Faculty perspectives

[BFB]

How are the writing samples unrelated to applicant's declared area of interest (different topic, different subfield, different methodology etc) evaluated by adcoms? If for example an applicant wants to do EITM style formal and empirical IPE, but the writing sample is a qualitative area studies paper, would that be a problem?

 

It's not optimal, I'd say. Absent any explanation, my guess would be that someone who says that's what they want to do either doesn't know what they want to do or is trying to play to my department's strengths. If going this route, I'd include a few sentences explaining what it was that made you See The Light and choose to change directions.

[BFB]

Hi all, many thanks for your invaluable input. 

 

My question is this: Is it preferable to have a fully fleshed out research project included in your statement, or a more general series of questions that you would like to focus on in the future? 

Totally depends on how good the research project is 

 

If you know you've got a strong project and a strong direction, write about it, and run a draft past at least one professor for feedback. Questions are safer, but they're also (slightly) lower payoff.

 

The main things you want to convey are professionalization and quality of mind. Those trump project vs. question, IMO. Most people don't stick with a project or a question all the way through graduate school anyway—if they did, we wouldn't be doing a very good job.

[BFB]

GRE writing scores are useless, right?

 

You never know. Here, the Grad School controls the money, and admitting someone with a <4 score on the analytical section costs us a waiver. We have a limited number of waivers. So we have more leeway to admit people with analyticals above 4. That said, if your file is otherwise really compelling, you'll probably be high on the list for waivers.

[gradcafe26]

Thanks for your great suggestions BFB, just a few quick questions building on what you just said here:

1. It seems that you are suggesting that AW score only matters for funding, not for admission. But if my AW score is exactly 4, it wouldn't affect funding either, at least in your program. Is that correct?

2. I have both a core project and several related questions in my SOP, and as a result my SOP is about 1000-1100 words. Is that too much information to include in the statement?

3. My writing sample is statistical, but no modelling stuff in it. In that case do you think it's wise to emphasize interest in formal modelling in the SOP? In terms of coursework related to modelling, I only have one undergrad micro, plus a few math courses that may be useful as well.

4. Right now I'm tailoring my statement for the programs that I'm applying for. But at the same time, there is still room to improve my writing sample with several statistical tools developed by econometricians in the last decade. So in terms of time management, which one do you think will yield a higher payoff?

5. Do you think we should to email professors of interest about whether they will be taking students next year? Some profs may be moving, or they may already have enough students to supervise, etc...

Thanks again!

[cooperstreet]

Before the great Bear jumps in here, I would quickly add that I don't think many people will have extensive formal models in their writing sample, at least compared to more general statistical analysis. I think its really hard to write models before you have a lot of game theory/micro coursework. It doesn't take THAT much skills to run some regressions (takes a lot to do it right).

 

[BFB]

Thanks for your great suggestions BFB, just a few quick questions building on what you just said here:

1. It seems that you are suggesting that AW score only matters for funding, not for admission. But if my AW score is exactly 4, it wouldn't affect funding either, at least in your program. Is that correct?

 

2. I have both a core project and several related questions in my SOP, and as a result my SOP is about 1000-1100 words. Is that too much information to include in the statement?

3. My writing sample is statistical, but no modelling stuff in it. In that case do you think it's wise to emphasize interest in formal modelling in the SOP? In terms of coursework related to modelling, I only have one undergrad micro, plus a few math courses that may be useful as well.

4. Right now I'm tailoring my statement for the programs that I'm applying for. But at the same time, there is still room to improve my writing sample with several statistical tools developed by econometricians in the last decade. So in terms of time management, which one do you think will yield a higher payoff?

5. Do you think we should to email professors of interest about whether they will be taking students next year? Some profs may be moving, or they may already have enough students to supervise, etc...

Thanks again!

 

1. Correct

 

2. Naah, I wouldn't worry about it. The real question is, how focused is it? 1100 words isn't too much unless you could've conveyed the same thing in 500 words.

 

3. Yes; emphasize interest in modeling and if possible discuss how that jibes with your existing strengths.

 

4. Difficult to predict. My own take would be, I care whether you're using the right method, not how recent it is. If the existing writing sample gives you solid, defensible answers, focus on tailoring. If the answers are flawed, focus on the results.

 

5. Never hurts.

[BFB]

Before the great Bear jumps in here, I would quickly add that I don't think many people will have extensive formal models in their writing sample, at least compared to more general statistical analysis. I think its really hard to write models before you have a lot of game theory/micro coursework. It doesn't take THAT much skills to run some regressions (takes a lot to do it right).

 

 

Agreed on both counts.

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

Out of curiosity, how many of these waivers are floating around each admissions cycle? 

 

On a less serious note, are they for sale?

[BFB]

Out of curiosity, how many of these waivers are floating around each admissions cycle? 

 

On a less serious note, are they for sale?

 

Ballpark, one waiver for every two applicants. But an applicant can require a waiver either for GREs or for GPA.

 

As to #2, I wish. Actually, I just wish the waiver system would go away. It's the Graduate School's method of quality control, but all applications are evaluated by a faculty committee anyway, so they're both redundant and annoying.

[TorrentOfArdentPathos]

I have a question that my mentors have given me mixed feedback on:

 

How important is it to stick to the recommended length for personal statements?

 

I have been told by one mentor that I should cut my PS to make sure that I am within the recommended length.  Another told me that I should not cut anything meaningful out of my statement, even if that means ignoring the recommended length.

[BFB]

I have a question that my mentors have given me mixed feedback on:

 

How important is it to stick to the recommended length for personal statements?

 

I have been told by one mentor that I should cut my PS to make sure that I am within the recommended length.  Another told me that I should not cut anything meaningful out of my statement, even if that means ignoring the recommended length.

 

I doubt there's a uniform answer to this. In our case, the recommended length (which I think is 2pp) is well below the committee's tl;dr length, so going over by a bit to include something meaningful would be a good idea.

[jazzrap]

I doubt there's a uniform answer to this. In our case, the recommended length (which I think is 2pp) is well below the committee's tl;dr length, so going over by a bit to include something meaningful would be a good idea.

Professor, thank you for the information. I have another question.

 

I sent my GRE scores in mid-October, but only created my application accounts for most programs in late October. Is it fine? Or you think schools might find it hard to match my profiles with the scores that were delivered to them early? 

[BFB]

Professor, thank you for the information. I have another question.

 

I sent my GRE scores in mid-October, but only created my application accounts for most programs in late October. Is it fine? Or you think schools might find it hard to match my profiles with the scores that were delivered to them early? 

 

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not sure what magical process happens to connect GREs to applications—most likely, my spectacular Grad Coordinator working her butt off, as usual—but it's very effective.

[jazzrap]

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not sure what magical process happens to connect GREs to applications—most likely, my spectacular Grad Coordinator working her butt off, as usual—but it's very effective.

Thanks!!

[TorrentOfArdentPathos]

I doubt there's a uniform answer to this. In our case, the recommended length (which I think is 2pp) is well below the committee's tl;dr length, so going over by a bit to include something meaningful would be a good idea.

 

Specific-to-my-situation-follow-up: is 3.5 pages below the OSU committee's tl;dr length?  

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

Specific-to-my-situation-follow-up: is 3.5 pages below the OSU committee's tl;dr length?  

 

Out of curiosity.. single spaced or double?

[TorrentOfArdentPathos]

Out of curiosity.. single spaced or double?

 

Double.  I assumed that's the norm (and therefore what the page limits refer to).  

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

Double.  I assumed that's the norm (and therefore what the page limits refer to).  

 

Could be, not sure. So it's more like 1 3/4 pages single spaced? I won't speculate too much, but I'd guess that's okay. If it were 3.5 pages single spaced... haha

[TheGnome]

I always assumed that SoPs are expected to be single spaced, and writing samples double spaced. 

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

I always assumed that SoPs are expected to be single spaced, and writing samples double spaced. 

 

Same here. Although I did .5 space a few of them where there were no specific outlines, with the eyes of the readers in mind (because it didn't bring it to any extra pages).

[TheGnome]

Dear Prof BFB,

 

Why does the OSU application system require us to complete the whole application before sending rec. letter requests to our recommenders? This effectively drags your already pretty early deadline (30 Nov) to an even earlier date (at least early Nov or late Sep), since we want to give some space to our letter writers. Because most of the other applications are not due until mid-December, this means that there is almost a month and a half gap between the OSU deadline and the others. There are a few other schools which handle the process this way as well. I am just curious if there is a rationale for this policy - or is it just whatever graduate school decided to do back in the day for no specific reason? 

 

Thanks for all the help you provided to all of us in this forum! (big fan of the OUP book btw, will cite it in the first opportunity I get ).

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

I was also wondering if the faculty could offer a perspective on addressing "fit" in the SOPs. Namely, to what extent should we be very specific in both naming professors and identifying their past research (I'm trying to identify that line between fit and sucking up)?

[BFB]

Specific-to-my-situation-follow-up: is 3.5 pages below the OSU committee's tl;dr length?  

 

Most likely. I can't speak for the committee, but it's below mine.

 

Out of curiosity.. single spaced or double?

 

Not sure there's a rule. Personally, below a certain level of whitespace annoys the hell out of me because I can't jot notes. So double-spaced with 1" margins works, or single-spaced with wider margins (a la LaTeX).

[BFB]

Dear Prof BFB,

 

Why does the OSU application system require us to complete the whole application before sending rec. letter requests to our recommenders? This effectively drags your already pretty early deadline (30 Nov) to an even earlier date (at least early Nov or late Sep), since we want to give some space to our letter writers. Because most of the other applications are not due until mid-December, this means that there is almost a month and a half gap between the OSU deadline and the others. There are a few other schools which handle the process this way as well. I am just curious if there is a rationale for this policy - or is it just whatever graduate school decided to do back in the day for no specific reason? 

 

Probably because changing it would involve a very considerable amount of effort. This is also the answer to many other "Why does this part of admissions not make sense?" questions.

 

The thing that you need to understand about the admissions bureaucracy is this: however complicated and bureaucratic and messed-up you think it is, it's actually far worse. Academic institutions are nightmarish when it comes to efficiency, infrastructure, and so on. I used to get a file cart full of printed applications to read rolled into my office, which I would have to return so that someone else could read them. That happened as recently as 5 years ago.

 

But it all works. And the main reason it works is that a whole lot of goodhearted people work their asses off to cover up its flaws and fix its problems so that we can do the best job we can. If you visit OSU, for example, you'll meet my grad coordinator, Courtney Sanders. Please bring her flowers. She'll be spending a solid week converting the different parts of your application (letters, statements, application, cv, etc.) into a single document for the committee to read. You might point out that it should be possible to have a computer do that. You'd be absolutely right. But that's not how it's done, and Courtney picks up the slack cheerfully. The people in the Graduate School work their butts off to get everything done on a timetable as well. And so on.

 

Why are things so fundamentally messed up in the first place? I don't have the answer to that. I wish I did.

 

Thanks for all the help you provided to all of us in this forum! (big fan of the OUP book btw, will cite it in the first opportunity I get  ).

 

Thank you! Much appreciated.

Edited December 3, 2013 by BFB

[BFB]

I was also wondering if the faculty could offer a perspective on addressing "fit" in the SOPs. Namely, to what extent should we be very specific in both naming professors and identifying their past research (I'm trying to identify that line between fit and sucking up)?

 

Do lots of very specific homework, get to know relevant faculty's publications, and be as specific as you can when you're telling us who you'd like to work with. At our University, for example, it's very likely that if you name someone, that person will read your file (!!!)—so if you write that you'd love to study terrorism with Smith, but Smith studies American voting behavior, Smith will probably conclude that you're not really all that interested in coming here.

 

That said, don't overstate fit. It's not in your interest to be admitted to a department in which you don't fit, just to be a few notches higher in the rankings. When you get to the job market, most departments that are even roughly similar in rank will get your file read by the same range of schools. What matters much more than an incremental difference in rank is how well you will be trained, and that often depends on whether or not you can find an eager mentor who specializes in an area that genuinely interests you. Interests do change, so it can make sense to hedge a bit. But beyond a certain point, if you're fudging on fit, you probably shouldn't be applying.