SAIS application for Fall 2013

[riverguide]

Yep - they discussed employment rates...93% for class of 2012 6 months after graduation.  Talked a lot about career classes and workshops and that they have 17 'treks' around the globe to meet with potential employers.  As has been talked about extensively here, there was mention that the big 3 consulting firms don't really recruit on campus, but a good number of graduates find work in more niche consulting companies.  If I heard it right, 47% of 2012 class reported a job in the private sector, 19% non-profit, 18% public, 12% in intl organizations like EU, UN, World Bank, etc.

 

There was some talk about internship opportunities as well -- students are discouraged from interning first semester regardless of campus.  After that, Bologna is more of an "academic city" so few have internships off campus, but some DC students do find outside work.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Thanks for the update. I actually wrote in my job app that I thought the first semester would be problematic. The keys to post-grad employment, IMHO, are the summer internships. Most of the public sector summer internships involve fall application deadlines.

[Revolution]

Yep - they discussed employment rates...93% for class of 2012 6 months after graduation.  Talked a lot about career classes and workshops and that they have 17 'treks' around the globe to meet with potential employers.  As has been talked about extensively here, there was mention that the big 3 consulting firms don't really recruit on campus, but a good number of graduates find work in more niche consulting companies.  If I heard it right, 47% of 2012 class reported a job in the private sector, 19% non-profit, 18% public, 12% in intl organizations like EU, UN, World Bank, etc.

 

There was some talk about internship opportunities as well -- students are discouraged from interning first semester regardless of campus.  After that, Bologna is more of an "academic city" so few have internships off campus, but some DC students do find outside work.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Thanks for this summary. It was quite helpful.

 

Did they give any detail on what type of treks they went on? Were these all geared towards public sector/government or were any of them oriented towards say finance?

 

Do any private sector firms actually recruit on campus, or do they merely post jobs in the sais job board?

 

I e-mailed admissions office, but they were very unhelpful with these specific questions.

[riverguide]

Thanks for this summary. It was quite helpful.

 

Did they give any detail on what type of treks they went on? Were these all geared towards public sector/government or were any of them oriented towards say finance?

 

Do any private sector firms actually recruit on campus, or do they merely post jobs in the sais job board?

 

I e-mailed admissions office, but they were very unhelpful with these specific questions.

 

I am attending a NSEP job fair next week at SAIS (DC). It is for both NSEP recipients and those attending SAIS. Both private and public sector recruiters set up booths at these events. Private interviews are also conducted. This particular one is geared towards jobs involving the Middle East. FYI Revolution, there are many well educated women who attend these and they don't suffer fools easily... 

Edited March 18, 2013 by riverguide

[Revolution]

I am attending a NSEP job fair next week at SAIS (DC). It is for both NSEP recipients and those attending SAIS. Both private and public sector recruiters set up booths at these events. Private interviews are also conducted. This particular one is geared towards jobs involving the Middle East. FYI Revolution, there are many well educated women who attend these and they don't suffer fools easily... 

 

What's NSEP? Is there by any chance a listing of the firms coming to the job fair?

[dyavrom]

during the webinar thing i asked about the employers that recruit at the Hopkins career fair.  they said they will send it over so ill post that up when  they do. 

[ivydreams3]

If I end up choosing SAIS, I will try to pass the waiver exam for at least one of those in the summer and I'm also wondering if it's feasible to take the exam for one of those cour courses (IR theory class comes to mind) by studying independently for the exam in the summer. Like you, I definitely would like to have more space for electives.

 

I'm wondering the same thing. I'd love to make room to have a double specialization or possibly double concentration with one specialization. The ability to learn more quantitative methods is an important criteria for me. Does anyone know anyone who has passed the waiver exam for the IR theory? I've taken so many IR theory-related courses in undergrad I am hoping it would be possible. But I'm not sure how intense the exam might be. Also hoping to take the waiver exam for intermediate macroeconomics since I have taken that class already. Anyone have any insight or speculations as to what these exams might be like?

[ivydreams3]

during the webinar thing i asked about the employers that recruit at the Hopkins career fair.  they said they will send it over so ill post that up when  they do. 

 

That would be so helpful, thank you!

[JFactor]

I'm wondering the same thing. I'd love to make room to have a double specialization or possibly double concentration with one specialization. The ability to learn more quantitative methods is an important criteria for me. Does anyone know anyone who has passed the waiver exam for the IR theory? I've taken so many IR theory-related courses in undergrad I am hoping it would be possible. But I'm not sure how intense the exam might be. Also hoping to take the waiver exam for intermediate macroeconomics since I have taken that class already. Anyone have any insight or speculations as to what these exams might be like?

 

I checked your stats and it seems that we are very similar in terms of our background and interests. Quantitative methods are very important for me as well. I'm going to ask SAIS these questions a little later when I know about all my decisions and when they're probably a little more available, but if anyone has any info about the waiver exams sooner, don't be afraid to share!

[nason]

Thanks for this summary. It was quite helpful.

 

Did they give any detail on what type of treks they went on? Were these all geared towards public sector/government or were any of them oriented towards say finance?

 

Do any private sector firms actually recruit on campus, or do they merely post jobs in the sais job board?

 

I e-mailed admissions office, but they were very unhelpful with these specific questions.

 

When the question of who specifically attends the career fairs, they just seemed to point to the employment statistics/current jobs without a definite answer as to who is on campus.  No one asked directly about finance, but they did mention that several Asian banks are big players in terms of potential employers and I believe they said they are visited on the HK/Shanghai trek.

 

Your second question is a good one...I think the answer is yes, but clearly not as much/often as on an MBA's campus.  Also mentioned that someone looking at strategy consulting, for instance, might want to look at a dual degree with wharton/tuck/insead.  And as for the job board, they talked about it being very extensive...and mentioned that 'virtual networking' is important.  Seemed to imply a good amount of networking might be necessary on our parts and not just handed to us on campus.

[Pinkman]

Thanks for this summary. It was quite helpful.

 

Did they give any detail on what type of treks they went on? Were these all geared towards public sector/government or were any of them oriented towards say finance?

 

Do any private sector firms actually recruit on campus, or do they merely post jobs in the sais job board?

 

I e-mailed admissions office, but they were very unhelpful with these specific questions.

 

I'd give them a call so they can't avoid the direct question. When I asked for details a while back, I initially tried via email but didnt really get an answer. 

[jm08]

FYI for people who want to take the intermediate microexam; from the legacy SAIS website:

 

 

The Microeconomics waiver exam will include material from the following areas:

Supply and Demand; Utility Functions; Budget Constraints; Derivation of Demand Curves; Substitution and Income Effect; Consumer and Producer Surplus; Market Demand and Elasticity; Productions and Cost Functions; Perfect Competition;  Monopoly and Oligopoly; Multimarket Equilibruim; Asymmetric Information; Externalities; Public Goods; Bargaining, Efficiency, and the Coase Theorem; Basic Game Theory.

 

Some text books to consider for review are:

 

Intermediate Microeconomics, by Varian, latest edition, Norton
Microeconomics, by Pindyck & Rubinfeld, latest edition, Pearson
Microeconomics, by Katz & Rosen, latest edition, McGraw-Hill.

 

I believe it's microeconomics with (basic) calculus. If you have an economics background the above topics are pretty straight-forward. Also, there are a number of great sites -- check out resources posted by MIT Econ PhDs for problem sets and other refresher material. I am not going to be stuck in DC for the summer. Hell. No.

[jm08]

FYI -- I suggest using Varian; it's generally considered to be one of the better books to use if you're going the self-study route. Good deals on Amazon and secondary book markets.

[riverguide]

What's NSEP?

 

http://www.google.com/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Education_Program

 

With regard to your question about who will be there; I will simply address those who will be there from the private sector (since that's your interest), namely, major DOD contractors will be there as well as major DOD think tanks and consulting firms. SAIS is extremely well thought of in these circles.

Edited March 18, 2013 by riverguide

[Revolution]

When the question of who specifically attends the career fairs, they just seemed to point to the employment statistics/current jobs without a definite answer as to who is on campus.  No one asked directly about finance, but they did mention that several Asian banks are big players in terms of potential employers and I believe they said they are visited on the HK/Shanghai trek.

 

Your second question is a good one...I think the answer is yes, but clearly not as much/often as on an MBA's campus.  Also mentioned that someone looking at strategy consulting, for instance, might want to look at a dual degree with wharton/tuck/insead.  And as for the job board, they talked about it being very extensive...and mentioned that 'virtual networking' is important.  Seemed to imply a good amount of networking might be necessary on our parts and not just handed to us on campus.

 

 

Thanks for this. Their response to who attends career fairs is a bit alarming. Do they just not want to divulge that info or do they simply not keep track of it? I asked these questions to Bahar in admissions office, and she told me to just look at the career placement info. Um, I know how to f*cking find a page. I need specific information that will help me make my decision in the coming weeks. It was maddening.

 

The career treks sound cool. I mean academically there's no question that SAIS is a better fit for me than HKS and with the fellowship it makes it a no brainer if i had to do policy alone. Hopefully i can get into an mba program and can do a joint degree or just mba.

 

Regarding your last paragraph, I am under no illusion that SAIS recruiting is anything like MBA. The difference is literally night and day. But if the companies i'm interested in at least post jobs in the board and there are alums at those firms who are open to helping me out, then i will just work my ass off for 2 years to get what i want. If i do go to SAIS, i imagine that i will have almost no social life and will be 110% obsessed with the job search.

[jm08]

@Revolution -- I don't think your time allocation will be that dramatic. You have plenty of opportunity throughout the year to do internships and meet people. DC culture is very networking-focused (obvi). Just find the one or two people who like you and know everyone else in your field and you'll be golden. Quality vs. quantity play. Plus, half your work is cut out for you because you know exactly what you want to do, which allows you to save a lot of time re: who you strategically target.

 

Plus, SAIS students do throw some of the best parties ...at least for DC anyway. I'm sure you can graduate with a drinking problem and a great job!  

[nason]

Thanks for this. Their response to who attends career fairs is a bit alarming. Do they just not want to divulge that info or do they simply not keep track of it? I asked these questions to Bahar in admissions office, and she told me to just look at the career placement info. Um, I know how to f*cking find a page. I need specific information that will help me make my decision in the coming weeks. It was maddening.

 

The career treks sound cool. I mean academically there's no question that SAIS is a better fit for me than HKS and with the fellowship it makes it a no brainer if i had to do policy alone. Hopefully i can get into an mba program and can do a joint degree or just mba.

 

Regarding your last paragraph, I am under no illusion that SAIS recruiting is anything like MBA. The difference is literally night and day. But if the companies i'm interested in at least post jobs in the board and there are alums at those firms who are open to helping me out, then i will just work my ass off for 2 years to get what i want. If i do go to SAIS, i imagine that i will have almost no social life and will be 110% obsessed with the job search.

 

Not positive...I'd be lying if I said I listened to every word as I had a few things going on at once, but I agree it's a bit alarming that it wasn't so straight forward.  I would think it's easy to compile a list of attendees (at least for the most recent fair) and publish.

 

It definitely sounded like alumni are very reachable and helpful and that they work all across the board in all sectors.  So if you're willing to hustle, as you say you are, I definitely think it can happen.

 

Regarding MBA...I've only recently started thinking about doubling up (clearly too late for this cycle).  Any idea what it's like to apply/pursue the joint degree after one is already enrolled at sais (or any of the other schools for that matter)?

[riverguide]

@Revolution -- I don't think your time allocation will be that dramatic. You have plenty of opportunity throughout the year to do internships and meet people. DC culture is very networking-focused (obvi). Just find the one or two people who like you and know everyone else in your field and you'll be golden. Quality vs. quantity play. Plus, half your work is cut out for you because you know exactly what you want to do, which allows you to save a lot of time re: who you strategically target.

 

Plus, SAIS students do throw some of the best parties ...at least for DC anyway. I'm sure you can graduate with a drinking problem and a great job!

 

I have found this to be very true -but attitude and approach are everything. The ability to deal with ambiguity is a strength that they commonly seek.

[dyavrom]

Can someone clarify the econ classes for me?  I already took lower and upper division micro and macro econ courses in undergrad and got A's and B's.  Do I still need to take the waiver exam? or am I already out of the class? or do I need to take it them again at SAIS.  Ideally I wouldn't so I can have more electives, but I dunno 

 

I am not sure where I stand and what I need to take

Edited March 18, 2013 by dyavrom

[Revolution]

Not positive...I'd be lying if I said I listened to every word as I had a few things going on at once, but I agree it's a bit alarming that it wasn't so straight forward.  I would think it's easy to compile a list of attendees (at least for the most recent fair) and publish.

 

It definitely sounded like alumni are very reachable and helpful and that they work all across the board in all sectors.  So if you're willing to hustle, as you say you are, I definitely think it can happen.

 

Regarding MBA...I've only recently started thinking about doubling up (clearly too late for this cycle).  Any idea what it's like to apply/pursue the joint degree after one is already enrolled at sais (or any of the other schools for that matter)?

 

 

In terms of the joint degree, you asked the $64,000 question, something i'm dying to know. If I don't get into mba this year i'm wondering if being a first-year at sais would help my chances, but from what i've gathered the answer is No. First, because sais is so much less selective than top b-schools, simply being at sais is not really going to help you. Also if you're not applying to one of the joint degree partners (wharton/insead/tuck/darden/stanford) they might wonder why you want an mba.

[jm08]

Anyone interested in joint-degree information, here you go:

• SAIS has formal programs with Wharton, Tuck, and INSEAD. The upside is that it's less of a hassle negotiating what credits count twice.
• You can apply to a MBA program during your first semester at SAIS; or vice-versa if you are already in at a MBA program.
• You have to do a full year at both institutions; the remaining year can be done in any order. 
• SAIS will generally accept "ad-hoc" arrangements with most high-ranked MBA programs.
• HBS and Darden do NOT allow you to do a dual-degree with schools outside their institution. If HBS is on your radar it will take 3.5 years.
• SAIS folks have done joint degrees with Stanford, Columbia, Sloan, Kellogg, Booth, Yale, and others.
• Strongly suggest you contact the MBA programs you are interested in to learn more about their policy toward joint degrees with outside institutions.
• It is generally smarter to do your first year at SAIS followed by 3 semesters at the MBA program to take advantage of the MBA recruitment season and summer internships. IF you are pursuing more of a private sector career. 
• Attending SAIS, to my knowledge, does not particularly help or harm your chances of acceptance at a MBA program.
• Wharton caps the # of dual-degree students at around 15, most years.
• Most schools accept the GRE, but I strongly encourage you to take the GMAT if you have the time or money to do so. GMAT math is considered much more difficult than the GRE, and includes "sentence correction" for the verbal portion. General wisdom is you should aim for 80 percent in both math and verbal; although a score of ~680 generally puts you in the running for top programs.

That's it off the top of my head. Message me if you want more specific details. Also -- you need to be able to make a strong case on why you need both degrees; what each program is going to offer you; and, a clear sense of how you want to divide the curriculum so that you're not wasting money taking the same class twice.

Edited March 18, 2013 by jm08

[Revolution]

@Revolution -- I don't think your time allocation will be that dramatic. You have plenty of opportunity throughout the year to do internships and meet people. DC culture is very networking-focused (obvi). Just find the one or two people who like you and know everyone else in your field and you'll be golden. Quality vs. quantity play. Plus, half your work is cut out for you because you know exactly what you want to do, which allows you to save a lot of time re: who you strategically target.

 

Plus, SAIS students do throw some of the best parties ...at least for DC anyway. I'm sure you can graduate with a drinking problem and a great job!

 

 

Fun DC parties? Lol. I guess you've never been to a hbs/wharton/kellogg/booth party. If you want to see real ballers, you gotta check out those parties, especially HBS. In my opinion, aside from celebrities, athletes, and insanely rich jetsetters, HBS students have the best social lives in America.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Revolution

[dyavrom]

My understanding of the economics requirements is as follows:

• People with minimal economics background need to take the "Principle" macro and micro courses
• People who scored 49 and above on their GMAT math are exempt; not sure about the GRE threshold (I took the GMAT)
• The AdCom takes into account your economics training via your transcript; so you are eligible to waive ALL 4 core classes if you received a B- or higher at your undergraduate institution
• My concentration (IDEV) requires all students to take intermediate microeconomics before classes start. This can be fulfilled via waiver, a summer class, or pre-term.
• Check out the SAIS legacy website (it's archived) for more specific for your individual situation. 

got it, thanks

[jm08]

@Revolution -- yes, like you, I have many friends at top MBA programs and have attended their parties. Hence my qualifier "for DC"; besides give me liquor and I can enjoy just about anybody's company.

[riverguide]

My understanding of the economics requirements is as follows:

• People with minimal economics background need to take the "Principle" macro and micro courses
• People who scored 49 and above on their GMAT math are exempt; not sure about the GRE threshold (I took the GMAT)
• The AdCom takes into account your economics training via your transcript; so you are eligible to waive ALL 4 core classes if you received a B- or higher at your undergraduate institution
• My concentration (IDEV) requires all students to take intermediate microeconomics before classes start. This can be fulfilled via waiver, a summer class, or pre-term.
• Check out the SAIS legacy website (it's archived) for more specific for your individual situation. 

 

I guess I'm confused. My admissions letter didn't indicate that I had to attend pre-term in Micro/Macro economics but I assumed that I had to take  intermediate classes in micro and macro in the pre-term because of the anecdotal posts that appeared in this site. I took Micro and Macro in two summer sessions at LSE. I'm in strategic studies. Has anyone in strategic studies addressed this with SAIS, yet? Did anyone else's admission letter indicate that their admission was contingent upon taking these? Mine didn't.

Edited March 18, 2013 by riverguide

[jm08]

Sorry for the confusion. If you have any requirements that you need to take before school starts they will be listed in your admissions letter. If you letter does not state anything specifically than I wouldn't be too concerned.

 

To break this down in a mini-chart:

 

Minimal economics background -- in some cases you will be required to take an introductory-level course so that you are prepared to take (intermediate) micro and macro at SAIS when school starts. There is also a math bootcamp available, too. Note -- SAIS does not call the classes intro or intermediary -- just micro and macro.

IDEV -- must take (intermediate) microeconomics during the summer. Counts toward your core requirements.

If you want a "head start" to free electives -- you can take micro or macro. I believe you can try to take trade theory or monetary policy (the other 2 required classes) depending on your background.

Waiver exams -- if you received a B- or higher in any of the 4 required courses than you can sit for the waiver exam at designated dates. You can only take the exam once. Trade theory and monetary policy are offered in the Spring only.

 

A typical student's schedule will have micro and macro in the fall; then trade theory and monetary policy in the spring. Note that micro and macro are pre-requisites for monetary policy and trade theory. After those 4 classes are complete you pick 2 electives. This is the minimum, many people take additional courses in one of the advanced tracks.  

 

This SAIS page should answer your questions: http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/academics/economics/ma-requirements/index.htm

 

If anything I wrote is wrong, please let me know so I can edit or delete this post. And, yes, I found the SAIS requirements to be a bit confusing because the class is so diverse in terms of backgrounds.

Edited March 18, 2013 by jm08