Harvard Kennedy School Admissions

[adollarninetynine]

You make following arguments on HBS grads (compared to HKS grads):

 

"who earn much more over the course of their careers"

- yes, that's indeed true, but is entering HKS a means to earn a lot of money? HBS, yes, but HKS?

 

 

"frequently get their pre-MBA employers to foot the bill for their degree"

- yes, I heard that as well, but sometime in the early 2000's when MBAs were in high demand? It's not like that any more; last I heard an HBS grad tried to condition BCG to pay his tuition upon graduation to join them; they said no thanks

 

 

"HKS just doesn't make financial sense"

- yes, I agree, but should it? What about college?

 

 

"epitomizes the worst of the mad grab for prestigious sounding degrees"

- I would not generalize here; maybe for some MC/MPAs that's true; but a lot of the MPPs etc. are truly passionate about publi policy from what I've seen

 

 

Do you mind sharing with us what's your background and current status vis-a-vis PP/IR apps?

 

College makes financial sense for most because the loans will not have outrageous interest rates and will be subsidized. Plus there are many more opportunities for scholarships and financial aid along with instate tuition for many. If you think HKS doesn't make financial sense for you and you still go, something is wrong. And please stop with using anecdotal evidence along the lines of "I heard from a friend...". BCG will pay for BCG analysts who are already working there and will return after the MBA. I don't know many places that would pay for an MBA when the student has no experience there or did not receive an agreement before enrolling. The fact that HKS is a part of Harvard is indeed a big reason why HKS gets away with being such a cheapskate on financial aid because students are a lot more influenced in their financial decision because of the brand.

 

Sometimes I really wonder how many people sit down and calculate how much you would have to pay in loans every year after graduation if you took out close to $150K for two years at HKS. Stafford loans are now unsubsidized along with Gradplus and both of them have outrageous interest rates. 

Edited March 4, 2013 by adollarninetynine

[vincehoward]

I'm not arguing that HKS should be a means to earning a high salary. However, I am saying that prospective students should not be so eager to sign up for so much debt when they know it'll be a stretch to pay that money back. The cost just isn't justified when you look at the employment figures and salaries most grads end up making after they finish. You see it on Grad Cafe all the time where posters ask if they should take $$$ offered by a less prestigious program (LBJ, GSPP, Maxwell, etc) or go to Kennedy School with no funding. Often these posters choose HKS and say that they just can't turn down the chance to study at Kennedy School. This decision just seems irrational to me. Is the HKS name/degree really worth 150K+ of debt? 

 

Not sure where you're getting your information about BCG, but they still pay for their ACs to get their MBAs as long as they return to BCG as Consultants after they graduate. Many other consulting firms and banks do this as well.

 

Yes, it should make sense financially to attend graduate school, just like college should make sense financially. I would never advise my child to attend a cash cow private university such as Colgate or Pepperdine if they had perfectly fine public schools that they could attend at a cheaper rate. Despite the Havard affiliation, HKS is comparable to those cash cows because it doesn't confer benefits far beyond that of its closest competitors. Most public sector jobs are not prestige driven, unlike law and business. In other words, it doesn't matter where you go for your MPP/MPA, at least it doesn't matter to the extent that people should be clamoring to take on 150K+ of loan debt.

[pete-mc]

Let's also not forget that, according to recent HBS career posts, some 20-25% of grads don't have a job offer at time of graduation, that's about 180-230 students, which equals in class size HKS's entire MPP or MC/MPA cohorts.

 

And those who are company sponsored are committed to return to their previous employer for 2-3 years, otherwise they need to pay back the tuition. I personally know an HBS grad from 2002 who was sponsored by McK and then bought out by an investment bank. But that was more than 10 years ago.

Edited March 4, 2013 by PJM

[adollarninetynine]

Do you even know what you are talking about dude? Look at my response to your post instead of deflecting and try to respond to our actual responses. A lot of those "unemployed" HBS grads are not actually jobless. The statistics are misleading because they don't always include VAs or start ups and other factors. Go look at Stanford's MBA statistics and you will see the same thing. Of course they need to come back. Why else would a company pay for their MBAs if there is no value in doing so? What's the point of stating the obvious? And there we go again with the anecdotal evidence. 

[rz922]

Can't we argue about something more relevant like who's more "Harvard material" or something...

[soaps]

This thread is more toxic every time I visit it. No one here wants to absorb all this vitriol and internet ego bruising on top of the anxiety of the waiting process. In this thread and others, some of you seem like you have a personal vendetta against anyone who thinks they should go to HKS (with or without funding). Your comments aren't always helpful but they are always condescending. I think about funding constantly, but none of you are saying anything that hasn't already been said in the last week alone. The horse is dead and thoroughly beaten. 

Edited March 4, 2013 by soapwater

[alf10087]

Agreed. There seems to be some kind of resentment towards HKS that is perceived in every post.

 

I hope that bashing your own school at prospective-student forums is not a widespread conduct from HKS students. However, if that was the case, I would have to agree with the previous comments that gaining admission to HKS is not at all any indication of personal worth.

[Revolution]

Let's also not forget that, according to recent HBS career posts, some 20-25% of grads don't have a job offer at time of graduation, that's about 180-230 students, which equals in class size HKS's entire MPP or MC/MPA cohorts.

 

And those who are company sponsored are committed to return to their previous employer for 2-3 years, otherwise they need to pay back the tuition. I personally know an HBS grad from 2002 who was sponsored by McK and then bought out by an investment bank. But that was more than 10 years ago.

 

About 90% of HBS grads get jobs within 6 months of graduating. A lot of hbs students are now going into startups and other smaller ventures rather than joining the corporate world. And for those looking for very specific opportunities, let's say buyside finance, they are willing to wait for the right opportunity rather than take a job just for the sake of a job. Because HBS grads have so many options, they can afford to wait things out rather than settling. 

 

The tuition reimbursement is 2-3 years, now it's more like 3 years. The big 3 consulting firms (mckinsey/bcg/bain) now pay first-year associates close to $200K all-in, including bonus. 

 

It boggles my mind that policy programs can get away with charging almost as much as top MBA programs. It's utterly ridiculous, akin to an auto dealer selling a honda accord for the same price as a porsche. 

[Revolution]

I wonder if HKS students get access to university-wide on-campus recruiting, especially for the financial firms. 

[Kadisha]

About 90% of HBS grads get jobs within 6 months of graduating. A lot of hbs students are now going into startups and other smaller ventures rather than joining the corporate world. And for those looking for very specific opportunities, let's say buyside finance, they are willing to wait for the right opportunity rather than take a job just for the sake of a job. Because HBS grads have so many options, they can afford to wait things out rather than settling. 

 

The tuition reimbursement is 2-3 years, now it's more like 3 years. The big 3 consulting firms (mckinsey/bcg/bain) now pay first-year associates close to $200K all-in, including bonus. 

 

It boggles my mind that policy programs can get away with charging almost as much as top MBA programs. It's utterly ridiculous, akin to an auto dealer selling a honda accord for the same price as a porsche. 

 

Bro then why did you apply there? OR did you even apply there? Seriously. I'm just curious at this point. 

[pete-mc]

It could be the tension and nervousness that some forum members here have which leads them to express their feelings in a rather politically not so correct way.

 

Let's remember, it's just a school. It won't get you a job and it won't do the job for you. It may be an accelerator to get the foot in the right door, but that's all, I'm speaking from experience.

 

My impression is also that their is an exaggerated view of HBS in comparison to other Harvard grad schools, such as HKS. Do you really think that all HBS grads become CEOs? The answer is no, the school is mainly driven by an excellent marketing machinery, but they also only cook with water, like us.

Edited March 5, 2013 by PJM

[Revolution]

Yup. I applied to HKS and SAIS, along with top mba programs in hopes of doing a joint degree.

 

I really like the HKS MPA program since it is geared towards older applicants with work experience, and the flexibility will allow me to take tons of courses that interest me and can help advance my career goals. However, I'm just not sure if HKS alone without an MBA would allow me to get the job I want coming out.

 

Bro then why did you apply there? OR did you even apply there? Seriously. I'm just curious at this point. 

Edited March 5, 2013 by Revolution

[Pinkman]

Yup. I applied to HKS and SAIS, along with top mba programs in hopes of doing a joint degree.

 

I really like the HKS MPA program since it is geared towards older applicants with work experience, and the flexibility will allow me to take tons of courses that interest me and can help advance my career goals. However, I'm just not sure if HKS alone without an MBA would allow me to get the job I want coming out.

I dont really understand. I gather you want to work in the private sector so have no real use for an public policy degree. Why not just apply to an MBA program and take policy classes that pique your interest? With the costs involved, I would be EXTREMELY hesitant to take on two degrees, even with the Harvard name.

SAIS is a great school, one which I applied to, for the private sector. If you get in there, for me, I see very little point of a further degree just to work in a sector which SAIS should assist with anyway. YMMV

[Revolution]

Can you tell me more about SAIS and the private sector placement? Do firms actively recruit on-campus? I hear their career services is really bad, or has it gotten better?

 

I dont really understand. I gather you want to work in the private sector so have no real use for an public policy degree. Why not just apply to an MBA program and take policy classes that pique your interest? With the costs involved, I would be EXTREMELY hesitant to take on two degrees, even with the Harvard name.

SAIS is a great school, one which I applied to, for the private sector. If you get in there, for me, I see very little point of a further degree just to work in a sector which SAIS should assist with anyway. YMMV

[Pinkman]

Can you tell me more about SAIS and the private sector placement? Do firms actively recruit on-campus? I hear their career services is really bad, or has it gotten better?

I asked them and from what I hear, private sector firms do not recruit on-campus. But they hold numerous events on-campus so networking is key and the alumni base is fantastic from what I hear.

[Pinkman]

Obviously they didnt say the career service sucks but the sense I get is they're helpful but have their limits, much like any school. I think its all about the alumni base to find the right position for you. I dont really want to hijack this thread with SAIS talk so I'll post anything else I hear on the appropriate thread.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Pinkman

[Revolution]

Hmm. Not having access to on-campus recruiting is a huge liability. I hope they have resources for guys like me who're interested in finance and have prior experience.

 

I know HKS is not that strong in international econ/finance, but i imagine that having access to the resources of the broader harvard community should be somewhat helpful. Nonetheless, my friends who did joint mba/policy told me to not do policy alone. Either do both or do the mba.

 

 

I asked them and from what I hear, private sector firms do not recruit on-campus. But they hold numerous events on-campus so networking is key and the alumni base is fantastic from what I hear.

[pete-mc]

I read this on the CPL website:

 

"Finalists for the Zuckerman Fellowship will be required to come to Harvard University for an interview with members of the Zuckerman Fellowship Selection Committee on March 14 and 15, 2013. Finalists will receive an invitation via email the week of March 4, 2013 which will provide more detailed information. Information regarding the interviews will not be available prior to that time. For those living outside of the Boston/Cambridge area, hotel and travel expenses to and from Cambridge will be paid by Harvard."

 

This means that HKS admissions decisions are taken as we speak. Seems that fellowship applicants get notified first. Those who have already heard can you please share.

[soaps]

From today's admissions blog:

"In advance of the release of admission decisions later this month..."

Doesn't sound like we'll be hearing anything this week.

[Kadisha]

Yup. I applied to HKS and SAIS, along with top mba programs in hopes of doing a joint degree.

 

I really like the HKS MPA program since it is geared towards older applicants with work experience, and the flexibility will allow me to take tons of courses that interest me and can help advance my career goals. However, I'm just not sure if HKS alone without an MBA would allow me to get the job I want coming out.

 

Fair enough. Makes sense now. 

 

From today's admissions blog:

"In advance of the release of admission decisions later this month..."

Doesn't sound like we'll be hearing anything this week.

 

Sounds like it. Was hoping for some good news this morning. Although they did say they were going to release information for the specific programs later. Maybe we'll hear something more specific then.

[soaps]

I wish they'd just give us the first date we're likely to hear anything, regardless of the program, so that the intervening days aren't fraught with so much anxiety. 

[Kadisha]

I wish they'd just give us the first date we're likely to hear anything, regardless of the program, so that the intervening days aren't fraught with so much anxiety. 

 

It would be nice if ALL schools did that. At least SIPA said the 18th.

[alf10087]

Does anyone know about the chances to get 2nd year funding at HKS if you don't get anything on the first year? Are TA positions available and accessible?

 

I'm asking this because I would be able to pay for the first year, but by no means for the second one. Assuming I will receive no aid at all.

[adollarninetynine]

TA positions are available as long as you have relevant coursework and are pretty easy to get.

Edited March 6, 2013 by adollarninetynine

[alf10087]

Thank you. And that'll give you full tuition waiver?