SAIS application for Fall 2013

[riverguide]

Sorry for the confusion. If you have any requirements that you need to take before school starts they will be listed in your admissions letter. If you letter does not state anything specifically than I wouldn't be too concerned.

 

For IDEV -- everyone has to take intermediate microeconomics regardless of their background. I only list that for others reading this post who were accepted into that concentration.

 

For some people their acceptance into SAIS is contingent upon passing certain courses if they have limited economics training. Many people take the summer or pre-term courses in order to free up electives during their first and second semester. Some use the summer as a "refresher" as a way of easing back into academia.

 

This SAIS page should answer your questions: http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/academics/economics/ma-requirements/index.htm

 

 

Thanks for all of the great info you have provided!

[jm08]

No problem -- I edited my post to double-check against the actual website. Gets a little confusing, but I believe that is accurate. If you are comfortable with economics and math, you may want to think about taking the waiver exams. You could potentially test out of 4 classes. I'm sure this is rare, but that's 25% (more or less) of your total courses in order to graduate! That frees up a lot of electives. And, it's only mid-March so you have plenty of time to study if you're disciplined.

 

I haven't seen any posts re: the difficulty of the micro or macro exams, unfortunately.

 

However, there is enough time to register for the waiver exam, which must be done in-person on the campus...if you fail -- no sweat -- you can always attend during the summer or pre-term. There are also "accelerated" versions of these courses, too. 

[nason]

Anyone interested in joint-degree information, here you go:

• SAIS has formal programs with Wharton, Tuck, and INSEAD. The upside is that it's less of a hassle negotiating what credits count twice.
• You can apply to a MBA program during your first semester at SAIS; or vice-versa if you are already in at a MBA program.
• You have to do a full year at both institutions; the remaining year can be done in any order. 
• SAIS will generally accept "ad-hoc" arrangements with most high-ranked MBA programs.
• HBS and Darden do NOT allow you to do a dual-degree with schools outside their institution. If HBS is on your radar it will take 3.5 years.
• SAIS folks have done joint degrees with Stanford, Columbia, Sloan, Kellogg, Booth, Yale, and others.
• Strongly suggest you contact the MBA programs you are interested in to learn more about their policy toward joint degrees with outside institutions.
• It is generally smarter to do your first year at SAIS followed by 3 semesters at the MBA program to take advantage of the MBA recruitment season and summer internships. IF you are pursuing more of a private sector career. 
• Attending SAIS, to my knowledge, does not particularly help or harm your chances of acceptance at a MBA program.
• Wharton caps the # of dual-degree students at around 15, most years.
• Most schools accept the GRE, but I strongly encourage you to take the GMAT if you have the time or money to do so. GMAT math is considered much more difficult than the GRE, and includes "sentence correction" for the verbal portion. General wisdom is you should aim for 80 percent in both math and verbal; although a score of ~680 generally puts you in the running for top programs.

That's it off the top of my head. Message me if you want more specific details. Also -- you need to be able to make a strong case on why you need both degrees; what each program is going to offer you; and, a clear sense of how you want to divide the curriculum so that you're not wasting money taking the same class twice.

 

Thanks for the helpful info here and regarding the econ requirements.  Might reach out directly via pm in the coming weeks.

[Revolution]

@Revolution -- yes, like you, I have many friends at top MBA programs and have attended their parties. Hence my qualifier "for DC"; besides give me liquor and I can enjoy just about anybody's company.

 

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, HBS parties are f*cking unreal. And knowing that the people you are getting wasted with will be the future leaders and tycoons of America makes it that much sweeter.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Revolution

[flyingjellyfish]

Thanks jm08 for the great info!  And here's what I've determined so far...

 

When I interviewed for the Bologna Center, the professor who interviewed me encouraged me to take econ during pre-term.  I followed up with him last week for more information...  The pre-term micro and macro courses are intermediate, graded as pass/no pass, and they do not count towards the 16 class total.  If you pass, then you have effectively tested out of either micro or macro, opening up room for more electives and easing your transition into SAIS due to the pass/no pass deal.  Personally, if I go to SAIS, I would take micro along with survival Italian in pre-term. I haven't taken economics beyond two Principles of Micro/Macro classes, so a pass/no pass start is appealing to me and would allow me to focus my energy on a different class during my first semester.  

 

None of this was listed in my admissions letter- it just stated that I'd passed the intro micro/macro requirement (yay!).

[Revolution]

I never took micro/macro so i have to take them through the sais online courses (which start in may) or somewhere else. I have to go back and check the details, but i think that means i can't do pre-term for econ since they're at the intermediate level.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Revolution

[jm08]

Yeah, it's important to make the distinction between introductory and intermediate.

 

Summary flow chart

 

Introductory courses (no credit; must take before you matriculate) --> Macro and Micro Intermediate (pre-term or fall; credit and required) --> Trade and Monetary (spring; credit and required) --> 2 electives --> Further specialization if desired.

 

So, depending on your circumstances you will either have to take the introductory stuff online; or, determine if you want to take summer or pre-term courses to free up electives. 

 

Below is the long-ass copy and paste job from the website:

 

All candidates for the M.A. degree must complete a concentration in the field of international economics. The concentration consists of a series of course requirements and economics electives.

 

Course requirements for the concentration in International Economics consist of three levels: (1) fundamental economic theory courses in microeconomics and macroeconomics, (2) core courses in international trade and monetary economics theory and (3) two additional elective economics courses offered through the International Economics Program.

 

To complete the first level, students must demonstrate knowledge of microeconomics and macroeconomics at the intermediate level. These are typically second-level courses. This can be done either by taking and passing the SAIS Microeconomics and Macroeconomics courses—during Pre-Term or during a regular academic term—or, if qualified, by passing waiver exams. All students must attempt the waiver exams for Microeconomics and Macroeconomics before their first semester at SAIS. For students with a stronger mathematics background and a deeper interest in economic theory, SAIS also offers accelerated versions of the Microeconomics and Macroeconomics courses (Microeconomics in Pre-Term; both courses in a regular academic term). These accelerated courses cover the same material taught in the regular courses but in more depth and at a quicker pace by greater emphasis on mathematical methods.

 

For the second level, students must demonstrate knowledge of international trade and monetary theory. This can be done either by taking and passing the International Trade Theory and International Monetary Theory courses during a regular academic term or, if qualified, by passing waiver exams.  All students must attempt the waiver exam in Trade and Monetary Theory before their second semester at SAIS. SAIS offers accelerated versions of the International Trade Theory and International Monetary Theory courses for students who have strong quantitative skills. These accelerated courses cover the same material taught in the regular courses during a regular academic term but are designed for highly motivated economics students and those with career interests in economics.

 

The third level requires students to choose from among the many elective courses offered in the International Economics Program. Students must pass at least two additional elective courses from the International Economics Program offerings. Many students choose to take more than the minimum, and the program offers an array of lecture and seminar classes in the areas of advanced theory, quantitative methods, international finance and development economics.

 

Students who pass the waiver exams for International Trade Theory and/or International Monetary Theory must take additional elective courses in their place. The minimum course requirement for the concentration, beyond Microeconomics and Macroeconomics, is four courses offered through the International Economics Program.

Edited March 18, 2013 by jm08

[ivydreams3]

To break this down in a mini-chart:

 

Minimal economics background -- in some cases you will be required to take an introductory-level course so that you are prepared to take (intermediate) micro and macro at SAIS when school starts. There is also a math bootcamp available, too. Note -- SAIS does not call the classes intro or intermediary -- just micro and macro.

IDEV -- must take (intermediate) microeconomics during the summer. Counts toward your core requirements.

If you want a "head start" to free electives -- you can take micro or macro. I believe you can try to take trade theory or monetary policy (the other 2 required classes) depending on your background.

Waiver exams -- if you received a B- or higher in any of the 4 required courses than you can sit for the waiver exam at designated dates. You can only take the exam once. Trade theory and monetary policy are offered in the Spring only.

 

A typical student's schedule will have micro and macro in the fall; then trade theory and monetary policy in the spring. Note that micro and macro are pre-requisites for monetary policy and trade theory. After those 4 classes are complete you pick 2 electives. This is the minimum, many people take additional courses in one of the advanced tracks.  

 

This SAIS page should answer your questions: http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/academics/economics/ma-requirements/index.htm

 

If anything I wrote is wrong, please let me know so I can edit or delete this post. And, yes, I found the SAIS requirements to be a bit confusing because the class is so diverse in terms of backgrounds.

 

Do you mean that the advanced micro (offered in pre-term) is a pre-req for monetary policy and trade theory? If so, is it possible to sort of get around the prereq requirement and take micro at the same time as monetary policy and trade theory in your first semester? Ideally, I would take micro in pre-term but I am sure there are some people who might not want to/won't be able to attend.

 

Also, thank you for all the help in clarifying the econ reqs.

Edited March 18, 2013 by ivydreams3

[jm08]

@ivydream3 -- that is a damn good question. I have no idea. SAIS may or may not have a firm policy on that type of arrangement. I suspect it will depend on your background and whether they've done that sort of thing in the past. Would love to hear what you find out.

 

And, yeah, micro and macro are pre-requisites for monetary theory and international trade, respectively.

Edited March 18, 2013 by jm08

[ivydreams3]

@ivydream3 -- that is a damn good question. I have no idea. SAIS may or may not have a firm policy on that type of arrangement. I suspect it will depend on your background and whether they've done that sort of thing in the past. Would love to hear what you find out.

 

And, yeah, micro and macro are pre-requisites for monetary theory and international trade, respectively.

 

Gotcha, I will definitely ask and let you guys know.

[Revolution]

I am attending a NSEP job fair next week at SAIS (DC). It is for both NSEP recipients and those attending SAIS. Both private and public sector recruiters set up booths at these events. Private interviews are also conducted. This particular one is geared towards jobs involving the Middle East. FYI Revolution, there are many well educated women who attend these and they don't suffer fools easily... 

 

Regarding your last sentence, easy there chief with the ad hominem attacks. If I do go to SAIS i'm pretty sure i'll be one of the smartest students there, so you should calm down a bit.

[riverguide]

Regarding your last sentence, easy there chief with the ad hominem attacks. If I do go to SAIS i'm pretty sure i'll be one of the smartest students there, so you should calm down a bit.

 

 The truth is always an absolute defense...but I'm starting to appreciate your humor.

Edited March 19, 2013 by riverguide

[Revolution]

The following thread from collegeconfidential a few years back was really interesting. I'm going to paste the part where a then-SAIS student is talking about the social scene.

 

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/286389-fletcher-vs-sais-3.html

 

"Another note to the social life issue. In greater DC, the SAIS crowd can be insular, and they have a rep for being really arrogant. But I have to believe a lot of that was also owing to prejudice. Once we went to a SAIS, American, GW, Georgetown event and a woman introduced herself to me and a SAIS classmate with a great opener: "I've heard you guys think your god's gift to the world." Well, I am a humble person, but that's not a way to build bridges or elicit the most respectful reaction, though I tried to give one. She pretty much ran away. Another time I was at a party talking to a woman, and after 10 minutes she asked me the DC "where'd you go to school?" question. When I said SAIS, she said "wow, you've got to be the first SAIS student I have met who's not an arrogant f***." I think there was a kernel of truth to this, but I also think that people got so happily absorbed meeting a lot of their interesting classmates, that they got wrapped up in the group and the experience and seemed really self-absorbed from the outside. It looks bad, but it's a good place to be."

 

 

Is this really true? Outside of DC pretty much no one knows SAIS, so a SAIS guy cannot use it to impress girls. In NYC or boston they would get humiliated by finance alpha males or HBS students/alums. Interesting to see whether the dynamic described in the post above really holds true in DC.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2013 by Revolution

[123seekay123]

Yeah, it's important to make the distinction between introductory and intermediate.

 

Summary flow chart

 

Introductory courses (no credit; must take before you matriculate) --> Macro and Micro Intermediate (pre-term or fall; credit and required) --> Trade and Monetary (spring; credit and required) --> 2 electives --> Further specialization if desired.

 

So, depending on your circumstances you will either have to take the introductory stuff online; or, determine if you want to take summer or pre-term courses to free up electives. 

 

Below is the long-ass copy and paste job from the website:

 

All candidates for the M.A. degree must complete a concentration in the field of international economics. The concentration consists of a series of course requirements and economics electives.

 

Course requirements for the concentration in International Economics consist of three levels: (1) fundamental economic theory courses in microeconomics and macroeconomics, (2) core courses in international trade and monetary economics theory and (3) two additional elective economics courses offered through the International Economics Program.

 

To complete the first level, students must demonstrate knowledge of microeconomics and macroeconomics at the intermediate level. These are typically second-level courses. This can be done either by taking and passing the SAIS Microeconomics and Macroeconomics courses—during Pre-Term or during a regular academic term—or, if qualified, by passing waiver exams. All students must attempt the waiver exams for Microeconomics and Macroeconomics before their first semester at SAIS. For students with a stronger mathematics background and a deeper interest in economic theory, SAIS also offers accelerated versions of the Microeconomics and Macroeconomics courses (Microeconomics in Pre-Term; both courses in a regular academic term). These accelerated courses cover the same material taught in the regular courses but in more depth and at a quicker pace by greater emphasis on mathematical methods.

 

For the second level, students must demonstrate knowledge of international trade and monetary theory. This can be done either by taking and passing the International Trade Theory and International Monetary Theory courses during a regular academic term or, if qualified, by passing waiver exams.  All students must attempt the waiver exam in Trade and Monetary Theory before their second semester at SAIS. SAIS offers accelerated versions of the International Trade Theory and International Monetary Theory courses for students who have strong quantitative skills. These accelerated courses cover the same material taught in the regular courses during a regular academic term but are designed for highly motivated economics students and those with career interests in economics.

 

The third level requires students to choose from among the many elective courses offered in the International Economics Program. Students must pass at least two additional elective courses from the International Economics Program offerings. Many students choose to take more than the minimum, and the program offers an array of lecture and seminar classes in the areas of advanced theory, quantitative methods, international finance and development economics.

 

Students who pass the waiver exams for International Trade Theory and/or International Monetary Theory must take additional elective courses in their place. The minimum course requirement for the concentration, beyond Microeconomics and Macroeconomics, is four courses offered through the International Economics Program.

Thanks for all this info! It's a little confusing to someone like myself who also has to take the intro level classes. 

[123seekay123]

Thanks jm08 for the great info!  And here's what I've determined so far...

 

When I interviewed for the Bologna Center, the professor who interviewed me encouraged me to take econ during pre-term.  I followed up with him last week for more information...  The pre-term micro and macro courses are intermediate, graded as pass/no pass, and they do not count towards the 16 class total.  If you pass, then you have effectively tested out of either micro or macro, opening up room for more electives and easing your transition into SAIS due to the pass/no pass deal.  Personally, if I go to SAIS, I would take micro along with survival Italian in pre-term. I haven't taken economics beyond two Principles of Micro/Macro classes, so a pass/no pass start is appealing to me and would allow me to focus my energy on a different class during my first semester.  

 

None of this was listed in my admissions letter- it just stated that I'd passed the intro micro/macro requirement (yay!).

Thanks for that - was about to ask if it was pass/fail. I'm guessing that's only the case in the preterm?

[dyavrom]

i wonder when they will release the dates for the online econ waiver exam for the 2013-2014 school year.  All I saw was for last year

Edited March 19, 2013 by dyavrom

[jm08]

Here you go, straight from a letter SAIS sent me:

 

 

WASHINGTON, DC: May 18-19, 2013; June 8-9, 2013; August 28-29, 2013; September 10-11, 2013; January 11-13, 2014

 

BOLOGNA: June 25-26, 2013 ; September 10-11, 2013; December 3-4, 2013; February 4-5, 2014

[idev2013applicant]

The following thread from collegeconfidential a few years back was really interesting. I'm going to paste the part where a then-SAIS student is talking about the social scene.

 

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/286389-fletcher-vs-sais-3.html

 

"Another note to the social life issue. In greater DC, the SAIS crowd can be insular, and they have a rep for being really arrogant. But I have to believe a lot of that was also owing to prejudice. Once we went to a SAIS, American, GW, Georgetown event and a woman introduced herself to me and a SAIS classmate with a great opener: "I've heard you guys think your god's gift to the world." Well, I am a humble person, but that's not a way to build bridges or elicit the most respectful reaction, though I tried to give one. She pretty much ran away. Another time I was at a party talking to a woman, and after 10 minutes she asked me the DC "where'd you go to school?" question. When I said SAIS, she said "wow, you've got to be the first SAIS student I have met who's not an arrogant f***." I think there was a kernel of truth to this, but I also think that people got so happily absorbed meeting a lot of their interesting classmates, that they got wrapped up in the group and the experience and seemed really self-absorbed from the outside. It looks bad, but it's a good place to be."

 

 

Is this really true? Outside of DC pretty much no one knows SAIS, so a SAIS guy cannot use it to impress girls. In NYC or boston they would get humiliated by finance alpha males or HBS students/alums. Interesting to see whether the dynamic described in the post above really holds true in DC.

 

 

 

You seriously make me want to vomit.  Please do not go to SAIS because your attitude will be a major drag on the program regardless of your IQ.  I am praying for you to get into an MBA program.  You are PERFECT for an MBA - clearly most interested in the social environment and monetary impact of grad school.  I am also an ex Wall Street guy so I know your type very well.

[ridofme]

Yeah, HBS parties are f*cking unreal. And knowing that the people you are getting wasted with will be the future leaders and tycoons of America makes it that much sweeter.

 

I hate to derail this thread, but Revolution: I would love to hear you describe what is so amazing about these parties. Lots of hot, scantily-clad, "well-educated" women fawning over the HBS gods? Lots of coke? Entrance to secret nightclubs? Private jets to Miami? I'm not being entirely facetious. I really am curious about what kinds of parties exist out there that are so mind-blowing that they cause people to pursue graduate educations primarily to increase their chances of being invited. And if you're attending these parties already, why the need to go through the whole song and dance (not to mention the tens of thousands of dollars)?

 

Is this really true? Outside of DC pretty much no one knows SAIS, so a SAIS guy cannot use it to impress girls. In NYC or boston they would get humiliated by finance alpha males or HBS students/alums. Interesting to see whether the dynamic described in the post above really holds true in DC.

 

Finally, are you looking just for hook-ups, or for a partner? Because if it's the former, I don't know why you'd care if they're well-educated or not. If it's the latter, then maybe you might consider pursuing a mate who is not so shallow as to "humiliate" any man who is not in finance or connected to HBS. Just a thought.

[jm08]

Randomly came across the "Red Book" SAIS student manual. Lot of interesting things inside if you want details on whatever topic...

 

http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/academics/academic-affairs/pdf/Red%20Book%20AY%2012-13%2008.27.12.pdf

 

Also, for folks interested in what graduates of top MBA programs make here are the top 40 (I think) and they're all over 6-figures.

 

http://poetsandquants.com/2013/03/18/where-six-figure-pay-is-a-done-deal/2/

 

The point I want to make is -- if you're interested in making 6-figures right out of school -- it isn't that hard to do. If you can get into SAIS, then it is likely you can get into one of the programs on this list. And, no, this is not meant to be fodder for the idiotic is "SAIS the same as top 10 MBA" program that seems to resurface on a regular basis. 

 

Just pointing out options.

Edited March 19, 2013 by jm08

[riverguide]

Is this really true? Outside of DC pretty much no one knows SAIS, so a SAIS guy cannot use it to impress girls. In NYC or boston they would get humiliated by finance alpha males or HBS students/alums. Interesting to see whether the dynamic described in the post above really holds true in DC.

 

 

[Revolution]

I hate to derail this thread, but Revolution: I would love to hear you describe what is so amazing about these parties. Lots of hot, scantily-clad, "well-educated" women fawning over the HBS gods? Lots of coke? Entrance to secret nightclubs? Private jets to Miami? I'm not being entirely facetious. I really am curious about what kinds of parties exist out there that are so mind-blowing that they cause people to pursue graduate educations primarily to increase their chances of being invited. And if you're attending these parties already, why the need to go through the whole song and dance (not to mention the tens of thousands of dollars)?

 

 

Finally, are you looking just for hook-ups, or for a partner? Because if it's the former, I don't know why you'd care if they're well-educated or not. If it's the latter, then maybe you might consider pursuing a mate who is not so shallow as to "humiliate" any man who is not in finance or connected to HBS. Just a thought.

 

 

Totally fair questions, so let me address them.

 

First, top b-schools in general are fun because they're a 2-year vacation from boring work life. Grades don't really matter since most schools have grade non-disclosure (employers cannot ask your grades).  Second, the mba is geared towards socializing, networking, and recruiting. There are literally social events every single day in the calendar; there is so much stuff going on that mba students joke about FOMO: fear of missing out. You have house parties, dinners, going to bars/clubs, dances and galas, costume parties, and travelling throughout the world. Harvard Business in particular takes this to an extreme level. I've been to a few of their parties, and they are super fun. HBS has for instance priscilla's ball, which is a drag party. They also have newport ball, a formal that takes place in upscale newport, rhode island. Then they have holidazzle, the annual christmas bash, as well as casino parties, boat cruise parties, countless costume parties, etc.

 

More importantly, the people at HBS or top schools in general are some of the smartest, most interesting, and accomplished people you will ever meet. And for 2 years you are surrounded by these people in a very tight bonding experience, and it's just freaking amazing. It should come as no surprise then that a lot of people meet their future spouses in b-school. And from talking to tons of students and alums from these schools, not a single one regrets attending, even when some of them took out $200K in loans. A top MBA is truly a transformational experience, one that cannot be replicated elsewhere.

 

As for what i'm looking for, i'm certainly not averse to hooking up, but i am looking for something a bit more long-term. MBA girls fit what i'm looking for, and the women at hbs/wharton/kellogg are actually pretty decent looking, in shape, and well put together.

 

This 2008 article from Boston Magazine talks about the HBS social scene. It's also no secret that boston girls LOVE HBS guys.

 

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/2008/08/aint-no-party-like-an-hbs-party/

Edited March 19, 2013 by Revolution

[dyavrom]

I think the 2012 Kellogg School of Management Ski Trip is where its at  

http://youtu.be/IRr-N5Q7gKo?t=33s

Edited March 19, 2013 by dyavrom

[dyavrom]

Here you go, straight from a letter SAIS sent me:

 

 

WASHINGTON, DC: May 18-19, 2013; June 8-9, 2013; August 28-29, 2013; September 10-11, 2013; January 11-13, 2014

 

BOLOGNA: June 25-26, 2013 ; September 10-11, 2013; December 3-4, 2013; February 4-5, 2014

 thanks....any clue on which ones are online only?  I am assuming the May/June ones 

[Revolution]

I think the 2012 Kellogg School of Management Ski Trip is where its at  

http://youtu.be/IRr-N5Q7gKo?t=33s

 

My best friend was at that trip! He met his girlfriend and likely to be wife on a kellogg trip to eastern europe right before orientation.