PhD-Undergrad Consensual Relationship

[Wannabe Dr.]

Ok guys, need your feedback on this one! A PhD student at my university has entered in a consensual romantic relationship with an undergraduate student. There is no supervisory/TA dynamics involved watsoever. The school does not have an official or unofficial policy about relationships between faculty and students. We have looked at the policies of some other schools, but they vary greatly.

So what's your take - should the PhD student voluntarily disclose the information, and if so, to whom (Chair, who also happens to be supervisor, Dean of faculty, Dean of Grad studies, other?)

Cheerio!

[fuzzylogician]

If there is no teaching/advising relationship between the grad student and the undergrad, I don't see why they need to disclose their relationship to anyone. Why would it be any of the university's business?

[Wannabe Dr.]

From what we've read it could be perceived as a conflict of interest (same department, so there could be the 'perception' that the undergrad student is getting help from the grad student on assignments, etc)

[fuzzylogician]

I still don't see the problem. How can there be a conflict of interests if there is no official relationship between them?

I'm sure that there are general academic integrity guidelines at your university (as well as individual policies for some classes) and they will explain what kind of collaboration and/or assistance is allowed on assignments. Should an undergrad also be compelled to disclose that they have hired a tutor for help with particular subjects, or that they got a friend to proofread their paper, or if their best friend is ahead of them in the program? This is a general issue of what kind of help is considered appropriate and what isn't - it has to do with disclosing a romantic relationship.

[ktel]

With no supervisory/TA dynamics, there is no conflict of interest, and no need to disclose. My university's policy is that they have no business telling you who you can or can not date, but they do require you report a conflict of interest so that it may be dealt with.

[Wannabe Dr.]

Makes sense. The only thing I've been able to find at my uni is the fact that PhD students are considered like 'academic staff', but I think it has more to do about departmental responsibilities (i.e., organizing public lectures, assisting with conferences, etc.).

Any other takes?

[TakeruK]

If the grad student eventually becomes a TA in course where the undergrad is enrolled, then the grad student should disclose this information to the professor of the course only. It's likely that the graduate coordinator (or whoever arranges TAships) would have to be involved too. But the minimum level of information that has to be exchanged is that the grad student should say to the prof that they have a conflict of interest in TAing this course (do not have to explain why and you don't have to name the undergrad student). That information should be enough for the prof and the TA to request a transfer. Similarly, if the undergrad student eventually ends up in the same research group as the PhD student, then it would be a good idea to inform the supervisor of the group. But this exchange would be a "FYI" -- it shouldn't affect whether or not the student is allowed to work in the same group.

There's no need to inform even the department head, and definitely no one in the Graduate School / University admin level should care. Unless of course, there are regulations that explicitly say you have to, but I would be very surprised to see anything like that.

PhD students might have "admin" duties, such as those you mentioned, but they are not faculty members. In my experience, relationships between a new PhD student and a senior undergraduate is pretty common.

Also, not to be personally attacking you, but if you're not involved in this relationship, it shouldn't be your business either. Perhaps one of the people in the relationship asked you to find more information for them. I'm not assuming that you're prying (maybe you are in the relationship and just asking as a third party to maintain anonymity) but I am just stating that no one else needs to worry about this other than those involved in the relationship.

[Eigen]

I'm with TakeruK- if you aren't one of the people in the relationship, it's none of your business, and not really worth taking the time to think about/look into.

Different universities have different policies, but all of the ones I've seen that "forbid" the relationships are very specific and explicit about what is allowed, and the requirements (reporting, etc). If your school doesn't have such explicit policies, it's probably not explicitly forbidden.

And as has been mentioned, as long as there's no direct supervisory role, it's not a direct conflict of interest (grading, lab supervision, etc).

[Wannabe Dr.]

Just looking for information, not prying on someone's life, the information was voluntarily disclosed by the individual with the purpose of seeking feedback from a fellow student/friend (particularly given the absence of such policy at the university)

[amandacarol1215]

I'm currently in a PhD program and dating an undergrad in a different field (school psychology and kinesiology) and I really see it no one's business. I have no intention of disclosing the information to anyone at the school. Of course, if he ended up in a class I was TA-ing for, that would be a different matter, but just as a relationship, I don't see the problem.

[Dal PhDer]

What I look like when I think about dating an undergrad:

hehehe...I kid!

In all honesty, and I said it on another recent thread on here, my personal life is none of my department's/supervisor's business..UNLESS...it puts me, my work, and/or my school/department/advisor in a compromising situation (e.g., TAing my partner).

Edited August 11, 2012 by Dal PhDer

[BrokenRecord]

What I look like when I think about dating an undergrad:

hehehe...I kid!

In all honesty, and I said it on another recent thread on here, my personal life is none of my department's/supervisor's business..UNLESS...it puts me, my work, and/or my school/department/advisor in a compromising situation (e.g., TAing my partner).

Lol! Precisely...two different dynamics. Personally I wouldn't do it unless the two are in completely separate departments; and even then I don't particularly see the rationale. PhD students believe it or not do hold a position of power, authority and influence in a department especially relative to an undergraduate student. There is a sense of responsibility that should be upheld not only for the protection of the u-grad student, but mainly for that of the doctoral student. Though the nature of the job is academic, it is still a workplace environment and all that comes along with it.

[TakeruK]

In general, I could not see myself dating an undergrad (my wife would kill me anyways, lol) but not all undergrads are "traditional students". For example, although it didn't happen, in an alternate universe where we made some different choices about education, my wife and I could be attending the same university right now, with her as a 3rd year undergrad and me as a PhD student (we're only 1 year apart in age).

But that's a personal decision either way -- some people might prefer a older/younger partner. The usual argument against undergrad/graduate student relationship is maturity, but everyone has different maturity levels anyways. Whether or not to date an undergrad is just personal preference.

PhD students collectively do hold a position of influence in a department -- sometimes hiring decisions, course changes, etc. consider graduate student input, usually from the Student Council or some related body. However, a single PhD student usually has little effect on the life of an undergraduate student, unless that PhD student is a TA or research supervisor of said undergrad.

If you name a random undergrad in the same department (even in the same sub-field), I do not see how my peers and I (in Canada, pretty much all PhD students are MSc students in their first 1-2 years) can directly influence the (academic) life of that undergrad if we were not their TA or research supervisor. We could potentially have indirect influence, if for example, I am a bad person and my friend, who is also a bad person, is the TA of Undergrad X, I could get my friend to grade Undergrad X unfairly. Or maybe the professor of Undergrad X is also a bad person and I can get the professor to grade Undergrad X unfairly. But these scenarios all involve another unscrupulous individual. And this can all happen without a relationship between Undergrad X and me -- maybe we are on the same recreational club, maybe X frequents the same coffee shop as me and is a big jerk so I don't like X, etc.

It would be unreasonable to require PhD students to investigate every possible avenue of conflict of interest of every undergrad student in the department. Similarly, it would be unreasonable to require PhD students to avoid any contact with undergrad students (although many of us will do this anyways ). Due diligence by the PhD student usually means reporting direct conflict of interest situations. For example, if I was dating one of the students in the class I am TAing, or if I am being paid to privately tutor one of my students in the same subject of the class I am TAing.

Otherwise, sure there are other minor conflicts of interests. I might be good friends with one of my students due to a hobby outside of school. They could be a cousin, or a younger sibling of a good friend, a family friend, etc. (I would probably inform my TA supervisor about any relatives in my class but I wouldn't bring it up as a conflict of interest requiring me to transfer). However, as professionals, we are expected to handle these situations accordingly. In academia, we will be constantly put in minor conflict of interest situations. Senior graduate students sometimes TA graduate classes and have to mark our peers. A senior graduate student might be employed as a Teaching Fellow/Adjunct and be in charge of other graduate students (as their TAs). We might be asked to peer review a journal article by a rival group. And so on.