SIPA

[soaps]

That may be true, but bad behavior is only encouraged by retaliation. If you want to work off stress by engaging him - and somehow I don't think it's going to work - it's best to counter him on factual grounds rather than personal attacks. 

 

He is often corrected on factual grounds, and I spend my time doing that not to "retaliate" but so that others (both on this forum now and in the future when applicants are looking at these threads) aren't misled by his posts. 

[Revolution]

I respond and correct many of your factually inaccurate statements (usually with no response from you), and regardless, you go on singing the same MBA tune no matter what. There's a reason you have the worst reputation on this subforum. You deserve to be called out, and everyone is tired of every discussion devolving into MBA school comparisons and the prestige-driven calculus that doesn't motivate most people interested in public policy. There have even been current students at top MBA programs who have contradicted what you have said in the HKS thread and you just ignore them. You are not qualified to evaluate the usefulness of public policy programs if you think the "public" in public policy is a fundamental defect. Your posts are misleading (not to mention dispiriting), and in the first place, no one here suffers the same delusion that an MPA will get them a six figure salary. If they do, they are applying to the wrong type of school.

The fact is that you don't respect anyone here because you do not respect public policy as a legitimate career path. For you it's some kind of backup and--in your grand scheme--some kind of backdoor that MBA students have told you repeatedly does not exist. You ignore them, and you go on disrespecting everyone here by devaluing the very nature of what they're trying to accomplish. I owe you nothing in return.

 

 

 

I have made several main points regarding this. First, I have raised concerns about the tuition at policy programs and the lack of funding at some of these programs, something that A LOT of admits have complained about.  Second, I stated explicitly that given my interests and career goals, a joint mba with hks or sais is very appealing.  However, my concern is whether i should attend a policy program alone if i don't get into any of the mba programs i applied to. Simply put, given the high opportunity cost, can a SAIS or HKS alone, get me to where I need to be career-wise? And on that front, I have heard mixed things, and this is a legitimate concern.  Third, I never disparaged public policy or people's desire to enter the field; I have not hid the fact that my interest is primarily in the private sector.  Heck, my SAIS personal statement was all about macro investing and research, with not a single word on diplomacy, public policy, or government. 

Edited March 14, 2013 by Revolution

[biscuits]

I'm not going to engage on this any further, but I think it's pretty clear from his general tone that he's quite angry (and thus perhaps not the best source of knowledge out there). I respect your intentions, but trust in people to do their own research and fact-checking. If they can't do it now, how are they possibly going to cope in grad school?

[soaps]

Third, I never disparaged public policy or people's desire to enter the field

 

You have disparaged every school in every school-specific thread, and by implication everyone who attends them. This is just from the last hour alone:

 

"SIPA is a cash cow for columbia that gives basically no aid and gets the full price from rich internationals who are not smart enough to get into a top grad program but wants the columbia ivy league pedigree."

 

You say the same kind of stuff consistently in every thread.

[JFactor]

Revolution is clearly very finance/private sector-oriented, which is fine. But I agree that he constantly questions the intelligence of IR/public policy students. I'm a big boy and I can take it but it's clear he is very driven by prestige and reputation factors. I'm sure a lot of MBA students think about MPP/MIA students in a condescending way but that shouldn't come as a surprise given how we know what kind of d-bags many of the MBA people are in real life. This is just my impression of what's going on.

 

If you want to work in finance or in consulting etc., Revolution has a point about these programs. But if you want to work in international/multilateral organizations, in the government, in think tanks or even in some segments of the private sector that require policy analysis skills, SIPA/SAIS/Fletcher etc. are very good programs, if not the best programs, for you.

[Pinkman]

man, i dont know what world u live in, but putting sais or sfs ahead of hks or wws, thats idealistic at best..

 

Its called an opinion. And also I was framing it from more of an IR standpoint. I mentioned that point in my post. No way am I disparaging HKS or WWS but I was talking specific IR programs.

[Pinkman]

SIPA is a cash cow for columbia that gives basically no aid and gets the full price from rich internationals who are not smart enough to get into a top grad program but wants the columbia ivy league pedigree.

 

A little harsh I'd say. SIPA is a good program and clearly people applying are smart enough.Get over yourself.

[Tom-MPP]

US News just published their new rankings, if anyone is interested (this one's for public affairs)

 

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-public-affairs-schools/public-affairs-rankings

Edited March 14, 2013 by Tom-MPP

[Pinaman]

US News just published their new rankings, if anyone is interested (this one's for public affairs)

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-public-affairs-schools/public-affairs-rankings

It's the same old rankings!!!!

[anxiousmom50]

How can they state that Yale does not offer a program in Public affairs, and therefore can't be ranked? What do they call the Jackson school?

Edited March 14, 2013 by anxiousmom50

[soaps]

It's the same old rankings!!!!

 

And so very, very inaccurate. 

[riverguide]

hey guys, lets keep it cool; ok fair enough, revolution is bashing at PP/IR programs, but soapwater ur personally attacking him by saying "he's not good enough"; how do u know that; i havent seen him personally attack or offend ppl; he just complains about schools and not ppl, which is a freedom of speech;

 

i can understand though that, as a PP/IR hopeful, u dont want someone talking negatively about a school that u may attend soon, which is psychological; but stand above it, revolution wont be the first or last dude to challenge u on going to PP/IR school, i speak from experience..

 

Revolution, on 14 Mar 2013 - 01:09, said:

"Thanks man. Yeah I've been fantasizing about going to a top b-school for a while and have worked my butt off for it. My dream combo is wharton-hks. I felt absolutely nothing when i got into sais with fellowship, but getting into a top b-school such as Wharton will be the greatest day of my life and the mba will be a truly transformational experience professionally, personally, and socially. As much as I like SAIS' curriculum, it just won't do the same: questionable private sector placement, and I don't think I will learn that much from my classmates."

Edited March 15, 2013 by riverguide

[Kadisha]

i have a question for SIPA applicants, or maybe even those who decided not to apply....

how does SIPA match up to policy programs at duke, carnegie mellon, michigan, uchicago, nyu, Berkeley, WWS, HKS? 

 

I ask because I've noticed many of the applicant to these programs are waiting on SIPA, but at surface, the program isn't as well ranked. is this a case where rankings don't reflect the strength of the program? or is it the NYC factor? 

 

Don't know what rankings you're looking at, but here's one according to Foreign Policy Magazine. SIPA ranks 6th. 

 

If we're to take rankings by magazines seriously, then you have to consider that if a university is good at one thing then it doesn't mean it's good at everything, and that also applies to Ivy Leagues' as well. I know Brown University has an IA program, but you don't see anyone here talking about it. However I'm sure it's the top choice for all out of med school students. 

 

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/03/top_ten_international_relations_masters_programs

[Kadisha]

That may be true, but bad behavior is only encouraged by retaliation. If you want to work off stress by engaging him - and somehow I don't think it's going to work - it's best to counter him on factual grounds rather than personal attacks. 

 

I really understand how you guys are trying to keep things civil, but I guess it's just a matter of character. Those of us who are more aggressive versus those of us who are more relaxed about things. 

 

I can tell you for sure that if he was in my class at SAIS (for example) and approached the discussions in class with the same attitude I would make it a point to factually hammer him at every occasion possible. Why? It's because there are certain people that do not appreciate what they get. They think they are entitled to certain things just because they were mildy successful earlier. Then they think they are better than other people, because they have different goals.

 

I'm sorry but I've been to the crappiest places on the planet, and saw the destitute that people, who were not blessed to be born to rich parents or in a first world country,  live in. Revolution is in no way a good fit for IA programs, because government affairs programs require to have a sense of selflessness, and this guy has none. 

 

And on a side note, nobody likes whiners.

[Pinkman]

Honestly, with that smug attitude Revolution has, how would he fare at a grad school like SAIS? I would think very badly. IA/IR programs are generally quite community driven (especially in schools like Fletcher, SAIS, SFS) and having a holier then thou attitude would surely alienate him from his classmates?

[biscuits]

What's the point of wasting aggression and energy on, for all intents and purposes, a collection of ones and zeros on the Internet? Save up your capital for when you can actually make a difference. Terrible attitudes will out themselves and make someone virtually unemployable in the type of work you are discussing. Besides, Revolution has made it clear that he has no interest in that type of work. You can argue that he's taking up a spot that should rightfully go to some paragon of social justice, but the fact is that different perspectives are infinitely more interesting (and useful) than a chorus of lock-step agreement. Dude may come off as something of a tool. (Sorry.) But these types of people exist in the world, and, like it or not, you'll most assuredly encounter them while attempting to accomplish your own policy goals. Pure and simple aggression is not the way to do it. Figure out the most efficient and productive path around them instead - or better yet, find a way to get them on board. Revolution here does not have a serious impact on your life. But imagine a key funder with a similar mindset, or a manager, a politician - any key stakeholder that's acting like a nakedly privileged ass. Calling him out on his assholery to his face is not going to get you where you want to go.

[Kadisha]

What's the point of wasting aggression and energy on, for all intents and purposes, a collection of ones and zeros on the Internet? Save up your capital for when you can actually make a difference. Terrible attitudes will out themselves and make someone virtually unemployable in the type of work you are discussing. Besides, Revolution has made it clear that he has no interest in that type of work. You can argue that he's taking up a spot that should rightfully go to some paragon of social justice, but the fact is that different perspectives are infinitely more interesting (and useful) than a chorus of lock-step agreement. Dude may come off as something of a tool. (Sorry.) But these types of people exist in the world, and, like it or not, you'll most assuredly encounter them while attempting to accomplish your own policy goals. Pure and simple aggression is not the way to do it. Figure out the most efficient and productive path around them instead - or better yet, find a way to get them on board. Revolution here does not have a serious impact on your life. But imagine a key funder with a similar mindset, or a manager, a politician - any key stakeholder that's acting like a nakedly privileged ass. Calling him out on his assholery to his face is not going to get you where you want to go.

 

Makes absolute sense, however I think you kind of addressed our issue in the same post. Right now there seems to be three different personalities reflected that deal with issues in distinct ways. We can argue about the pros and cons of each, but I think you would agree that everyone has their own different methods of dealing with a negative situation. 

[biscuits]

I'll drink to that!

[Kadisha]

[Pinkman]

What's the point of wasting aggression and energy on, for all intents and purposes, a collection of ones and zeros on the Internet? Save up your capital for when you can actually make a difference. Terrible attitudes will out themselves and make someone virtually unemployable in the type of work you are discussing. Besides, Revolution has made it clear that he has no interest in that type of work. You can argue that he's taking up a spot that should rightfully go to some paragon of social justice, but the fact is that different perspectives are infinitely more interesting (and useful) than a chorus of lock-step agreement. Dude may come off as something of a tool. (Sorry.) But these types of people exist in the world, and, like it or not, you'll most assuredly encounter them while attempting to accomplish your own policy goals. Pure and simple aggression is not the way to do it. Figure out the most efficient and productive path around them instead - or better yet, find a way to get them on board. Revolution here does not have a serious impact on your life. But imagine a key funder with a similar mindset, or a manager, a politician - any key stakeholder that's acting like a nakedly privileged ass. Calling him out on his assholery to his face is not going to get you where you want to go.

I think most people are far from advocating he gives up his place at SAIS or any other school. I'm sure, like everyone else, he worked hard for it and congratulations to him. However, I along with the rest of the board simply want to correct his misconceptions about grad school in public policy or IR/IA. I too would prefer to remain in the private sector but slightly refined from my current role. What I dont want or expect is a six figure salary. Simply contentment in my role and progression towards a goal. If six figures is part of the package, then who am I to complain but its not my desire. Revolution, time and time again, has denigrated some fine students (they'd have to be to get into some of those schools) and thats something I'm just not cool with. We all worked hard, we all have goals. I respect his, just like he ought to respect anyone else's. 

 

I wouldnt call him out to his face, I'm sure he's probably a decent guy but perhaps a little blunt with his thoughts. I wouldnt take any pleasure in embarrassing him or anything but he really ought to reflect on his surroundings. You want an MBA, go right ahead. And the fact that he says he will not learn anything from his cohort at SAIS, highlights his ignorance. These are potentially some of the most well versed and knowledgeable folk around, and he wont make no use of that? Seriously?

 

Anyway, I have no more to say. Nothing personal Revolution.

[123seekay123]

I wouldnt call him out to his face, I'm sure he's probably a decent guy but perhaps a little blunt with his thoughts. I wouldnt take any pleasure in embarrassing him or anything but he really ought to reflect on his surroundings. You want an MBA, go right ahead. And the fact that he says he will not learn anything from his cohort at SAIS, highlights his ignorance. These are potentially some of the most well versed and knowledgeable folk around, and he wont make no use of that? Seriously?

 

Anyway, I have no more to say. Nothing personal Revolution.

 

Hopefully he'll tone things down so he stops getting people upset. I'm actually pleasantly surprised, actually, that he seems to be the exception rather than the norm. I was afraid to look at these forums until I had been accepted. 

Very excited to have gotten in where I have, I know I won't be making much money after, but hopefully doing something I love. And I hope that wherever we end up, there's a congenial atmosphere. I'm sure my fellow classmates at SAIS or Tufts will teach me a lot. I'm pretty intimidated...pretty sure everyone there is much smarter than me! 

 

Shoot me a message if you want to chat regarding my debate about SAIS-Bologna, Tufts, or Columbia if I get in 

[JFactor]

Very excited to have gotten in where I have, I know I won't be making much money after, but hopefully doing something I love. And I hope that wherever we end up, there's a congenial atmosphere. I'm sure my fellow classmates at SAIS or Tufts will teach me a lot. I'm pretty intimidated...pretty sure everyone there is much smarter than me! 

 

Shoot me a message if you want to chat regarding my debate about SAIS-Bologna, Tufts, or Columbia if I get in 

 

Don't worry, I think many if not most of us sometimes feel a little intimidated by the idea of a very competitive grad school and the people there. I think it's just human nature.

 

I will also be thinking very hard about the choice between SAIS-Bologna and Columbia (if I get in which I feel would be a slight miracle) and I have to add AU to the mix since it's giving me the best financial package by far. And maybe even Tufts too. So I'll definitely shoot you a message after we hear from Columbia!

[adollarninetynine]

lol revolution struck again while I was gone. SIPA is a pretty good school in terms of education and academix experience, but it suffers from its crappy career services and has terrible employment statistics. if you go to SIPA, make sure you are ready to hustle your butt off and you already have high quality work experience. also, don't even think about going to SIPA at full price especially if you can't pay for the cost of living in NYC.

 

SIPA's bad rep comes mostly from its high acceptance and the lack of career services mentioned above. More important, it really is famous as a cash cow for Columbia University. HKS is also to a certain extent, but HKS does provide its students with things you would expect at a high level institution like a mediocre career office, easy cross registration, networking opportunities within the university, etc. SIPA is kind of a school that does not make it any easier for its students to succeed after graduation while just collecting cash that gets redistributed mostly to other schools.

Edited March 15, 2013 by adollarninetynine

[JFactor]

lol revolution struck again while I was gone. SIPA is a pretty good school in terms of education and academix experience, but it suffers from its crappy career services and has terrible employment statistics. if you go to SIPA, make sure you are ready to hustle your butt off and you already have high quality work experience. also, don't even think about going to SIPA at full price especially if you can't pay for the cost of living in NYC.

 

Are the career services really that bad? I keep hearing slightly negative evaluations about SIPA but it's always only a sentence or two so I wonder if there are any links or information somewhere that can explain to me the basis for this reputation? I have been considering SIPA to be one of my top choices if I miraculously get in (my focus is on international trade/international political economy/policy analysis) but these comments are making me wonder about the program's value.

Edited March 15, 2013 by JFactor

[adollarninetynine]

Are the career services really that bad? I keep hearing slightly negative evaluations about SIPA but it's always only a sentence or two so I wonder if there are any links or information somewhere that can explain to me the basis for this reputation? I have been considering SIPA to be one of my top choices if I miraculously get in (my focus is on international trade/international political economy/policy analysis) but these comments are making me wonder about the program's value.

 

The reason is that at schools like Tufts or SAIS, the university as a whole invests a lot in those schools while at SIPA the university pretty much ignores it and does not deliver the quality you would expect at Columbia University. SIPA's program in international affairs is more respectable within the school but just go to SIPA's website and take a look at the employment statistics. When you factor in the fact that the school manipulated the data as best as it could and it still looks that bad, you know something is off. It doesn't mean that SIPA won't take you where you want to go. I have a few friends who went there who now work at the World Bank and all the good stuff. But in comparison to Fletcher, SAIS, WWS, or HKS where the school invests money and tries not to make it second fiddle, you will need to be sure you have good work experience and know how to network and find jobs on your own. Other than that, it is a great experience and you will learn a lot. Unfortunately, the point of professional school is to get a job.