So, for all of us rejects .....WHO is ready to try again this fall?

[kaykitty19]

I know I am a lurker on these forums, but so far I have only heard back from schools that have rejected me. I am still waiting and I honestly do have high hopes for getting into some place. If ( and it is a big if because I really do believe I will get in some where) things do not go as planned I will just apply to a MA program near where I live.

[Troppman]

Okay, now that brings up another topic, age!   obvioulsy they know by DOB, etc...  when you are older, you start to wonder if the age factor  comes into play.....it does in the job market!!   I am 48 and I am the oldest in my MA graduate program...

I have a colleague who has 'bout a decade on you. She has presented at top conferences as a MA student, and just scored an interview at a top (and well funded) program. She is also very involved mother and grandmother who raised her kids alone as a teenager and now has a MA and MS. AND, she's worked other jobs her whole career as a full-time grad student.  I think that age, in a way, can at times be an indicator to the program of question that they are dealing with a serious and competent student. That said, I don't mean to negate your concerns; she is still super-angsty about age too. No Admin com in their right minds will question a student's ability if that student has persevered so seriously in the "real world." I don't want or mean to sound preachy, I just wanted to affirm your angst and provide a tangible anecdote... 

 

Edit: underscoring how impressive this lady is. Family doesn't get in the way of her work. She takes her grandson to school, TAs, helps her kids out, has a wonderful husband, presents at conferences, never uses her age/family as an excuse etc... 

 

Edit #2: I also feel obligated to underscore, to prospective students, how contingent the process is. Last week I was sure that I would need a "round 2" after many rejections. Then came an acceptance from a great program with no funding, and a few days later an extremely well funded offer. I also come from a seriously non-trad background vis-a-vis the demographics of academia. I was an athlete by trade, and before that I was in Juvee for some years. I'm a published author now at a funded PhD program :-). My advise: so long as your SOP and writing sample are solid as affirmed by a diverse group of critics (Friends, colleagues, advisors, etc) and your GRE isn't terrible (mine was 157 157 4.5; not good, not terrible, surprisingly good at math), the rest is contingent. I am 99% that one of my letter writers had some terrible things to say, and my strongest advocate showed me his whole paragraph of critique in the letter he wrote (because he is cool like that, and wanted to be honest about it). I don't think i'm actually a bratty student, but I entered my program weeks after losing a parent--I should have taken time off. ANYWAY, all of this to say that I am not a 'winner' on the other side; rather, I was good enough like most applicants and the stars happened to be aligned. It is easy to go mad thinking of what else one can do, when ultimately the deciding factors tend to be ineffable in nature...

Edited February 20, 2013 by StephanieDelacour

[KenAnderson]

Another thought: Although this is not always practical, one of my professors said she took classes as a post bac student at Berkley and got to know the faculty and eventually was accepted to the PhD program.    

[t1racyjacks]

I feel beyond crap but I have to reapply. I need to try again. My only fear is just being incredibly unlucky, in general.

[Swagato]

Holy wow, this makes me wonder what the average age for entering PhDs is these days, across disciplines. I'll be 26 when I begin this year, and I thought that was older...

 

Anyway. SoP, SoP, SoP. Writing Sample, Writing Sample, Writing Sample. Letters, Letters, Letters. That's all I have to say. I changed nothing from last year except the first two--the letters were (I assume) partially amended by my professors based on my conversations with them, reflecting my new focus etc. I don't think they were radically changed. However, I did focus almost completely on the SoP and the writing sample. Get faculty to read them if possible. Get anyone--advanced students, faculty, graduate placement services--to read them. Get as much feedback as you can. 

 

It needn't be repeated, but--obviously, make sure you are presenting an attractive proposal; it should be timely, forward-looking, and just a worthwhile investment opportunity for the department. 

 

And apply widely. 

Edited March 1, 2013 by Swagato

[t1racyjacks]

I still can't help the nagging feeling that I got 0/4 because I suck I know it sounds ridiculous but contrary to all good sense I feel that way

[Swagato]

To be perfectly honest, t1racyjacks, I have serious reservations about an English applicant applying to a mere four places, at least 3 of which are quite competitive, one supremely so. I have a good friend from my Chicago MA who is in English; he has an admirable applicant profile--last cycle, he applied to at least 15 places, I believe, finally getting into two of the top places for his specialties. I don't remember if he had other admits. Columbia clearly states that they get 700+ applications. My impression is that English is a seriously hard field to get into, especially if you are gunning for the very top. 

 

I don't know if you have an MA, or in general anything else about your profile, but I'm of the opinion that feeling down after being rejected from four places is outright irrational, simply given the numbers involved. And, to top it all off, you're an international applicant applying to a public institution in California. In 2012/13. 

 

If I were you, the first thing I'd do next year is make sure I'm applying to at least more than a dozen places, at any of which I could see myself. 

[t1racyjacks]

I'll apply to some comp lit next cycle........ I have an MA, but it doesn't do much for anyone, I think? I'm glad I did it though, I needed the extra writing experience and it was paid for

[practical cat]

To be perfectly honest, t1racyjacks, I have serious reservations about an English applicant applying to a mere four places, at least 3 of which are quite competitive, one supremely so. I have a good friend from my Chicago MA who is in English; he has an admirable applicant profile--last cycle, he applied to at least 15 places, I believe, finally getting into two of the top places for his specialties. I don't remember if he had other admits. Columbia clearly states that they get 700+ applications. My impression is that English is a seriously hard field to get into, especially if you are gunning for the very top. 

 

I don't know if you have an MA, or in general anything else about your profile, but I'm of the opinion that feeling down after being rejected from four places is outright irrational, simply given the numbers involved. And, to top it all off, you're an international applicant applying to a public institution in California. In 2012/13. 

 

If I were you, the first thing I'd do next year is make sure I'm applying to at least more than a dozen places, at any of which I could see myself. 

This. So much of this. You cannot beat up on yourself for not being chosen out of a pool of hundreds of candidates, many of whom are qualified and competitive applicants. The sheer probability (not accounting for institutional politics) is outrageously low. If you genuinely believe that your application package sucks (not you as a person, this has nothing to do with you as a person), you have many months to make it unsuck. You actually may have to rethink what being a competitive applicant entails (and a lot of that would be rethinking strategy, as swagato outlined) but you can do it. There's no shame in rejection and, honestly, there's no shame in feeling down. Just don't let that consume you, you know?

[t1racyjacks]

thanks so much for that. I think my WS was ok tbh, but my GRE could use improvement. My POI and I are looking at my SOP to see what can be done again. No word from my own faculty though, which worries me (though it shouldn't????)

[chaucerettescs]

My plan was originally to reapply this Fall. However, now I'm debating because my family is moving to Charleston and the College of Charleston has a joint program with the Citadel that offers a funded MA (with a late deadline; if I got in, I could start this Fall). I was apprehensive about potentially committing to an MA instead of just reapplying for PhD programs, but have now talked to one of my letter writers (who's a well-respected prof at my uni and has served on admissions committees in the past) and she is saying that, if I get funding, to go for it (but only if I get funding).

 

If I don't get into that or don't get funding, then I am definitely reapplying for PhDs this Fall to a much, much larger pool of schools. 

[NowMoreSerious]

I have a question for those who applied to fewer than 8-9 programs. Was it a matter of money? Were those the only schools you wanted to attend, period? Because I am curious as to whether your advisors warned you of how extremely competitive English is, everywhere. Because if you were advised to apply to that few schools, that might be a red flag that the advisor is a little bit out of touch with how things are right now.

[pomoisdead]

I have a question for those who applied to fewer than 8-9 programs. Was it a matter of money? Were those the only schools you wanted to attend, period? Because I am curious as to whether your advisors warned you of how extremely competitive English is, everywhere. Because if you were advised to apply to that few schools, that might be a red flag that the advisor is a little bit out of touch with how things are right now.

 

There are a number of reasons why I only applied to 5 programs, but money was a huge reason. I've been out of my MFA for 4 years now and have been adjuncting 6-8 courses per semester just to survive, so you can guess what my bills look like. I left my undergrad with huge debt, under the guise that it would be covered, but the economy collapsed on my family...

 

So here I am, now 28, with a wife and all kinds of bills. The wife won't move because she's incredibly close to the small amount of family she has, and I'm stuck teaching as much as I am because the market is so flooded/political that getting a full-time teaching job is near impossible despite how good my resume and credentials are.

 

I applied to 5 schools and had to request scores be sent to them, costing me about $500 total (a sum too big for my situation as it was, but I charged it...what the hell) and is looking like a waste because, well I dunno, my GRE scores from 2009 weren't great? Who knows...I feel my experience and work ethic are good considering my position, but I don't have the time to spend hours on my sample every day for months straight. I spent time on it when I could and did a pretty decent job considering. I don't have advisors anymore...I graduated already and they're busy with new students. Emailing them for letters seemed burdensome enough (although they were more than willing) and I couldn't imagine asking someone I haven't seen in 4 years to help me with my sample, check over my SOP, etc. Maybe I should...

 

Essentially it comes down to circumstances, at least for me. My circumstances are, to be frank, shitty. But I'll reapply when (and I'm sure when, not if) UNH rejects me. I'll find the money to retake the useless GRE once or twice more, think of a new writing sample that's less complex than the one I did, and go at it once more.

 

I'd love to apply to 10-20 programs, but the expense is just too huge when I'm busy paying $1k a month just in student loans.

 

Edit: As a quick side note, and I've already been down voted like hell elsewhere for this (who gives a fuck about down votes), but I want to get into a program (not any program) because I truly love literature. I've been teaching literature to all different levels of student for the last 5 years and it never ceases to amaze me what people find when they're given the chance. If only it didn't take applying to 20 programs, spending hundreds of dollars, and hoping some test score were enough to prove that feeling.

Edited March 1, 2013 by pomoisdead

[Porridge]

There are a number of reasons why I only applied to 5 programs, but money was a huge reason. I've been out of my MFA for 4 years now and have been adjuncting 6-8 courses per semester just to survive, so you can guess what my bills look like. I left my undergrad with huge debt, under the guise that it would be covered, but the economy collapsed on my family...

 

So here I am, now 28, with a wife and all kinds of bills. The wife won't move because she's incredibly close to the small amount of family she has, and I'm stuck teaching as much as I am because the market is so flooded/political that getting a full-time teaching job is near impossible despite how good my resume and credentials are.

 

I applied to 5 schools and had to request scores be sent to them, costing me about $500 total (a sum too big for my situation as it was, but I charged it...what the hell) and is looking like a waste because, well I dunno, my GRE scores from 2009 weren't great? Who knows...I feel my experience and work ethic are good considering my position, but I don't have the time to spend hours on my sample every day for months straight. I spent time on it when I could and did a pretty decent job considering. I don't have advisors anymore...I graduated already and they're busy with new students. Emailing them for letters seemed burdensome enough (although they were more than willing) and I couldn't imagine asking someone I haven't seen in 4 years to help me with my sample, check over my SOP, etc. Maybe I should...

 

Essentially it comes down to circumstances, at least for me. My circumstances are, to be frank, shitty. But I'll reapply when (and I'm sure when, not if) UNH rejects me. I'll find the money to retake the useless GRE once or twice more, think of a new writing sample that's less complex than the one I did, and go at it once more.

 

I'd love to apply to 10-20 programs, but the expense is just too huge when I'm busy paying $1k a month just in student loans.

 

Edit: As a quick side note, and I've already been down voted like hell elsewhere for this (who gives a fuck about down votes), but I want to get into a program (not any program) because I truly love literature. I've been teaching literature to all different levels of student for the last 5 years and it never ceases to amaze me what people find when they're given the chance. If only it didn't take applying to 20 programs, spending hundreds of dollars, and hoping some test score were enough to prove that feeling.

 

Did you apply for fee waivers. I agree the costs in applying are huge, and as an international those application fees are fairly prohibitive!

[pomoisdead]

Did you apply for fee waivers. I agree the costs in applying are huge, and as an international those application fees are fairly prohibitive!

Applying for fee waivers is a foreign concept for me. Quite honestly, I made the decision to apply too late and don't really know much about the whole process. At least now I'll know and spend more time. Are these usually through the departments or private funds?

[t1racyjacks]

I have a question for those who applied to fewer than 8-9 programs. Was it a matter of money? Were those the only schools you wanted to attend, period? Because I am curious as to whether your advisors warned you of how extremely competitive English is, everywhere. Because if you were advised to apply to that few schools, that might be a red flag that the advisor is a little bit out of touch with how things are right now.

it was partly a matter of money and partly a matter of faculty. But I think instead of applying English this time round I might apply to a few English programs, a few comp lit programs, and so on and so forth...

[Swagato]

t1racyjacks: Again, I don't know your profile, but since you said that you hope to apply to Comp Lit programs next year, I thought I'd share something I learnt this round myself. Unless you are already fluent in at least several languages (relevant to your interests) as well as English, it's practically not worth it to apply to Comp Lit programs. That, at least, is what a POI of mine at Yale informed me. The sheer number of applicants means they receive many applications from people already perfectly fluent, meaning those with intermediate language acquisition often do not stand a chance. Your mileage may vary of course. 

[t1racyjacks]

t1racyjacks: Again, I don't know your profile, but since you said that you hope to apply to Comp Lit programs next year, I thought I'd share something I learnt this round myself. Unless you are already fluent in at least several languages (relevant to your interests) as well as English, it's practically not worth it to apply to Comp Lit programs. That, at least, is what a POI of mine at Yale informed me. The sheer number of applicants means they receive many applications from people already perfectly fluent, meaning those with intermediate language acquisition often do not stand a chance. Your mileage may vary of course. 

think it is true for Yale, which has crazy language requirements (even for English). But I know many friends of mine who got into comp lit, from my uni, who did not know much of the language when they applied -- and got in -- into good programs like Emory, etc I can read basic french (ugh, my speaking is horrid though)....

 

nevermind, I think my chances for english and comp lit are so low, I might as well just spread it all out. I'm meeting a prof at my faculty to restrategize on mon

[aGiRlCalLeDApPlE]

Hi, I've already started planning to reapply next Fall, after being rejected by 3 schools. I do have a list of questions that I'd be grateful if anyone here would answer:

•  For cop. lit. programs, is it enough to be fluent in a foreign language (Arabic/mother tongue)? Or should I try to learn another language like French, Spanish, or Persian...?
•  So many people talked about how important it is to have connections? What is an appropriate way to make connections with the depts. that you're going to apply to? Are there specific details that I should say to professors or things that I should never say?
•  Is it necessary to take the subject GRE? Some highly ranked programs require it, but not so many. Should I take it or should I just stay away from those schools that require it?
•  I guess my writing sample sucks cuz I really really didn't work hard on it, I just summarized my MA thesis. How to choose a topic to write about? a topic that would be interesting to read and reflect my interests too.
• Is attending conferences, just attending, worth mentioning at all?

 

 I know this is a long list, but I'm trying to hard to be well prepared for next year. Thank you

[Ategenos]

Hi, I've already started planning to reapply next Fall, after being rejected by 3 schools. I do have a list of questions that I'd be grateful if anyone here would answer:

•  For cop. lit. programs, is it enough to be fluent in a foreign language (Arabic/mother tongue)? Or should I try to learn another language like French, Spanish, or Persian...?
•  So many people talked about how important it is to have connections? What is an appropriate way to make connections with the depts. that you're going to apply to? Are there specific details that I should say to professors or things that I should never say?
•  Is it necessary to take the subject GRE? Some highly ranked programs require it, but not so many. Should I take it or should I just stay away from those schools that require it?
•  I guess my writing sample sucks cuz I really really didn't work hard on it, I just summarized my MA thesis. How to choose a topic to write about? a topic that would be interesting to read and reflect my interests too.
• Is attending conferences, just attending, worth mentioning at all?

 

 I know this is a long list, but I'm trying to hard to be well prepared for next year. Thank you

1) As far as I've been told, it depends on your focus... although obviously, more languages will never hurt you when applying for a comp lit program... although personally I'd go for Hindi or Mandarin (though it really depends on what sort of work you are wanting to do again).

 

2) Attend conferences, email POIs and graduate directors, see if it's possible to go and visit the department. In terms of POIs, the best thing I found was just showing that you know about their work, the field they're working in, and in general can somewhat engage them. On the other hand, I got wait-listed at a department I never even went to or had any contact with (then again... I bet you that if I had managed to visit and made good contact with people, it would have been more likely to be an acceptance).

 

3) Don't base the schools you choose on whether or not they require the subject test. If the school fits you, and they require the subject test, then you should be taking it. Just prepare as much as possible (read the Norton Anthology of British Literature, the Norton Anthology of American Literature, and the preparation books for the test, and you'll be fine - luckily, you have plenty of time to prepare!)

 

4) You should work to death on your writing sample. Remember, alongside your SoP, this is pretty much the main thing you are going to be judged on. It has to be excellent and, in my opinion, it should also tie into the work that you want to do - it doesn't have to represent it exactly, but they should be able to see the connection.

 

5) Eh... it can't hurt, but it means nothing. Apparently undergraduate and postgraduate conferences are sort of 'eh' to admission committees, and so is mere attendance at conferences. If you've attended and presented at a professional conference or two, however, THAT can look good.

[Gauche]

I have a question for those who applied to fewer than 8-9 programs. Was it a matter of money? Were those the only schools you wanted to attend, period? Because I am curious as to whether your advisors warned you of how extremely competitive English is, everywhere. Because if you were advised to apply to that few schools, that might be a red flag that the advisor is a little bit out of touch with how things are right now.

 

I applied to 7 PhD programs and my (soon-to-be) alma mater as a backup. I looked at literally every school on the U.S. News & World Report (though I researched some more in depth than others). I finally narrowed my list to 20 and then about 12 schools, and finally knocked off a few more that I figured it would be pointless of applying to especially since they were early deadlines (and I still needed more time to work on SOP and WS). I figured that it would save some money too since I didn't think I would get in during my first round. In fact, I resolved that I would stay at my alma mater for one more year in the MA program, and the only reason why I bothered applying to some PhD programs was to have the experience of applying.

 

Anyway, my advisors all informed me of how competitive it is. I even had one advisor who would try his hardest to convince me not to go to grad school not because he didn't think I can handle it but because he wanted me to know the reality of the situation. He fully supported me decision to apply, however, and was one of my letter writers.

[ghijklmn]

On 3/3/2013 at 2:52 PM, Rose Egypt said:

Hi, I've already started planning to reapply next Fall, after being rejected by 3 schools. I do have a list of questions that I'd be grateful if anyone here would answer:

•  For cop. lit. programs, is it enough to be fluent in a foreign language (Arabic/mother tongue)? Or should I try to learn another language like French, Spanish, or Persian...?
•  So many people talked about how important it is to have connections? What is an appropriate way to make connections with the depts. that you're going to apply to? Are there specific details that I should say to professors or things that I should never say?
•  Is it necessary to take the subject GRE? Some highly ranked programs require it, but not so many. Should I take it or should I just stay away from those schools that require it?
•  I guess my writing sample sucks cuz I really really didn't work hard on it, I just summarized my MA thesis. How to choose a topic to write about? a topic that would be interesting to read and reflect my interests too.
• Is attending conferences, just attending, worth mentioning at all?

 

 I know this is a long list, but I'm trying to hard to be well prepared for next year. Thank you

 

Of course I'm just one person, so I can only tell you about my experience -- take it with a grain of salt!

 

1) It depends on which program. Some, like WashU, only require one foreign language upon applying. Others, such as UT and Yale, want to see evidence of 2+. I would definitely try to pick up another language if I were you, though one related to your interests.

 

2) I had absolutely no connections when I applied. I did try to e-mail a few POIs at each school, but just very basic stuff, i.e. stating my interests and asking if they thought I would be a good fit with their departmental and personal strengths, etc. Other than these e-mails, I had no other contact.

 

3) I absolutely avoided all schools that required the subject test. There were plenty of schools I was interested in that didn't require it, so I thought, why put in all that time and money for a test for one or two schools? (Also, I would have bombed it... I never took any survey courses and sure as heck wouldn't remember anything from them if I had.) However, if you really really like a school that requires it, it can't hurt. I was mostly just lazy.

 

4) About the writing sample: mine had absolutely nothing to do with my area of interest (and was only 10 pages). Everyone told me that this was a terrible idea, but I still got into three great schools and wait listed at another. That's not to say that you should do this! But I just wanted to make a note to future applicants that having a mismatched SOP and writing sample is not necessarily the kiss of death.

 

5) I've never gone to a conference. I didn't really even know they existed until this year. Probably the most unaware lit major that ever existed...

 

Good luck!

[practical cat]

2. I didn't contact any faculty/departments prior to applying but I have very well connected letter writers. It's an advantage that kind of fell into my lap but I think it is the only kind of connection that makes a tangible difference. This is to say that I think the whole issue of connections and networking is kind of out of our hands at this point and that makes more sense to focus on other aspects of the application (the writing sample).

3. I don't think there is a wrong way of thinking about the subject test. If you take it, you don't have to worry about eliminating schools based on that factor but, honestly, there's a point where most of us need to start crossing schools off our lists for small/insignificant reasons so that might not be terrible. I would say do it if you have the time/money but, once again, focus elsewhere. That said, I did pretty poorly -- no survey courses, relatively weak background in the discipline. Got wait listed at most of the schools that didn't require it, straight rejections at the schools that did (that's more correlation than causation though, honestly).

[ProfLorax]

•  I know this is a long list, but I'm trying to hard to be well prepared for next year. Thank you

Re connections:

 

I made contact with Purdue, Arizona, Ohio State, and UNC Chapel Hill. I still haven't heard back from Purdue; I was accepted to U of Arizona; I was waitlisted at Ohio State; I was rejected from UNC Chapel Hill. I was also accepted at Miami, Maryland, UMass, and Illinois, and I had no prior contact with their professors. This is to illustrate that I don't think making connections with POIs helps in terms of admissions. That being said, all of the professors I talked to gave me tips on what to focus on in my SoP, which I think helped my application as a whole. 

 

Re conferences:

 

I would recommend against listing conferences you've just attended on your CV. However, that is not to say that attending a conference is a bad idea. You can introduce yourself to POIs and get ideas for your writing sample. You may also be able to mention attending a conference in your SoP, if you can show how attending the conference helped your ideas evolve: "After attending a panel on X at the annual Y convention, I was inspired to consider the representations of Z in A, which I address in my writing sample."