So, for all of us rejects .....WHO is ready to try again this fall?

[KenAnderson]

So, I am 0/4 with three to go.... if i stike out with the last three... I AM Ready to retool and reset with my applications again this fall in English Rhet./Comp.

 

  What changes and adjustments would you make in your applications??

 

for me:

 

1. Retake my GRE's. I had anxiety issues with the timed writing section on the GRE.... a sad 4.0 and only a 620 on the verbal. Despite the denial from programs that GRE's are not the only consideration,

I have not seen any acceptances here with Scores less than the 90 percentile on the verbal and at least a 5.0 on the writing section.

 

2. NEW sample paper.... I am finishing a paper now for a conference and journal publication.... my grad advisor agreed to give it a hard look too.

 

3. Revise my SOP:  More attention to "program fit" and my career goals.....and include more specifics instead of the YADDA YADDAY general goals.

 

4. Teaching Experience: I graduate in June with my M.A. English  (3.95 GPA) and hope I can find something to boost the teaching resume which was very weak.

 

[Porridge]

FYI my AW was a lousy 4.5. My Q was a...144. V163. I didn't sit the subject test although it was strongly recommended for UPenn. The sample and statement are possibly the most critical of documents.

[DontHate]

I don't think GRE matters for sh*t. The best bets for improving an application are SoP and writing sample and CONNECTIONS -- try to get in good with a prof or two at a program you like.

[yellow.wallpaper]

I don't think GRE matters for sh*t. The best bets for improving an application are SoP and writing sample and CONNECTIONS -- try to get in good with a prof or two at a program you like.

 

I agree with you. SoP, Writing samples and LoRs are the most important part of your application.

 

GRE/TOEFL (in my case) are just a standard requirement meant to torture us all.

[KenAnderson]

I agree, but the programs must have some way of weeding out all the applicants.... Oregon received 176 applicants! And I heard UMASS had about the same number.  I guess I have a hard time believing that they are reading every SOP and sample paper without first looking at scores .....and on the results board, when you click the red dot for GPA and scores... there is a trend with acceptances having at least a 5.0 on the writing section..... have yet to see one with a 4.0....    

 

( and my faith in LOR's is not very high at the moment...I had letters from former Rhet and Comp faculty at Louisville and UMASS and it apparently did not help my application....I even emailed specfic POI's in both programs!)

 

Well, it is what it is. Still planing to retake the GRE's... at least for my own personal satisfaction knowing that I can do better! I have a BA in English and Writing and a MA this June in English Rhet and Comp and I scored only a 4.0 ! I think that is what I have a problem with!!! I have issues with standardized timed (yes torture tests) money making tests anyway!  Sorry for my rambling and venting..

Edited February 20, 2013 by KenAnderson

[champagne]

I have a BA in English and Writing and a MA this June in English Rhet and Comp and I scored only a 4.0 ! I think that is what I have a problem with!!! I have issues with standardize time tests anyway!  Sorry for my rambling and venting..

 

This should clue you in to how useless the writing section is on the GRE. Obviously, I've never read any of your work, but you would have to be a better writer than 9/10 of the people taking the GRE (when you consider the girth of the population taking the test).

 

Any preparation book gives a pretty good synopsis of scoring well on the exam. From what I remember, it was basically make sure you answer the question first. Also, as dumb as it sounds, I was advised to really indulge in my vocabulary. I know that using jargon is almost antithetical to good writing (as you should know), but I scored 96th percentile. Something must have stuck.

[dazedandbemused]

I agree, but the programs must have some way of weeding out all the applicants.... Oregon received 176 applicants! And I heard UMASS had about the same number.  I guess I have a hard time believing that they are reading every SOP and sample paper without first looking at scores .....and on the results board, when you click the red dot for GPA and scores... there is a trend with acceptances having at least a 5.0 on the writing section..... have yet to see one with a 4.0....    

 

( and my faith in LOR's is not very high at the moment...I had letters from former Rhet and Comp faculty at Louisville and UMASS and it apparently did not help my application....I even emailed specfic POI's in both programs!)

 

Well, it is what it is. Still planing to retake the GRE's... at leat for my own personal satisfaction knowing that I can do better! I have a BA in English and Writing and a MA this June in English Rhet and Comp and I scored only a 4.0 ! I think that is what I have a problem with!!! I have issues with standardize time tests anyway!  Sorry for my rambling and venting..

 

FWIW, a lot of people haven't been putting their numbers on the board. I don't, not because I'm ashamed, but because I honestly don't remember them exactly and I don't feel like looking them up. I did, however get a 4.0 on the writing section and I got 89% on the verbal. Also, if anyone cares about the GRE, it's going to be the graduate school and they often get apps after the process is over. I have heard however, that it really is normal for people to start with the writing sample. In fact, it is entirely possible that your writing sample hasn't even been read fully; I was told by someone on an adcomm that they only read about five pages total; the first two and the last three. As for the SOP, it is very important to have a voice. And I don't mean voice like, jokey or "fun", but you don't want to sound like Mr. Generic Applicant either. So yeah, they probably aren't reading everything, but they are reading enough to get a general understanding of your voice as an applicant. It's in the later part of the process that they really do a thorough reading.

[AurantiacaStella]

I got a 4.0 on the writing, and I have been admitted to two programs with funding in the 20Ks. So it really doesn't matter, but on the other hand, there are strategies for getting a better score that are pretty easy to follow. Glad you're still enthuasiatic about the process, KenAnderson. This is my second time around, and I can't imagine doing it again. So hopefully next time will do the trick for you (who's to say you won't get in this time with three more programs still to hear from though?).

[KenAnderson]

Good to hear the different feedback... you all have valid points   

[Gwendolyn]

I'm with everyone else on this one. Statement of purpose is probably the most important part of  the package. Sometimes people also don't realize that they're getting crappy letters of recommendations. 

[Vavasor]

I don't think GRE matters for sh*t. The best bets for improving an application are SoP and writing sample and CONNECTIONS -- try to get in good with a prof or two at a program you like.

I'd be shocked if they made much of the Writing section of the GRE. They have a 10 to 25 page sample of the kind of writing that matters (research writing) which by comparrison should have a lot more weight for obvious reasons. As to the subject test, my undergraduate advisor said that if I applied there for graduate work (I didn't) my score could be an advantage just because so few of their applicants have a decent one.

[egwynn]

I've done this process twice now.  The first time, I applied to programs that were MA and programs that were direct-entry PhD.  I did not get into any of the direct-entry programs.  When I applied for PhD programs again this past fall, I went back and re-read my applications materials from last time.  They were a disaster.  The SoP had a "personal hook" opening that made me feel uncomfortable to read, the goals were too general, the writing sample was not sharp enough, and my GRE subject test scores were 60th percentile.  Clearly it was the letters that got me in the first time (and clearly the PhD programs were right in declining me, as I was obviously not prepared for that level of work at that point).  

 

This time, I have equally good letters.  But I have also bumped my GRE subject 20% (so nothing that impresses, but I am not ashamed of it); I have a much more detailed, directed, and specific SoP with nothing personal in it: it is all academic and ranges from my current work to my proposed dissertation to the resources that each school has that are pertinent to my work; and I have a much better writing sample.

 

And I don't know if dazedandbemused is right about how much of the writing sample they read, but they certainly got "voice" from me even in that short a space: my paper finishes with a dirty joke.  Good luck going forward, Ken.  I recommend doing whatever you can to get your current/past profs to read your materials and give you feedback.  You might also benefit from having people who have gone through this process (and, ideally, succeeded) proofread and edit for you.

Edited February 20, 2013 by lons

[Taco Superior]

I already covered this in the "Plan B" thread, but I'll refresh here (in case anyone wants to message me I'd be happy to chat): It's my 3rd time applying and I got into a solid program with full fellowship for 6 years and nominated for additional (American Studies) fellowship. I did retake the GRE (170 v, 151 q, 5.0) mostly because I skipped the math section the first time. I wrote new sample and statement and looked for fit in my programs. I'm 36 and have been working in construction for 12 years so I had a lot of 'splaining to do in my SOP. I've had a lot of help along the way and would be happy to pay it forward in terms of what insight i've gained in 3 years of apps.

[DontHate]

Congrats Paul, that's a very cool story. I want to be just like you!

[Taco Superior]

Congrats Paul, that's a very cool story. I want to be just like you!

Your compliments have a funny way of sounding sarcastic, but I take it that's just your way. And tone is very hard to read in webchat land... Anyhow being just like me is not especially fun, so be careful.

[Porridge]

I already covered this in the "Plan B" thread, but I'll refresh here (in case anyone wants to message me I'd be happy to chat): It's my 3rd time applying and I got into a solid program with full fellowship for 6 years and nominated for additional (American Studies) fellowship. I did retake the GRE (170 v, 151 q, 5.0) mostly because I skipped the math section the first time. I wrote new sample and statement and looked for fit in my programs. I'm 36 and have been working in construction for 12 years so I had a lot of 'splaining to do in my SOP. I've had a lot of help along the way and would be happy to pay it forward in terms of what insight i've gained in 3 years of apps.

 

It makes me feel so relieved to hear you are also a fellow "oldie".

 

ETA: I'm 35.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Porridge

[KenAnderson]

Okay, now that brings up another topic, age!   obvioulsy they know by DOB, etc...  when you are older, you start to wonder if the age factor  comes into play.....it does in the job market!!   I am 48 and I am the oldest in my MA graduate program...

[Porridge]

Okay, now that brings up another topic, age!   obvioulsy they know by DOB, etc...  when you are older, you start to wonder if the age factor  comes into play.....it does in the job market!!   I am 48 and I am the oldest in my MA graduate program...

 

 

You have my instant respect. Age worried me too - in some respects, I'm already considered too old in my current industry.

 

However, let's be honest:

 

1. We have work experience.

2. We understand schedules.

3. We don't know what a 40 hour week is. 80hour - no probs (actually, in one of my gigs, I worked 24 hours).

4. We know what we want.

 

If you want I can send you my SOP.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Porridge

[Taco Superior]

It makes me feel so relieved to hear you are also a fellow "oldie".

 

ETA: I'm 35.

 

 

Okay, now that brings up another topic, age!   obvioulsy they know by DOB, etc...  when you are older, you start to wonder if the age factor  comes into play.....it does in the job market!!   I am 48 and I am the oldest in my MA graduate program...

 

Oldies unite!

I was worried about this too. It helped when one of my advisors said it wasn't that big a factor in his opinion (and he's frequently on admissions committees at a UC).

 

The other thing I had to figure out how to massage was a very turbulent period in my early twenties (including leaving one school in my senior year and finishing at another a few years later). In my first app cycles I went into too much detail about my troubles; in the most recent, I glossed over it in a few sentences.

 

I would also send you my SOP if you needed it, Ken.

[DontHate]

I was always very grateful for the presence of "more mature" students in my undergrad classes, particularly fiction writing workshops. Their work wasn't as narcissistic and auto-biographical, it had much more depth and range than that of the 19-year-olds (myself among them).

 

I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm 24 but I have an old soul, and I really think it's great that you decided to do something different, tried for 3 years, and did it. That's very cool.

[KenAnderson]

Porridge:

 

Thanks for the comments and for the offer to see your SOP, but I feel awkward about making that a point in my SOP...I would like to be accepted or denied on my academic merits, not on how old I am and remarking on my experience, maturity, etc....or that I grew up in a poor family ( I am avoiding the Life-time network movie narrative in my SOP) but, I DO see the validity in your comments....  a family member  even said I should check the  Native American box on the graduate application...my great grandfather was Cherokee....but I refuse to play that card, and besides, it seems a bit opportunistic....everyone claims they are Native American ... I consider myself a mutt .... 

well,  it is all good information.....  thanks.

[Taco Superior]

I was always very grateful for the presence of "more mature" students in my undergrad classes, particularly fiction writing workshops. Their work wasn't as narcissistic and auto-biographical, it had much more depth and range than that of the 19-year-olds (myself among them).

 

I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm 24 but I have an old soul, and I really think it's great that you decided to do something different, tried for 3 years, and did it. That's very cool.

 

Ah! I see. I'm out of upvotes, but let me just say, "Respect."

[NowMoreSerious]

You have my instant respect. Age worried me too - in some respects, I'm already considered too old in my current industry.

 

However, let's be honest:

 

1. We have work experience.

2. We understand schedules.

3. We don't know what a 40 hour week is. 80hour - no probs (actually, in one of my gigs, I worked 24 hours).

4. We know what we want.

 

If you want I can send you my SOP.

"oldies" of the world unite!

I'm 34 and as recently as 4 years ago I was 99% sure I would never again find myself in college. An abrupt layoff and MA program later, I am on the cusp of doctoral work.

And yes, having worked long 6-7 day weeks, I certainly appreciate and relish academic work in a different way than I did when I was younger. And I did mention my previous work, briefly, to begin my SOP, but only because I could connect it to my research interests.

[The Whistler]

Wow, you guys are an inspiration. I'm 26, and I feel like not getting into grad school now is the end of the world. Somehow it always seemed to me that, even with 26 years of age, I'd be among the older grad students. Thanks for proving me wrong.

 

As far as poor conditions are concerned, I haven't mentioned mine in my SoP either. I spent most of my early childhood in a basement during the war, and my country still feels the consequences, mostly concerning economy. Plus, there's no way I could get a quality education in English literature over here. Our colleges (at least as far as English is concerned) do not really come even close to those in English speaking countries, logically. I didn't want to mention this either, since it would sound like I'm dissing my country, and I didn't want it to sound like that.

[Porridge]

Porridge:

 

Thanks for the comments and for the offer to see your SOP, but I feel awkward about making that a point in my SOP...I would like to be accepted or denied on my academic merits, not on how old I am and remarking on my experience, maturity, etc....or that I grew up in a poor family ( I am avoiding the Life-time network movie narrative in my SOP) but, I DO see the validity in your comments....  a family member  even said I should check the  Native American box on the graduate application...my great grandfather was Cherokee....but I refuse to play that card, and besides, it seems a bit opportunistic....everyone claims they are Native American ... I consider myself a mutt .... 

well,  it is all good information.....  thanks.

 

I guess my point is that my professional experiences are transferable  to the academia. Hence why I mentioned them in my SOP - it seems to have worked. I wouldn't say "I have work experience and therefore I know how to manage a schedule." But I would say:

 

"My professionalization in the field of X allowed me to develop expertise in A, B, and C. Such skills are also vital in the academic field of Z."

 

Also, about the Native American box. If you feel connected to your indigenous heritage, then yes you should tick that box. In my country you would be considered indigenous. And wonderfully so.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Porridge