Faculty perspectives

[terefere]

I am trying to decide which paper to submit as a writing sample. I have two papers:

1. It is an empirical paper where I collected a lot of the data myself, I developed a new measure etc., although the econometric analysis is not particularly sophisticated. It is well written.

2. A formal theory paper with a lot of math proofs etc. The argument is solid and the paper is written well-enough, although the 1st paper is probably written better.

Now, the 1st paper is probably a little bit more relevant to my future research in the sense that I am not particularly likely to become a formal theorist. (my interests are in political economy) and especially that the job market is much more favorable to empiricists. However, my math grades are far from perfect (think B range), but I did take a number of math classes, including some advanced ones.

My question is: is it a good idea to submit the theoretical paper, in hope of sending the message "hey, look, I know my math and I can use it in a sophisticated way despite my poor grades" or should that not be part of the consideration?

[BFB]

10 minutes ago, terefere said:

I am trying to decide which paper to submit as a writing sample. I have two papers:

1. It is an empirical paper where I collected a lot of the data myself, I developed a new measure etc., although the econometric analysis is not particularly sophisticated. It is well written.

2. A formal theory paper with a lot of math proofs etc. The argument is solid and the paper is written well-enough, although the 1st paper is probably written better.

Now, the 1st paper is probably a little bit more relevant to my future research in the sense that I am not particularly likely to become a formal theorist. (my interests are in political economy) and especially that the job market is much more favorable to empiricists. However, my math grades are far from perfect (think B range), but I did take a number of math classes, including some advanced ones.

My question is: is it a good idea to submit the theoretical paper, in hope of sending the message "hey, look, I know my math and I can use it in a sophisticated way despite my poor grades" or should that not be part of the consideration?

I'd send the paper that better reflects what you want to do. That sounds like #1. Your GRE and, to a lesser extent, letters should alleviate concerns about math.

[terefere]

I see, thank you!

[Kosmosis707]

Hello all, 

First off,  thank you for taking the time to share your perspectives here.  it's a great resource for those of us insane enough to consider academia!  

I've recently decided to refocus my energy towards social science research.  I was a Political Science undergrad at a top 15 university and performed exceptionally well.  I have taken a few years away to raise my son and work full-time in public administration, but I realize I have a very specific passion that can probably only be realized through academia.  

Rather than give you my life story, I'll get to the point.  My interest has a very specific regional focus (Southeast Asia - more specifically, Myanmar).  I am interested in issues of identity in the country, especially national identity. When I sit down and think of the "gaps" that I have it feels a bit overwhelming.  I have yet to visit Myanmar, though I spent a total of about 7 or 8 weeks in Thailand and Cambodia.  I have only started to crack open Burmese language books.  Also, although I conducted some exploratory research as an undergrad and took a course in quantitative methods, I never had a chance to really utilize social science methodology and produce what I think would be first rate (or even second rate) research.  

SO..I have decided to take up an MA program outside of the US to try and fill the perceived gaps I have in international experience, language skills, and research methodology.  I feel that this may help me get into a quality PhD program rather then trying to apply now.  

Right now I am juggling between two options and I am curious to get your opinions on if these will be valuable for a candidate for comparative politics:   

1) A 1 year MA in Southeast Asian Studies at Chulalongkorn University in Thailand.  Although many people seem to state that U.S. schools are always the way to go, it seems learning about Southeast Asia in Southeast Asia is a good way to fill several of those gaps (international exp, offers Burmese language).  However, I am concerned about the program's lack of international reputation (although it is a top uni in Thailand) and I'm also concerned about getting the methodology experience I would need at a PhD level. I have considered going for a 2nd Masters in Comparative Politics from the LSE (also a 1 year program), following Thailand to hopefully fill that gap.  

2) A 1.5 year MA in Asia Pacific Studies from Australian National University.  ANU is a world class university for my region of interest and has a much better global reputation.  However, the program also seems to lack political science research methodology course options (aside from ethnography courses) and has limited language study options.  

I guess I am just curious to know if these options would fill my perceived gaps.  Or maybe there's another option I'm not seeing?  

Thanks and sorry for the long post.  

[cooperstreet]

International Experience is nice but its that about it. I dont think its as important as the GREs, LORs, GPA, statement, etc.

[BFB]

17 hours ago, Kosmosis707 said:

1) A 1 year MA in Southeast Asian Studies at Chulalongkorn University in Thailand.  Although many people seem to state that U.S. schools are always the way to go, it seems learning about Southeast Asia in Southeast Asia is a good way to fill several of those gaps (international exp, offers Burmese language).  However, I am concerned about the program's lack of international reputation (although it is a top uni in Thailand) and I'm also concerned about getting the methodology experience I would need at a PhD level. I have considered going for a 2nd Masters in Comparative Politics from the LSE (also a 1 year program), following Thailand to hopefully fill that gap.  

2) A 1.5 year MA in Asia Pacific Studies from Australian National University.  ANU is a world class university for my region of interest and has a much better global reputation.  However, the program also seems to lack political science research methodology course options (aside from ethnography courses) and has limited language study options.  

I guess I am just curious to know if these options would fill my perceived gaps.  Or maybe there's another option I'm not seeing?  

 

Probably ANU would have more name recognition and would convey more substantive expertise, especially given the extra time spent there. I wouldn't worry about the lack of methods training -- Ph.D. programs all have "start from scratch" options.

[j.persephone]

Hi there!

Thank you all so much for your advice. 

If a program says a writing sample is optional, under what conditions would you recommend sending one? 

I had 98-99th percentile scores on the Verbal and AWA section of the GRE, so the admissions committee should not have strong reasons to doubt my writing ability. I discuss research ideas in the SOP that I hope are a compelling demonstration of my ability to think about new directions political science research.

 

The main disadvantage to sending one would be that my best writing samples are somewhat outside of the research I want to do in the future (same subfield, totally different topics). 

 

The advice I have gotten has been mixed. I would really appreciate any insight you have. 

[BFB]

45 minutes ago, j.persephone said:

If a program says a writing sample is optional, under what conditions would you recommend sending one? 

All conditions?

If it's off topic, the committee can still assess quality of mind. If you leave one out, it just raises questions. I really don't see an upside to omitting the sample.

[j.persephone]

13 minutes ago, BFB said:

All conditions?

If it's off topic, the committee can still assess quality of mind. If you leave one out, it just raises questions. I really don't see an upside to omitting the sample.

That makes sense. Thank you so much! 

[midweststudent]

I'll mirror what others have said: Thank you BFB for taking the time to form this thread and answer our questions! It's always helpful to get some type of clarification from an individual on the other end of the admissions process.

I have one concern I'm hoping you might be able to shed some light on and help me settle. Like most other students in this cycle, I couldn't take a break after submitting my applications and have thus looked over my material a few times in the past few days. However, this was a bad idea because I've spotted a point on my writing sample where I have a grammar mistake/missing word--something I expect I was only able to spot after having taken a small break and re-developing "fresh eyes." 

From what I've read on other forums and websites, there seems to be a consensus that there is absolutely no leeway on spelling or grammar errors in an application or its supporting material. As you can imagine, this is pretty disheartening for me--and I'm guessing others as well who might be in this situation, knowingly or unknowingly. My question, then, is from your experience, is this true? How important is it that everything is flawless in this regard? I'm frustrated with myself that I didn't catch this in the numerous times I looked over my material, but it surely can't be the case that something like this would automatically disqualify someone--even in the final rounds of the admissions committee's deliberations...

Edited January 4, 2016 by midweststudent

[BFB]

 No worries. Seriously. I've seen sentences cut-and-pasted into the wrong place, I've seen a half-paragraph devoted to telling me why a different department is an ideal fit for a student's interests, I've seen undeleted outlines, I've seen a POI's last name persistently misspelled, I've seen MSWord documents saved as PDF with the review comments included (my favorite was the student whose comment on his or her own last paragraph was "Meh")... and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. It takes quite a bit more than a simple typo or grammatical mistake to put a dent in our overall evaluations.

[midweststudent]

23 minutes ago, BFB said:

 No worries. Seriously. I've seen sentences cut-and-pasted into the wrong place, I've seen a half-paragraph devoted to telling me why a different department is an ideal fit for a student's interests, I've seen undeleted outlines, I've seen a POI's last name persistently misspelled, I've seen MSWord documents saved as PDF with the review comments included (my favorite was the student whose comment on his or her own last paragraph was "Meh")... and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. It takes quite a bit more than a simple typo or grammatical mistake to put a dent in our overall evaluations.

Thank you for that (fast) reply. That helps to calm my fears a bit.

[elw]

On 1/4/2016 at 11:46 PM, BFB said:

(my favorite was the student whose comment on his or her own last paragraph was "Meh")

 Any of those applicants admitted?

[BFB]

1 minute ago, elwright said:

 Any of those applicants admitted?

Honestly, I don't recall (and shouldn't say even if I did). But I'm certain it made virtually no difference in our evaluations. People are human.

[Moofasa]

I also want to thank you for this thread. I just have one question, do you think that the field would benefit if the process was made more transparent? Like if (25th, 50th, and 75th percentiles) for GREs and GPAs, average age, experience.. etc are required to be released by programs. This whole process, with the exception of some programs, seems to be purposely made opaque. And if you do think it would, why hasn't the field taken the steps to make it that way?

[BFB]

8 hours ago, Moofasa said:

I also want to thank you for this thread. I just have one question, do you think that the field would benefit if the process was made more transparent? Like if (25th, 50th, and 75th percentiles) for GREs and GPAs, average age, experience.. etc are required to be released by programs. This whole process, with the exception of some programs, seems to be purposely made opaque. And if you do think it would, why hasn't the field taken the steps to make it that way?

You're welcome!

I do think transparency would help, but not the statistics you mention. Posting that information would be really misleading because it doesn't matter that much. We pass up students with GREs in the 90th percentile if (for example) they're a bad fit, or their statement strikes us as not reflecting the quality of mind that we're looking for. We also pursue students with GREs in the 40th percentile, or GPAs in the low 2s, if their advisors swear they walk on water / it's a great statement / the reasons for the bad grades make sense / etc. GREs and GPAs tend to correlate with things that interest us, it's true—but far more loosely than most people believe.

[Determinedandnervous]

I have two questions about the admissions process with the OSU political science department, since I applied there (and I'm now anxiously awaiting the results). They center around the interviews, in particular.

1) If I don't end up receiving a request for an interview, does that mean I'm not in the running for acceptance? I saw someone got an interview request on the results page, and it's making me a little nervous.

2) Who tends to conduct the interviews?

I'd like to echo the previous posters in thanking you for answering our questions about the process. You're adding transparency to an opaque process, and that helps us all a lot.

[BFB]

4 minutes ago, Determinedandnervous said:

I have two questions about the admissions process with the OSU political science department, since I applied there (and I'm now anxiously awaiting the results). They center around the interviews, in particular.

1) If I don't end up receiving a request for an interview, does that mean I'm not in the running for acceptance? I saw someone got an interview request on the results page, and it's making me a little nervous.

No, it doesn't. It either means that you're not in the running or that you are in the running but the person given your file doesn't feel the need to call you. I get some "This person's great, I don't need to call to tell that." I also get some people who simply don't like making calls. It could also mean that the person given the file doesn't have time to call (this year, unfortunately, our call period overlaps the SPSA meeting... in Puerto Rico.)

4 minutes ago, Determinedandnervous said:

2) Who tends to conduct the interviews?

The whole faculty. The committee hands out medium-list files to POIs. Those POIs give us feedback. They're free to call or not to call -- it's up to them.

4 minutes ago, Determinedandnervous said:

I'd like to echo the previous posters in thanking you for answering our questions about the process. You're adding transparency to an opaque process, and that helps us all a lot.

I hope so. And thanks.

[GradSchoolTruther]

Is more transparency good? People here seem to think transparency just means posting minimum GPA/GRE scores. Think that does some harm in that it discourages some qualified candidates from applying. Others would argue they need that info to decide whether to spend time and money applying. I think grad-school applicants need greater self-awareness and initiative, and an applicant with poor GPA/GRE scores who has those attributes would find a program.

[PizzaCat93]

Hi BFB, when do you expect OSU's decisions will be going out? I know funding does not come until much later, but should admissions be coming soon?

[BFB]

9 hours ago, PizzaCat93 said:

Hi BFB, when do you expect OSU's decisions will be going out? I know funding does not come until much later, but should admissions be coming soon?

Here's the thing. Last year I answered this question based on what I thought the Graduate School had said it was going to do, and it ended up taking almost a week longer than I'd thought it would to get admissions news out to applicants. During that week, the quantity of anxious email that I received was quite considerable. So I am very, very reluctant to go on the record promising that news will be out by any particular date certain. But given the deadlines that I've received, late January to early February would be a reasonable expectation. andpleasedon'tblamemeifthat'swrong

[bsc]

1) How are admissions committees generally broken up by subfield? Do departments generally try to have an even subfield distribution or is that not relevant? Also, do committee members only read applications from within their subfield?

2) How much weight do the professional/personal relationships between professors have in terms of evaluating recommendation letters? I know this probably varies greatly, but in your experience do recommendation letters coming from professors who have established relationships with a member of the committee generally get taken more seriously?

Thank you!

 

[BFB]

On January 16, 2016 at 7:45 PM, bsc said:

1) How are admissions committees generally broken up by subfield? Do departments generally try to have an even subfield distribution or is that not relevant? Also, do committee members only read applications from within their subfield?

I don't know how it's done elsewhere, but we have representatives of all subfields on the committee. I'm not sure how you'd really judge the files, the fit of the candidate, etc. if you didn't, so I'd guess that's how it's generally done, but I don't know for sure.

On January 16, 2016 at 7:45 PM, bsc said:

2) How much weight do the professional/personal relationships between professors have in terms of evaluating recommendation letters? I know this probably varies greatly, but in your experience do recommendation letters coming from professors who have established relationships with a member of the committee generally get taken more seriously?

I don't know that personal relationships matter so much. What matters is credibility, and knowing someone personally is one way to gauge credibility. (Note that this can go either way!) Another is to see multiple letters from the same person. I know one professor who writes letters often enough that I can get a pretty good sense of credibility, and a "top 10%" letter from this person means exactly that. In another case, I saw two different letters for two different people from the same professor in the same year, each one stating that this was the best person s/he'd worked with in 30 years of teaching. Major credibility fail. I know both of these people personally as well as professionally, but that's sort of beside the point. Does that make sense?

[Syas]

Hey BFB,

Thanks for taking your time for responding to our questions. Given that some applicants received their acceptances from OSU, does "Pending"  in an application status mean that the application has been rejected?

 

Thanks. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Syas
Grammar

[BFB]

22 minutes ago, Syas said:

Hey BFB,

Thanks for taking your time for responding to our questions. Given that some applicants received their acceptances from OSU, does "Pending"  in an application status mean that the application has been rejected?

 

Thanks. 

Man, you people are on the ball.

In this case, no, it doesn't. It means that our Grad Coordinator got an early start on entering acceptances. They're all due by end of day Friday, though I have no idea how long it takes them to get to applicants once they've been posted. (Apparently less than a day....)