Do You Feel You Deserve a Reason for Rejection?

[misterpat]

Hate to tell you but the recession is tied to policies set up in 1997 and 1998 so in reality it wasn't bushes fault but clintons

I'll bet you play the "all of Clinton's successes are attributable to the policies of Reagan" card all the time, too.

[fields&charts]

For the reasons based on improvement to future applications, I completely agree with the need for a reason. When I applied several years ago to a program at UC-Davis, I actually got a fairly candid email from the director of the program in addition to their checklist style rejection letter (I believe some people mentioned it on here and said that they all said the same thing, mine actually cited my statement and LORs as the issue, not my writing sample or lack of "competitiveness" as others have mentioned). Basically, in addition to submitting a fairly half-baked LOR, 2 of my 3 recommenders did worse than write negative letters. They simply hand wrote illegible, meaningless garbage and mailed it in. I obviously don't know what was in them, but I at least got some hints as to whom not to ask the next time around and some constructive criticism regarding what sort of sample to submit for writing (basically my writing sample kept me in the running, but the fact that my LORs were "the worst they'd seen in 20 years" and the fact that the sample was on a fairly well written about subject didn't help at all).

This time around I know I solved at least two of those problems, but I'm still looking at 1 definite rejection, 2 most likely rejections, and two who knows schools. After I give up unless I get some sort of amazing feedback from somewhere that urges me to try again.

[inactive_since_inf]

... They simply hand wrote illegible, meaningless garbage and mailed it in ... the fact that my LORs were "the worst they'd seen in 20 years" ....

Long live MacBook , true type fonts and digital computers ... :roll: :| :roll:

[sleepingkitty]

Yes. I do feel like I deserve a reason for rejection, because I'm a strong candidate academically, professionally and personality trait wise. My question to them: So what did you not see in my app that you would like to see next time to make me stand out more to ultimately be accapted?

[Jakrabite]

I think if they start providing reasons along with rejections the process will take longer and cause more anxiety. I'd rather have them reply at the earliest with the result. 70-80 bucks should at least guarantee a timely response.

[djrg]

I think if they start providing reasons along with rejections the process will take longer and cause more anxiety. I'd rather have them reply at the earliest with the result. 70-80 bucks should at least guarantee a timely response.

I'm with you in that one... However, it seem timely responses are everything we are not getting...

[cara susanna]

You can't blame the current economy on just one person: Clinton, Bush, and especially Congress all played a role in it.

Anyway, I'm probably only going to ask the schools where I got interviews.

[rufzilla]

Honestly, although I would like reasons for rejections, I don't think that any student "deserves" a reason. Those reasons are usually entirely subjective, unless you got cut simply because of test scores or GPA. Also, in the case of the latter, if the applicant is rejected s/he should simply work on improving those quantitative aspects of their application. When dealing with LoRs, SoPs, and samples I think that it would simply be too time consuming and tedious for the graduate committees to deal with. You paid them to review their app and they do -- after that they have no obligation to you and certainly no obligation to explain themselves. Moreover, I also agree with previous postings that the subjective nature of graduate decisions could lead to legal issues for the department if people were to find be given detailed reasons about their rejection.

I guess, in the end, if an applicant is rejected it is their responsibility as an aspiring scholar to simply improve their applications in all aspects. Is it hard to figure out if you were rejected because of "fit?" Absolutely. But, I think that it's the applicants duty after rejection to further research the school and try to figure that out. Is there room for improvement in all applications? Yes (unless you're God, which I don't think you are). If you are rejected I think it's good and I encourage others to ask their department if they can receive reasons, but I don't believe that any applicant, no matter how much you pay in app fees, "deserves" anything other than acceptance/ rejection at the end of the process. If departments are unwilling to tell you the reason, and I feel they have every right to do so, it is simply the responsibility of the applicant to work hard, raise their GPA and GREs, edit their SoPs and samples, and talk to their LoR writers about where they may have gone wrong.

Furthermore, I think that if you were to get a rejection letter from a school and found out the reason was simply "not enough slots" or something to that effect then people would just end up resting on their laurels and thinking that there is no reason for improvement. As potential scholars we should all work hard, no matter what -- which is why I don't feel a "reason for rejection" is super dooper important.

[glasses]

I agree with rufzilla, actually. I'd want to know, desperately, and I'd try to talk to anyone I'd known before the application process about what my weaknesses could have been. I'd probably also send out an e-mail asking the schools if I could get some explanation. However, I really don't think I'd deserve a reason. I'd deserve having my application looked at and evaluated to the best of the committees' capabilities, but beyond that, a reason would be a luxury. A great one, and possibly a helpful one, but one nonetheless.

[waitingtoexhale]

I also agree with rufzilla and glasses. I think it would be helpful to know why I was rejected by a particular school, but I don't think I am entitled to or deserve a thorough explanation. But I also think it doesn't hurt to ask, especially if you plan on reapplying to the same program in a subsequent year with a stronger bid. But if you have already gained admittance at another program and plan on beginning your studies there this fall, I think it's best to move forward without looking back. There's more than enough work to do in preparation for future study.

[dpileofashes]

Considering the high cost of applying- I do think there should be a reason. Graduate school applications are far more refined than undergraduate apps and obviously there are fewer to review- I do not see why departments don't offer a reason for rejection. Although this was not the case with my graduate applications, I was heartbroken after the rejection I received from the Fulbright in January- although there was no application fee, I felt considering the caliber of applications and the time spent I felt the rejection reason should have been revealed.

Anyhow- best of luck with application news!

[Await]

No. At least not for master's.

When PhD applicants are rejected, I think the onus is on the professor they've been talking with to shed some light on the situation, but as a courtesy/act of human kindness/empathy for the experience, not because it's required. If a professor doesn't take the time to do that, maybe you wouldn't have wanted to work with them anyway.

I think the fees we pay are in line with how much time and work happens behind the scenes, not even for each of our individual applications, but to keep the whole system running. As others have pointed out, feedback would only slow down the operation even more. In addition, feedback would have to be standardized/fair, so in the end you'd be likely to get some point calculation which would then reveal more than the admissions committee would like about the process, probably including the fact that it is, to a certain degree, arbitrary. It seems like almost every program has more qualified applicants than they can admit.

For example: When my dad applied to veterinary school he was rejected from his top choice (he had even moved to that state and lived there for a year to establish residency and increase his chances. He also had great grades from Columbia and operating experience). He was shocked when he was rejected and actually got a meeting with the dean. The dean said, "I can't give you a reason why you were rejected because there isn't one. You're perfectly well qualified. We just have a small number of spaces compared to the number of people that deserve them. It's a crapshoot at that point." And then apparently he mimed piles of applications and randomly plucking a few from them.

Plus, it's a valuable exercise to go over your application and reflect about the fit with your school. If you know the fit was right and your application wasn't lacking, then console yourself with anecdotes like this about what an arbitrary, imperfect process it is and apply again. If you realize you could improve upon your application or even that the fit was wrong, well then you've have had a valuable exercise in self-reflection and in small way, you've benefited from the rejection (or even gotten what you deserved).

As an aside: Are application fees tax deductible? That would be a nice salve if they could at least be treated like a donation to the school.

[returntoinnocence]

The reason for a reject pops in your mind mainly when you see a lower profile getting an admit !!! :x

You feel like ripping the committee off and ask them the reason. At the same time I feel things like SOP et all matters a lot & not everything is as simple as it looks. but that makes me wonder, what are the hefty application fees for?