Depression, Motivation, Etc.

[pullingthrough]

Hi everyone,

I am dealing with what I know is a somewhat common problem among doctoral students: loss of motivation, energy, etc. I am finishing up coursework in my program and will soon be pulling together my exams committee, but after I qualify, I will undertake another 3-4 long years of dissertation writing and research. I am in a social science field at a top-ranked university and have been been fortunate enough to receive fellowships and awards, in addition to the enthusiastic mentoring by dedicated advisers. But I find long days spent reading, writing, and researching difficult, and I often come home barely able to beat back tears because my life feels so detached from anything concrete and my work often feels meaningless. I thought I went into this field with eyes wide open because many of my friends were advanced graduate students, and I had seen them go through the difficulties of qualifying exams, research, grant-writing, and dissertation-writing. But I didn't anticipate the feeling of insignificance that would come with years of doing the abstract, intangible work of research and reading. My recently-conceived dissertation project excites me and my advisers and I feel it is relevant work, but when I think that all it will come to is a book that few will read, published more than 10 years from now (if I'm lucky) and that I may spend years in precarious, low-paying lectureships, I feel hopeless. Watching the advanced graduate students in my department go through the unpredictable, exhausting, discouraging process of job searches leaves me incredibly depressed.

I used to think that I wanted to become a professor, but given my reaction to the first few years of academic work, I realize that it is not the right career for me. I am trying to decide how I should go about leaving academia, and when. I am 28, and have had skilled, full-time positions before, but given the state of the economy and the fact that I am two years out of the workforce, I don't have illusions that finding rewarding work would be easy. I'm trying to decide if I should try to finish orals, and then take a leave of absence to find work; try to find a suitable position over the summer (at great cost to my research plans); or stick it out and try to at least embark upon my dissertation while interning or working part time in a position that could hopefully turn into full time work (hopefully in government or a non-profit associated with my field). I think that given my interests, the best compromise would be to get a professional masters degree, but I hesitate to again apply for and enter graduate school given my experience thus far. I was relatively happy as a beginning professional, and I look forward to doing collaborative work, with structured time, deadlines, and tangible goals. I also am confused about how to ask for help (if at all) from advisers or other professors at school.

I'm sorry this is long-winded. I would appreciate any insights or advice from those with similar experiences or knowledge of such transitions.

[rising_star]

Check out versatilephd.com.

[Nerd_For_Life]

Is there a help centre or (guidance?) counselling centre at the university you attend that you aid you? Sometimes taking a break can help you refresh, gain perspective, and aid you in determining what you could do that would be a better fit. Volunteer work is also a great way to gain experience in different fields and try to get a feel for if it's something that would be interesting to you in the long haul.

[stell4]

Probably something you already know, but if you can, exercise.

For me it only takes about a few days in a row of forcing myself to get out side (even in horrible weather) and hike, bike, walk... anything. I think it can be useful to try to find/remember that there's more to you life than school/work and force yourself to get out and find things you enjoy. I've been having some similar issues with depression, but surrounding my job. It was really tough, but I found once I starting forcing myself to get out and do things (aside from getting home and sitting on the couch all night with the excuse I was unwinding) it helped me get out of the doldrums and gain a little more insight about my situation, for me, deciding to go back to school. I still dread work every day as I am counting down the days to go back to school, but as long as I keep my self busy out side of work I feel a bit better about my current situation.

I hope you find something that works well for you soon

[avicus]

Probably something you already know, but if you can, exercise.

For me it only takes about a few days in a row of forcing myself to get out side (even in horrible weather) and hike, bike, walk... anything. I think it can be useful to try to find/remember that there's more to you life than school/work and force yourself to get out and find things you enjoy. I've been having some similar issues with depression, but surrounding my job. It was really tough, but I found once I starting forcing myself to get out and do things (aside from getting home and sitting on the couch all night with the excuse I was unwinding) it helped me get out of the doldrums and gain a little more insight about my situation, for me, deciding to go back to school. I still dread work every day as I am counting down the days to go back to school, but as long as I keep my self busy out side of work I feel a bit better about my current situation.

I hope you find something that works well for you soon

I totally agree. I had minor depression for 4 months (causes are irrelevant to this post), and each time someone urged me to go out and exercise, I would be like "don't you have any better advice?? Something that will actually solve my problem??"- my point being that I didn't think it would help me much.

But, when I did go out, even just for a 30-minute walk, I would invariably feel better, regardless of what was on my mind before. Conclusion? Endorphins do work!

Just my 2 cents worth. Hang in there!

[avicus]

Sorry about the question marks, it was my $&@ ! phone.

[ATart84]

It's true endorphins will help. Another thing that may help is meditation. I have found that meditation can improve your outlook on every day life. Set apart 15-30 minutes for yourself each day. Meditation can be relaxing and enlightening. It completely changes your perspective.

Do some research on breathing exercises and focus on clearing your thoughts. Some people choose to listen to music, others prefer a guided meditation. Me? I like to sit or lay silently and breathe. I am careful to clear my mind and avoid focusing on issues that come to mind. Those few short minutes will literally refresh you.

[StrangeLight]

the OP is not looking for ways to be less depressed. he/she is looking for ways to leave graduate school. i appreciate the intentions of some of the responders here, but i think it's skirting the issue a little.

most of the people that drop out of my program do so after their qualifying exams. they struggle through all of the coursework, the comps, the theses, the dissertation proposals, the grant writing, and once they're finally on their own, focused on the research, they leave. and that is totally fine. there is something that can be very unsatisfying about the intangible nature of academic work, particularly for people with plenty of experience in work environments that bring about concrete, material results.

i'd say, before trying to find a way out of the program, think about where else you would like to go. if you want to get into NGO or government consulting, a PhD in a social science field can actually go a long way. dreading the pointlessness of being a professor (perceived or otherwise) does not necessarily mean the PhD won't help you in the long term. working for government agencies, NGOs, archives, libraries, museums, thinktanks, academic or non-academic presses, and a million other things are all possibilities with the PhD. if you can reorient your goals towards something you want to do, and the degree is still part of that, you may find renewed energy to finish.

if the actual work of doing the research and writing for the dissertation is too much for you, even with the new career goals, then talk to your school's career counselors, your advisor, and the director of grad studies for your department about your desire to walk away. unfortunately, a lot of people in academia see the desire to leave it as a sign of failure. you may face this, but ignore it. the more ambitious or successful a professor is, the less personally satisfied they seem to be. the academe they so cherish is full of thankless work and minimal free time. it's not a bad thing to not want that. but before you decide to drop out of your program altogether, think about where you'd rather be. you may find that finishing the PhD will still help you get there. as for how to begin the conversation about leaving, just do it. make an appointment with your advisor and tell him/her your concerns. depending on how sympathetic he/she is, then go to your DGS.

Edited March 29, 2012 by StrangeLight

[pullingthrough]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all of this advice. While Strangelight is right--I am, at this point, trying to figure out if and how to leave my program rather than how to survive the next 4-5 years--I appreciate the tips about exercise and counseling. I actually have gone to a counselor about my depression in grad school, and doing so has made me realize that this really simply may not be for me. But it's great advice and I appreciate everyone's inputs.

Strangelight, I know you are right: my degree may be useful to my career whether or not I become a professor. Ideally, I think that I would put myself in a situation where I was doing a dissertation geared toward a non-academic career with the blessings of my advisers, while also spending my summers or something interning/working/training for a non-professorial job. But I worry about my professors' possible reactions. I don't fear them being dismissive so much as being less inclined to serve on a committee, give as much time, etc., to someone leaving the field (I can see them thinking: What's the point?). Perhaps its an unreasonable fear, but I wonder what I would do in their shoes....

In any case, I really appreciate your insights and your stories about those who have left in your field. If you don't mind me asking: do you keep up with them? Are they happy / successful? Are they happy with their decision?

Thanks again for your help.

Edited March 30, 2012 by pullingthrough

[StrangeLight]

universally, those that have left willingly (rather than being kicked out) have been happy with their decisions. they were happy the moment they decided to leave academia. you don't realize that you've never seen someone be happy or smile until they finally do it. it's been transformative and largely positive for all of the ones i know of (admittedly, my institutional memory is short, since i've only been in grad school for 3 years).

successful is another matter, largely left to interpretation. many have gone on to teach high school (or lecturing at local colleges, without a PhD) and they thoroughly enjoy it. since teaching was their favourite part of the graduate school experience, i think this was a successful transition for them. i also know of a few who had always intended to move towards public history fields, and they now work in museums or university presses. their salary is higher than what assistant professors would receive, and they get their evenings and weekends back. the person at the academic press even gets to stay on top of cutting edge research and advocate for projects she believes in. while she lacks the institutional support to do her own research (sabbaticals, internal research funds at her institution), she still engages in research, albeit at a slower pace, without the pressure of the tenure clock. she's definitely happy, working at one of the top university presses, period.

i don't think your fears regarding your professors' disinterest in supporting someone who wishes to leave academia are overblown. i think they're pretty well founded. even with the AHA advocating that history programs seriously prepare students for non-academic jobs (and not just as an alternative to professorship, but as their first choice, if that's what they want), a lot of profs are still resistant to investing themselves in students who will leave academia. professors build their own reputations on the success of their advisees as much as on their own work. many will no doubt tell you that they're disappointed by your decision or try to convince you to go on the job market and give being a prof a chance. that will be hard to navigate. i don't know of any people personally that said, while in grad school, "i want to do non-academic work with my PhD." they usually turned in that direction after they came up empty-handed on the job market.

there's a website called beyond academe (i don't remember the URL) that had a lot of stories on the happiness and success of students that opted to leave academia but still work in a field related to their PhD. that might be a good place for you to make contact with people who have made the move you wish to. my experience with this board is that it's full of current graduate students and undergrads, but is pretty light on posters who have their PhDs. the chronicle of higher education's forums would be another place to visit for advice on this.

good luck!

[sam_1]

I really think that given how much work you've already put in, and that your dissertation project is exciting, your PhD is worth 'fighting for', although

not at the expense of your happiness and well being. Getting the PhD will certainly put you in a better position, in terms of securing a job and

a (hopefully) decent salary - and pulling through will avoid a great big hole in your CV.

Therefore, I think it would be best to firstly get to a point where you can take some time out, maybe travel and get a fresh perspective on things. You

do not necessarily need to commit to returning from the leave of absence (which there is no shame in taking - they must just deal with it).

Also, in my country, it is very common for PhD students to work part time - usually in a related field - while pursuing their graduate work over

an extended period. This tends to lend a sense of purpose amidst all the abstract uncertainty, the life experience often provides valuable insight and skills which actually help with the research, and of course the income is useful. You need to be honest with your supervisor and potential employers, and

negotiate terms most conducive to you being able to balance work and research.

[rising_star]

There is a lot of great discussion about whether or not to finish (and people sharing their experiences about what they chose and why) available on the main forum over at versatilephd.com. I really do suggest you head over there and check out the relevant posts.

[pullingthrough]

Thanks again for all the great advice. I've spent some time on Versatile PhD and Beyond Academe and both have definitely given me some ideas. I think that I'll speak with one of the career counselors at my school regarding dual-degree program possibilities that would steer me towards nonacademic jobs, or at least help me look competitive with people that didn't take 6 years (or more) out of their work history. And perhaps speaking with a few people that have made similar transitions will help me understand how to approach this delicate situation with my professors. Thanks again for all of the advice.

[sam_1]

For interest, what are the latest stats for completion of PhDs - by discipline/faculty, age, part vs full time etc?

[avicus]

For interest, what are the latest stats for completion of PhDs - by discipline/faculty, age, part vs full time etc?

For interest, what are the latest stats for completion of PhDs - by discipline/faculty, age, part vs full time etc?

Check out the latest NRC rankings at www.nap.edu/rdp