Why are you pursuing your degree?

[Nicole D.]

Hey, everyone! First post here... I tried to search around, and while I found some threads discussing how abyssmal the job market is and how everything in the English field is horrible ( ), I have a different sort of question.

 

A bit of background on me before I ask (skip to the bottom if you're not interested!): I am currently a high school English teacher at an urban charter high school. I graduated with a BSE in English in December of 2011, and I got hired at my current school six weeks out of graduation. I had a 3.98 GPA for my undergrad. This coming fall, I will start on my master's in English part time while still teaching.

 

Perhaps I'm jumping the gun, but there's a part of me that won't stop nagging. I want to pursue my studies full-time! I enjoy teaching high school, more or less, but I miss research, and I feel like I have more to do and contribute in academia. I've had undergrad professors encourage me to go on to a doctorate. I don't feel like my mental set entirely matches that of my current colleagues.

 

That said, naturally I enjoy being financially independent. ha! I also am not sure if I am just "that good" and did everything right to get a job right after graduation or what, but it's daunting to think about giving that up when the market in secondary ed is hardly better than that at the post-secondary level. In addition, if I were to go onto a PhD, I fairly have my heart set on Penn at the moment, and I recognize the incredible odds achieving that would take.

 

 

 

All that said, my questions are these: How did you decide to pursue a PhD? What motivated you to take that path instead of a "real" job? When did you commit to that decision mentally? And perhaps as an addendum, have you ever regreted it?

 

Thank you in advance!

[smellybug]

Great questions.

 

I have a prof. who is fond of saying that if there is anything, literally ANYTHING, that you could imagine yourself doing outside of academia, do it. It's just that bad. You will have people who tell you things like this. I've had multiple people tell me I should get a Master's in Library Science instead, or a doctorate in Education. Because it's close enough, right? And the job market is quite a bit better, especially for an Ed.D. But the truth is, I think it is important to be realistic about the state of the job market while remaining realistic about all of the other options out there. In other words, I realize that finding a job might be easier, but I would not be as happy as a librarian or as an administrator as I would a professor/researcher. Period. I have worked in a couple different fields in my life and I am only now realizing the importance of aiming high. Yes, I could make a lot of things work, but I'm not just seeking a paycheck. I'm looking for a certain quality of life. (To which, people often say, teaching will not afford me. To which, I say, I guess you have never worked retail. Or management. Or food service.) It's not about chasing your dreams at any cost (in which case I would have sunk all my money in an MFA with the hope of becoming a famous writer) but rather chasing the career that affords you the lifestyle you're best suited to. I'm not talking about money, obviously. But I see my professors who are constantly thinking and learning in their day-to-day lives--constantly enriching themselves while preparing for the work day--and changing the lives of young people who are excited about literature, and then spend their summers traveling, planning classes, and writing, and I want to do that. I want to live a life of learning.

 

I realize that I may have trouble actually getting to that place, and I do have other options. But, for the next five years or six years at least, I have a job that involves learning languages, reading texts, teaching literature, and discussing my ideas. It doesn't pay well and it is finite, but I have very, very rarely heard someone say that they regretted getting a doctorate. Actually, I can't think of anyone. Even if they are not teaching, people with PhDs often say that those were the most difficult, fulfilling years of their life. You learn a lot about yourself by writing a dissertation, and that's no small thing.

 

It seems that people who regret this decision--and they usually end up dropping out--are people often ill prepared for the realities of academic life. It's really goddamned hard. But not in the way getting a 4.0 in undergrad is hard. It's hard because in order to make it worthwhile you have to be really self-motivated and love (really, really love, like almost pathologically) writing and reading. In my experience as a Master's student, you have to be a little crazy. Sometimes you have to like dead authors more than your live friends. And you have to be unable to sleep because that one sentence is just a little off. You have to wake up in the morning excited to get back to that paper you're writing. Otherwise, it's just not going to work. There is only one other person going on to a PhD at my university, I think, because people lose the fire. Or they get burnt out. I had a couple friends decide not to apply to PhD programs after beginning the thesis. They just couldn't imagine doing this for another five years. Me, I feel like I only scratched the surface with my thesis and I am eager to continue. I also had a friend drop out of a PhD program because he didn't want to teach. I get that. If you know you don't want to teach, your options are really limited. That's not to say it's not worth doing the PhD, but it helps that teaching is, for me, a really big draw.

 

I think the Master's is a good test for whether or not you want to devote your life to this somewhat insane endeavor. I decided that I wanted to pursue the PhD after I wrote my first seminar paper. It was the most satisfying, fulfilling experience I never knew a person could love. And then when I taught Freshman comp the next year it really sealed the deal. I really felt at home. I am good at a lot of things, but I think I have the proper temperament to be a good researcher and teacher. AND I'm good at it. We don't always love all the things we're good at.

 

Anyway, that's my story.

I'm really interested to see what other people have to say here.

[free_radical]

I worked in industry for a while before coming back for a PhD, so I basically made a conscious decision to give up a "real" job, with salary and benefits - so I get your reluctance at leaving the job! Here are my reasons:

 

1.) Practicality issue - in my field, you actually do need a PhD for some higher level research jobs.  BS/MS employees generally get hired to be research assistants, while PhD level researchers run the company's research program.  This is absolutely not true in other engineering fields, like Computer Science.  

 

2.) I enjoyed my industry work quite a bit - much more than academic work with no foreseeable applications - but I found out that I did want to learn how to independently plan and execute my own research project.  This is what the PhD degree teaches, and I cannot get this type of experience/training in industry.  I think I'll probably find my way back into industry after my PhD, so I'm not doing it because I particularly like academic life, but it will teach me a set of skills that I desire.  

 

I think everyone has different reasons for doing a PhD - my reasons seem to be quite a contrast to the previous poster's comment.  What's important is that YOU know what YOUR reasons for doing a PhD are.  I can also say that it was a little daunting to come back into academia after being in industry for so long - I felt so lost researching schools and writing my SOP with no academic advisors around to help me - but it was well worth the effort.  

[toasterazzi]

I've always been fairly academically inclined, and I figured I would go on to a Master's degree at some point. But I wasn't quite motivated to do so when I finished undergrad in 2010. I had gotten my degree in English Education, and I was eager to get into the classroom and teach. However, I found it utterly impossible to land a teaching job that first year. As a result, I worked in technical support for a year. I did land a teaching job the following year, but it probably wasn't one I should've taken in retrospect. Middle schoolers really aren't who I'm the best with in a classroom setting. I tend to work better with either really young kids or older ones.  By mid-year, I knew I probably wouldn't be continuing there.

 

At that point, I began to revisit my thoughts about grad school. There were some extenuating circumstances that drew me to a particular school, and I ended up getting accepted. About halfway through my first year of my Master's program, I found myself loving teaching college students and really thriving in the classroom. That was pretty much when I decided that I had to this PhD thing. 

 

I'll be applying to schools this fall. Obviously, I can't regret the decision just yet, but I don't think I will. It's a big deal for me though because I'm getting married next year and trying to drag my fiancee off somewhere for a good 5 or 6 years of my life (and at some point in that time, we plan to acquire small humans). He's pretty chill about it though

[Datatape]

 

I jest, I jest.  In actuality, I got the "if you can see yourself doing anything else, do it" speech from a few people and I agree, it's an important threshold that people should pass before they do something like this.  And the thing is... I've done other stuff.  I worked horrible, dead-end jobs (retail, telemarketing (YES, TELEMARKETING)) until I landed an okay office job that I've held for close to nine years now.  And I'm tired of it.  I love learning and I love teaching.  I made booshitdiddly as an adjunct this past year, but being in the classroom, teaching introductory writing to freshmen, was so completely energizing and invigorating - I never knew I could love a job until I started doing it.  After I wiped out in the 2012 cycle, I decided to give adjuncting a shot to see if I enjoyed it, and I more than did: to the point where I'd wake up excited on a day I would teach, even though I'd be driving 50 miles one way to the campus.

 

This cycle, I went all in, both because I knew I couldn't keep up a schedule of two full-time jobs forever and because my office job was starting to devour my soul.  I certainly didn't have the awe-inspiring success a number of people on here did (not that I was expecting to get in everywhere - I have a very odd cross-section of interests), but I ended up with two solid options and one dream program, where I will be attending in the fall.  I'm about to pack up everything I own, drive nearly 3,000 miles from Florida to Nevada, and move to a city where I know absolutely nobody outside of my grad cohort.

 

And you know what?  I can't fucking wait.  I'm about seven weeks out from moving day and every day I get more and more excited about doing what I absolutely love.  I can't see myself doing anything but working as a professor.  My 20s were all about prepping me for this moment and it's a whole new, crazy, busy, stressful, wonderful chapter in my life that I am completely and totally jazzed to start.

[Katia_chan]

This is going to sound really weird, but getting rejected countless freaking times has affirmed to me that a PHD is what I want to do.  I decided as a junior in college that I wanted to do my masters, after having a few friends older than I was start on theirs.  They all seemed to love it, and I thought it sounded pretty cool.

 

I tried to go straight for PHD, failed at that, and ended up getting accepted to a MA program at my UG school, where I absolutely did not want to go.  But I went, and it was amazing.  Did I want to throw myself under a bus sometimes? Absolutely. But over all it was exactly what I needed.

 

So I reapplied for PHD work, and got rejected across the board.  I got very lucky and an adjunct teaching job sort of fell into my lap.  I admit, I didn't love it.  Freshmen are frustrating, and comp is not what I enjoy teaching. But it kept my hand in, helped me form some new connections, and I do not regret it for a moment.  I learned a lot from those little bastards.

 

Then I applied again, and after a prolonged waitlist process, got rejected again.  And I had someone, very nicely, ask me how long I was going to continue to put myself through this, after they watched the ten-thousandth mental breakdown.  And I thought about it for a while.  My original answer, a while ago, had been that I would apply until my GRE scores ran out, because I never wanted to take the test again.  But when that friend asked me this year, I had to revise that.  Because I can't imagine a life in which I do not get a PHD, and in which I do not get to teach literature.  And it was a comforting feeling.  There are lots of jobs I could do--I could adjunct for a living and, in the right place, probably make decent money (or livable money) doing it.  But I don't think I will find a point in which I do not try to reach that dream, because I can't imagine feeling truly fulfilled until I do it.

 

That was a really long two-cents, but there you go.  I think, if you like the work you do as a MA student, you should go for it.  At the very least send in applications--that never hurts. And how you feel when you get accepted somewhere will be a good indicator for you.  If you are pleased, it's a good sign.  If you are crying and bouncing off the walls with joy, it's a great sign.  If you, at that point, don't care one way or the other, then maybe take that time to reconsider.

 

...but I push grad school like drugs, so I'm always going to say at least make the attempt.

[Nicole D.]

Thanks for all the replies! Good reading over here.

 

 I did land a teaching job the following year, but it probably wasn't one I should've taken in retrospect. Middle schoolers really aren't who I'm the best with in a classroom setting. I tend to work better with either really young kids or older ones.  By mid-year, I knew I probably wouldn't be continuing there.

 

At that point, I began to revisit my thoughts about grad school. There were some extenuating circumstances that drew me to a particular school, and I ended up getting accepted. About halfway through my first year of my Master's program, I found myself loving teaching college students and really thriving in the classroom. That was pretty much when I decided that I had to this PhD thing. 

I actually really enjoyed my student teaching in eighth grade!

 

I enjoy teaching high school, but there are parts I don't care for. For example, I have very little sympathy for students who don't come to class everyday, regardless of their home problems. I am not a social worker, but that is what's expected of teachers, more or less. I have some of my administration dropping hints that I would be good for admin, but I seriously have no desire to manage things in that way. I find myself drifting away from a passion for the curriculum / pedagogy side of things and yearning towards the content side of things. More literature, theory, and research, please!

 

Since I started college and have been teaching, nothing has been more exciting than when I've been "in the zone" of research and writing... when the perfect connection or "le mot juste" strikes and my fingers can't type fast enough ere it evaporates.

 

Anywho... Maybe I'm just burnt out from teaching--I mean, I did devote years to getting where I am now,--but I don't want to wait too terribly long trying to figure it out if I'm not totally satisfied!

[Nicole D.]

I jest, I jest.  In actuality, I got the "if you can see yourself doing anything else, do it" speech from a few people and I agree, it's an important threshold that people should pass before they do something like this.  And the thing is... I've done other stuff.  I worked horrible, dead-end jobs (retail, telemarketing (YES, TELEMARKETING)) until I landed an okay office job that I've held for close to nine years now.  And I'm tired of it.

 

This cycle, I went all in, both because I knew I couldn't keep up a schedule of two full-time jobs forever and because my office job was starting to devour my soul.

ha! Yes, I've worked retail, food service, and an office job. I worked 20 - 30 hours a week during UG, and while it had its perks (relatively low stress), my soul was also starting to be devoured! Teaching secondary school devours you soul in a whole new way, though!

Edited June 3, 2013 by Nicole D.

[ComeBackZinc]

There are many reasons that I'm pursuing my degree, most of them the same ones that are shared by the vast majority of people here. The part that would be different and relevant here is that my field, rhetoric and composition, has far better employment numbers than English writ large and because my program specifically has never failed to place a PhD student who pursued on into an academic job. That's nothing resembling certainty. I could easily be the first. I'm not naive about how hard it will be. But we're all weighing the odds, and the reality is that the odds are much better for people in my situation than they are for many others in English graduate school. I would not have gone into a PhD program in literature unless I was in a school like a Berkeley or Harvard. That's just me, though. I take no pleasure in saying any of this.

[smellybug]

Check it out: http://chronicle.com/article/To-Apply-or-Not-to-Apply/139539/

[danieleWrites]

I like to think of myself as a pretty practical person, so the PhD is less about wanting a PhD than it is about wanting a job that requires the PhD. I decided that I wanted to teach as a main job and keep up my hobby of learning interesting stuff. Unfortunately, I dislike children (you may pity mine, poor guy). I'm okay with teenagers, so I did consider high school, but the current educational paradigm for secondary eduction is kind of like a North Korea for teachers. I admire the strength and fortitude of anyone who can teach high school for any length of time. I totally agree that it is not your fault, no matter who blames you. So, that left post-secondary education. That means PhD, unless one wants to wallow about in adjunct hell. I picked English because my previous university had an MA for English, not for sociology. And I love writing and reading. And, frankly, what I do in English is not much different than what I wanted to do in sociology, only the people in English don't give me the stink eye for thinking literature has a lot of things to tell me about people and society. So, the PhD is the hoop I must jump through to obtain the career I want. All of my experiences in the university have only taught me that my earlier thinking---teach with a sideline of reading my way through the non-fiction section of the library---isn't nearly as fabulous as the real thing. Real research, real conversations about research, and teaching not only variety, but teaching courses I designed, not based on what political in-fighting is happening. Hey, my kid went k-12 in Kansas. I taught him about evolution and big bang theory, just to make sure he didn't miss out.

[champagne]

Masochism.

[antecedent]

I made the decision to pursue a PhD two years ago, but I have really committed to it during this past year. I can thank my Masters degree, my course mates, the department faculty, and linguistics culture generally for encouraging me to take every opportunity I see to become a better student, researcher, and academic. I will be submitting my second round of PhD applications this Fall on yet another year off between degrees. 

 

My problem with the paradigm of 'real world' jobs is that to me they feel like the opposite - the university feels like the real world to me and the other jobs I've worked have been in-Limbo place-holders, even the ones I've enjoyed. The work* I do when I'm 'in academia' is the only work I've ever done that doesn't force me to consistently lie to myself. Every other job I've done includes lying to myself or others about my enthusiasm, passion, strengths, motivations, and qualifications. I'm passionate about my academic work, I'm highly motivated to keep learning and improving, and I'm good at it - I'm really fucking sick of apologizing for that.

 

...can you tell I've been job searching recently? I'm looking forward to being in a PhD program and not having to worry about this for a while. Sorry for the emo 'academia is the only place for meeeeee' post. I never thought I would be that kind of student/applicant/whatever, but in the end that's who I seem to have become.

 

*In 'work' I am including: research, writing, reading, teaching, advising, and participating in academic culture and service.

Edited June 8, 2013 by antecedent

[Portia]

I am really struggling with this decision at the moment.

 

I have been in research/academia/teaching for most of my life, and, while I did enjoy some aspect enormously, I have also struggled with some less than perfect issues - very low pay, a general culture of networking (and I am not a brown-noser, unfortunately), a lack of structure I need, because I am lazy myself.

 

After arriving in the US, I had my mind set on a MA in English Lit, which is something that would soothe my soul. I do feel, however, that it might not be the best idea for me - while I have knowledge, I still speak English with somewhat of an accent, and I wonder if that would not make employers not want me. I would love to go study English - but for the same amount of money and time, I could get a degree that is more marketable (like Computer Science, I was always very good at math, and I was quite proficient in STEM subjects, before deciding on humanities). I am quite torn now ...

[TheWB]

 

All that said, my questions are these: How did you decide to pursue a PhD? What motivated you to take that path instead of a "real" job? When did you commit to that decision mentally? And perhaps as an addendum, have you ever regreted it?

 

Thank you in advance!

 

Let me jump in even though I'm not (yet) pursuing a PhD. Here's why I'm pursuing an MA:

 

When I was a kid literature kept me off the streets; it gave me enough perspective not to do the stupid crap everyone else did in high school, stay out of jail, and get a free ride at an Ivy. I truly believe literature has a specific ability to help the mind transcend its immediate environment, and that only by helping young people and young adults transcend their environment and see what's on the far side of the struggle can I ever change my community and communities like it for the better. So I want an MA to fight for a community college job or, more likely, something on the non-profit edges of education, but also to develop a more forceful version of this underlying theory, specifically in relation to protest literature.

 

PhD though...hopefully I'll know in two years.

[champagne]

I am really struggling with this decision at the moment.

 

I have been in research/academia/teaching for most of my life, and, while I did enjoy some aspect enormously, I have also struggled with some less than perfect issues - very low pay, a general culture of networking (and I am not a brown-noser, unfortunately), a lack of structure I need, because I am lazy myself.

 

After arriving in the US, I had my mind set on a MA in English Lit, which is something that would soothe my soul. I do feel, however, that it might not be the best idea for me - while I have knowledge, I still speak English with somewhat of an accent, and I wonder if that would not make employers not want me. I would love to go study English - but for the same amount of money and time, I could get a degree that is more marketable (like Computer Science, I was always very good at math, and I was quite proficient in STEM subjects, before deciding on humanities). I am quite torn now ...

 

Hmm, it appears you're in a particularly peculiar pickle (terrible alliteration definitely intended). This won't be a popular opinion, and I hate to be the class curmudgeon (okay, I'll stop now); however, I think if you're concerned about about pay and benefits, then you are correct to reconsider your career in the humanities. None of us, no matter how smart or how marketable, will ever get rich at this. I think this is an important contract to sign with yourself (so to speak).

 

Then again, this also depends on how you define currency. Obviously, computer science, if you're talented, will be more monetarily beneficial to you in the long run. I think it's important, though, that you pointed out that a degree in English Lit "would soothe your soul". That certainly sounds like a more prodigious benefit than all others. Why does one pursue financial security, anyway? Because it makes us comfortable and affords us the opportunity to do things that we truly enjoy like creating and helping others--i.e. things that soothe our souls. Many would argue, though, that the dogged pursuit of financial security eventually leads to a completely opposing result: worship of money and things rather than that which should be more important. That's an entirely separate conversation, though!

 

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about your perceived reception of your accent. If the department is truly concerned with widening the scope of their research and students, then they would most likely see your non-traditional background as a positive. I would at least!

[Nicole D.]

My problem with the paradigm of 'real world' jobs is that to me they feel like the opposite - the university feels like the real world to me and the other jobs I've worked have been in-Limbo place-holders, even the ones I've enjoyed. The work* I do when I'm 'in academia' is the only work I've ever done that doesn't force me to consistently lie to myself. Every other job I've done includes lying to myself or others about my enthusiasm, passion, strengths, motivations, and qualifications.

Interesting!... I can definitely see where this comes from, unfortunately. Is academia really more genuine, or is the rest of the modern world just mirrors and smoke? ha.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Nicole D.

[Nicole D.]

When I was a kid literature kept me off the streets; it gave me enough perspective not to do the stupid crap everyone else did in high school, stay out of jail, and get a free ride at an Ivy. I truly believe literature has a specific ability to help the mind transcend its immediate environment, and that only by helping young people and young adults transcend their environment and see what's on the far side of the struggle can I ever change my community and communities like it for the better. So I want an MA to fight for a community college job or, more likely, something on the non-profit edges of education, but also to develop a more forceful version of this underlying theory, specifically in relation to protest literature.

 

PhD though...hopefully I'll know in two years.

I hear you, and I agree. Getting kids to care about literature is something I deeply care about and think will help build a better future while also preserving a?/the? past.

 

However, it seems that high school is less and less the arena for accomplishing this. Nowhere in the Common Core standards does it care about appreciating literature or building life-long readers or learners. Why? Because you can't measure appreciation and you certainly can't measure something "life long." And if you can't measure it, then what's the point?

 

Ok, bringing my toe back off the soapbox now.

 

As an update, I'm actually persuing teaching online for next school year. Testing the waters elsewhere while staying at the high school level, I suppose. I will see what next year brings; I wouldn't feel right if I didn't give teaching at least two years. Consider it my own TFA. ha! And I'll have also gotten my feet wet in my master's classes.  It's been very helpful here, though, to get a sense of what I'm in for, and I've also been reading Getting What You Came For (got a cheap used copy from Amazon). I'm trying not to stress too much; just taking it one step at a time! I'll decide towards the end of next school year if I want to go full time with the MA into PhD.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Nicole D.