2014 Applicants

[philophilosopher]

That's a broad AOI. And it looks like we're competing for position in over half of your school choices...lovely.

Yeah, I know. It comes off more specific in my statement of purpose. I just find it difficult to decide post-undergrad (i.e. after only 4 years of undergrad philosophy courses) what exactly I want to study and pitch myself accordingly to the schools to which I am applying. To be honest, I want to study all of it (every nook and cranny!), but I fear saying something along those lines comes off as either too timid or too ignorant. I am still trying to find the right balance in describing both a genuine interest in and open-mindedness toward studying the history of philosophy and a clear outline of what my interests are currently without sounding too myopic or incoherent. Such are the frustrations of grad school apps, I guess.

[dfindley]

I think 'all of it' is a pretty damn good answer, philophilosopher. Why are you so overconcerned with what other people might think?

Damn them. You do it for yourself, no? Did you know the chair of the Phil department at MIT reports his primary interest as 'metaphysica of color'?

Do you know how utterly dumb that is? Might as well discuss the metaphysics of sweet and sour.

--but he does it anyways-- . I am so proud

Edited December 18, 2013 by dfindley

[bar_scene_gambler]

Yeah, I know. It comes off more specific in my statement of purpose. I just find it difficult to decide post-undergrad (i.e. after only 4 years of undergrad philosophy courses) what exactly I want to study and pitch myself accordingly to the schools to which I am applying. To be honest, I want to study all of it (every nook and cranny!), but I fear saying something along those lines comes off as either too timid or too ignorant. I am still trying to find the right balance in describing both a genuine interest in and open-mindedness toward studying the history of philosophy and a clear outline of what my interests are currently without sounding too myopic or incoherent. Such are the frustrations of grad school apps, I guess.

I know what you mean. It's difficult pigeon-holing oneself like one must in order to talk about one's interests. 

[DHumeDominates]

Good day, all. Here are my "stats."

 

Overall GPA: 3.91; Major GPA: 3.97

GRE: 168 (V), 156 (Q), 5.5 (AW)

Interests: the history of early modern philosophy (e.g., Descartes, Hume, Reid, and Kant), contemporary metaphysics and epistemology, philosophy of mind and perception, metaethics, among others

 

Applying to several schools in the top 10, several in the top 25, and a few in the top 50 (according to the Philosophical Gourmet Report)

[bar_scene_gambler]

Good day, all. Here are my "stats."

 

Overall GPA: 3.91; Major GPA: 3.97

GRE: 168 (V), 156 (Q), 5.5 (AW)

Interests: the history of early modern philosophy (e.g., Descartes, Hume, Reid, and Kant), contemporary metaphysics and epistemology, philosophy of mind and perception, metaethics, among others

 

Applying to several schools in the top 10, several in the top 25, and a few in the top 50 (according to the Philosophical Gourmet Report)

Ah! An early modern guy/gal. Welcome. I actually just finished a rather awful paper on Hume's ethics, but I've developed a bit of a philosophical crush as a result. I'm sure glad I won't be competing with you.

[kant_get_in]

Tulane requires that you mail a copy of your writing sample to the department (what is this, the stone age?). My writing sample didn't make it before the deadline. In fact, it only made it there this morning. The university is closed and they will not be able to receive it until the second of January. 

 

Any advice? Think this will hurt my chances? I'm not too worried; I just need to be reassured. 

[MattDest]

Tulane requires that you mail a copy of your writing sample to the department (what is this, the stone age?). My writing sample didn't make it before the deadline. In fact, it only made it there this morning. The university is closed and they will not be able to receive it until the second of January. 

 

Any advice? Think this will hurt my chances? I'm not too worried; I just need to be reassured. 

Iowa requires the same thing oddly enough. I really don't think it will be a problem. They must understand that this will happen occassionally (and it's doubtful they are reviewing too many applications this week). 

[bar_scene_gambler]

Tulane requires that you mail a copy of your writing sample to the department (what is this, the stone age?). My writing sample didn't make it before the deadline. In fact, it only made it there this morning. The university is closed and they will not be able to receive it until the second of January. 

 

Any advice? Think this will hurt my chances? I'm not too worried; I just need to be reassured. 

If you think that's bad, listen to this. U Warwick messed up all of my recommendation request emails. Normally that wouldn't be so bad, except that they refuse to resend them. So my professors have to email them and send hard copies to the UK. When they sent in their emails, my professor were told that they don't accept emailed recommendations, so I had to fight it out with the department and the graduate school to get them to accept the emailed recommendations. It's been a real nightmare.

[Ryura]

Tulane requires that you mail a copy of your writing sample to the department (what is this, the stone age?). My writing sample didn't make it before the deadline. In fact, it only made it there this morning. The university is closed and they will not be able to receive it until the second of January. 

 

Any advice? Think this will hurt my chances? I'm not too worried; I just need to be reassured. 

The university is closed. Nobody is reading your application over Christmas.

[kant_get_in]

If you think that's bad, listen to this. U Warwick messed up all of my recommendation request emails. Normally that wouldn't be so bad, except that they refuse to resend them. So my professors have to email them and send hard copies to the UK. When they sent in their emails, my professor were told that they don't accept emailed recommendations, so I had to fight it out with the department and the graduate school to get them to accept the emailed recommendations. It's been a real nightmare.

That sounds terrible. At least you'll stick out to the committee members. 

[DHumeDominates]

Ah! An early modern guy/gal. Welcome. I actually just finished a rather awful paper on Hume's ethics, but I've developed a bit of a philosophical crush as a result. I'm sure glad I won't be competing with you.

 

Thanks for the welcome. It's refreshing to be able to talk to people who are going through the same process at the same time. However, friends of mine who are now in grad school have warned me about how constantly checking GradCafe, especially during the weeks and months by which applicants can expect to hear back, can quickly become a very unhealthy obsession. I'm sorry the paper was awful. Do you remember who wrote it? I'm most interested in his metaphysics and epistemology. Good luck with everything! (I'm a guy, by the way .)

[bar_scene_gambler]

Thanks for the welcome. It's refreshing to be able to talk to people who are going through the same process at the same time. However, friends of mine who are now in grad school have warned me about how constantly checking GradCafe, especially during the weeks and months by which applicants can expect to hear back, can quickly become a very unhealthy obsession. I'm sorry the paper was awful. Do you remember who wrote it? I'm most interested in his metaphysics and epistemology. Good luck with everything! (I'm a guy, by the way .)

Haha, I did. I just finished a rather drab 30ish pages detailing the connection between Hume's psychology and ethics. I spent the semester reading his corpus (minus some essays) as a part of an independent study. His grasp of human psychology was fascinating, but the little he has on aesthetics left a bad taste in my mouth. 

[philstudent1991]

You guys can bs with me if you want. Make no mistake; this is highly speculative. Here is the number of applicants to uc Berkeley undergraduate over the last six years, rounded to the nearest thousand, from farthest back to most recent: 48,000, 49000, 50,000, 53,000, 62,000, 68,000 (2013, so preliminary estimate). Notice the drastic increase in applicants over the last two years.

 

This seems to me probably not random, and the most likely cause seems to me to be the economy. When the economy suffers, more people try to go to school, both as undergraduates and for graduate degrees. Though still weak, the economy has improved in recent years. I would expect, then, to likely not see such a drastic jump in applicants, but either a steady hold or a decrease in applications this year.

 

Based on the seeming lack of activity on boards in our discipline, I am tempting to suspect the latter. Of course, there may be no correlation or an underwhelming correlation between undergraduate applicants and graduate applicants, between applicants in general and the economy, or between forum activity and total numbers of graduate applicants. These are all assumptions, which are open to be debate.  

 

There are other factors. Take the MA program at Georgia State. They received 59 MA philosophy apps in 2005, and 156 in 2012 (55 in 2006, an increase in every year subsequent). But is this due to the economy? Almost certainly not, or if so, marginally. The factor here, I suspect, is the growing reputation of their program. Unfortunately, admissions data is quite lacking at most programs (or, indeed, fortunately, because admissions data may be useless or even misleading).

 

My conclusion is that correlations are tricky in this scenario....but there is, I think, reason to hope for at most the same amount of competition, or perhaps even less

 

I'd be happy to discuss with anyone in this thread...cuz February is still over a month away Merry Christmas Eve everyone!!!

Edited December 24, 2013 by philstudent1991

[bar_scene_gambler]

I don't think it has to do with the economy. The reason I say that is because, were it just the economy, I don't think we would see much of a rise in philosophy admissions. When people lose their jobs due to a poor economy, what do they do? They go back to college to make themselves more employable. Philosophy, as a general rule, is not a program of study employers look for. My guess is that dramatic rises in applications due to the economy occur in fields like computer science, engineering, and other STEM fields, not philosophy. Sure, there may be some who find their calling and give up on employability, but I doubt very much that the dramatic rise in applications is to people finding their passion.

I think the rise in applications is due to a shrinking environment in philosophy. Many smaller departments, especially small state-funding departments, are closing shop or being merged with other departments like Religion Studies (a travesty if there ever was one). The big-names and well respected departments are generally safe, but even then that's not universally true. So, what you're left with is the same, or maybe even a smaller, number of applicants applying for a gradually shrinking number of positions. Year after year, those denied will apply to a greater number of departments, or perhaps they will apply to other departments, or perhaps better departments looking for placement. Thus, it will show a rise in applications, even with a growing economy.

This is all purely speculative of course, but I think it accounts for the general trend in applications, despite the improving economy. 

[jamc8383]

I think the rise in applications is due to a shrinking environment in philosophy. Many smaller departments, especially small state-funding departments, are closing shop or being merged with other departments like Religion Studies (a travesty if there ever was one). The big-names and well respected departments are generally safe, but even then that's not universally true. So, what you're left with is the same, or maybe even a smaller, number of applicants applying for a gradually shrinking number of positions. Year after year, those denied will apply to a greater number of departments, or perhaps they will apply to other departments, or perhaps better departments looking for placement. Thus, it will show a rise in applications, even with a growing economy.

 

 

 

This is a compelling argument.  Many universities are doing across-the-board cuts in the Humanities and/or suspending admissions to phD programs in these fields.  Definitely a factor.  No question.

 

Another issue, of course, is degree inflation.  As recently as the turn of the 21st century, a bachelor's degree would pretty much guarantee you unfettered access to gainful employment.  Now? Not so.  Now that nearly everyone is armed with the BA/BS it has become the baseline for even obtaining an interview.  It's no longer an advantage, so much as it's a requirement.  Which means that for people to set themselves apart, to make themselves competitive (in what is, yes, a relatively bad economy) graduate study becomes the recourse.  Granted, it's likely more of an issue for people in the STEM fields but, at the very least, it certainly impacts folks in the Humanities that want to go into teaching. MAs applying to teach community college are getting edged out by Phd's who can't find employment in four year universities and BAs interested in teaching at the high school level are now made to compete with those boasting an MA.  

 

Scary.

[MattDest]

I see no reason to think that the number of overall applicants to UC Berkeley has any correlation with the number of philosophy graduate applications generally. Also, I think that activity on Grad Cafe and WGI is a really poor measure for the number of philosophy applicants generally (especially this early). I'd just hold off on all of this speculating unless you get some data about the actual trends in the discipline. 

[bar_scene_gambler]

I see no reason to think that the number of overall applicants to UC Berkeley has any correlation with the number of philosophy graduate applications generally. Also, I think that activity on Grad Cafe and WGI is a really poor measure for the number of philosophy applicants generally (especially this early). I'd just hold off on all of this speculating unless you get some data about the actual trends in the discipline. 

This: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/30/university-applications-subjects-age-gender-country doesn't necessarily address the argument I put forward regard Philosophy, but it does show that the lion's share in applications comes out of STEM fields in the UK (not sure if we're talking about the US exclusively or not). This data, if anything, supports the claim that I made that the economy affects the rise in "employable fields". 

As for more specific hard data, I'm at a loss. I don't have anything except individual department sites at hand. Has anyone done a general study of admissions data?

If you look at Georgia State's department, or Duke here:http://gradschool.duke.edu/about/statistics/admitphl.htm, or Northwestern here:http://www.tgs.northwestern.edu/documents/Program%20Statistics%20Files/program-stats-files-2012-2013/P20PH_adm_enr.pdf and so on, you see a general upward trend in applications, but I'm not sure if that's representative or not. Again, this is all speculative, but it's not like there is no data available.

[purpleperson]

Do any of you believe you will get into at least one or two programs?  

 

There's a tendency to exhibit a lot of modesty on this board, but surely some of you think you will get into one or two.  Even if you just believe -- for whatever reason -- that you will be one of the lucky ones and not necessarily that you are "great."  

 

I'm in English, as I said before in this thread, but I for whatever reason feel like I'll get into at least one or two.  I don't know.  It's just part of my tendency to be optimistic about things.   But I say this knowing that I might get into 0.  

 

I feel like I'll get into at least one.  

 

Also, how have your closest friends and advisors acted about your chances?

 

I guess there are three people that have actively given input on what they thought my chances are, and it's pretty mixed.  (Almost everyone else I have told that I'm applying were just like "that's cool..."  

 

Although I have three letter writers, two just stuck to writing me letters; they didn't chime in on what they thought my chances were, and I didn't ask.  But the third did chime in, and she seemed pretty grim about things.  She was very complimentary of me in general and said she believed I was worthy of a program; she was just very grim about the competition.  She also told me that she's been advisor to many students who were eventually disappointed, so she always maintained a cautious stance about applying to PhD programs.  She would look at my list of 13 schools, point to the three or four lowest ranked ones and say "maaaayyyybe there."

 

The other person is a close friend of mine who is a sociology professor.  She's a young professor, so that's how it is that I am friends with her.  But anyway, she says "you're going to get into several.  Mark my words."  And she says it like she really means it; she's on admissions committees in her field; she knows a lot about this stuff.  Yet...how can she know what I'll get into or not -- it's a different field.  Plus she just has a loose idea of my GRE score and generally thinks of me as "smart."  It's not enough to be so sure I'm going to get into "several."  But I love that she has that kind of confidence in me.  

 

The other person is my boyfriend, who says it's really stiff competition, but he's pretty confident that at least one or two schools will accept me.  He is positive I will get into at least one, but acts doubtful that 3-4 acceptances will happen.

 

It's just weird how you just can't know.  And the people in your life have such discrepant ideas about your chances. 

 

My own assessment is....1.  At least one acceptance will happen.  I think.

Edited December 30, 2013 by purpleperson

[wandajune]

Honestly, I have no clue what to expect out of the admissions process. I just continue to hope I'll get in to a few places, but keep the possibility of universal rejection at the forefront of my thoughts to avoid being disappointed. My letter writers have a huge amount of confidence in me. They all agree that I have an extremely good shot, but know that it's possible I may not get in at all.

 

What frustrates me is the repeated attempts of my friends and family members to assure me, "Oh, you'll get in somewhere!" I'd hate to disappoint them all, and it's a definite possibility...

Edited December 30, 2013 by wandajune

[bar_scene_gambler]

Do any of you believe you will get into at least one or two programs?  

 

There's a tendency to exhibit a lot of modesty on this board, but surely some of you think you will get into one or two.  Even if you just believe -- for whatever reason -- that you will be one of the lucky ones and not necessarily that you are "great."  

 

I'm in English, as I said before in this thread, but I for whatever reason feel like I'll get into at least one or two.  I don't know.  It's just part of my tendency to be optimistic about things.   But I say this knowing that I might get into 0.  

 

I feel like I'll get into at least one.  

 

Also, how have your closest friends and advisors acted about your chances?

 

I guess there are three people that have actively given input on what they thought my chances are, and it's pretty mixed.  (Almost everyone else I have told that I'm applying were just like "that's cool..."  

 

Although I have three letter writers, two just stuck to writing me letters; they didn't chime in on what they thought my chances were, and I didn't ask.  But the third did chime in, and she seemed pretty grim about things.  She was very complimentary of me in general and said she believed I was worthy of a program; she was just very grim about the competition.  She also told me that she's been advisor to many students who were eventually disappointed, so she always maintained a cautious stance about applying to PhD programs.  She would look at my list of 13 schools, point to the three or four lowest ranked ones and say "maaaayyyybe there."

 

The other person is a close friend of mine who is a sociology professor.  She's a young professor, so that's how it is that I am friends with her.  But anyway, she says "you're going to get into several.  Mark my words."  And she says it like she really means it; she's on admissions committees in her field; she knows a lot about this stuff.  Yet...how can she know what I'll get into or not -- it's a different field.  Plus she just has a loose idea of my GRE score and generally thinks of me as "smart."  It's not enough to be so sure I'm going to get into "several."  But I love that she has that kind of confidence in me.  

 

The other person is my boyfriend, who says it's really stiff competition, but he's pretty confident that at least one or two schools will accept me.  He is positive I will get into at least one, but acts doubtful that 3-4 acceptances will happen.

 

It's just weird how you just can't know.  And the people in your life have such discrepant ideas about your chances. 

 

My own assessment is....1.  At least one acceptance will happen.  I think.

No, I don't believe I will get in anywhere, but I've always had a self-deprecating manner about my work and my abilities. I hold no expectations in regards to my admissions.

As for reactions, I've learned that you can't trust your closest friends regarding your chances. Even your best friends want you to succeed, and so they'll often tell themselves, and you, that your chances are great, even if they know that your chances are slim to none. Only after the rejections start rolling in will they honestly describe what your chances were in hindsight, not due to malice or ignorance, but because they cared too much to be honest with themselves.

The majors in my department all do this to each other without realizing it. We all believe that we're the dimmest of the bunch and that everyone else will get in somewhere, and I think that kind of attitude stems from the usual doubt that seems common among philosophers and an appreciation for the talents of others. 

As for advisers, mine are pretty out of the loop in terms of graduate programs. They've all praised me highly, but that means little if they're unaware of the difficulties of graduate admissions.

It's a clusterfuck, and we're all aware of it. Everyone knows how shitty it is, but the only people you can rely on for honest assessment are those that don't know you and don't care about your feelings or whether or not you'll get in.

At any rate, I'm not anxious about the process because I hold no expectations. If I don't get in, I'll be bitterly disappointed, but I won't be devastated. I'll just spend another year taking courses and working on my applications. 

Edited December 30, 2013 by bar_scene_gambler

[kant_get_in]

This isn't my first rodeo, and let me say that things are much easier if you do not expect to get in somewhere.

[Cottagecheeseman]

I don't expect to get in anywhere. Honestly I wonder why I'm doing this... But I'm fairly pessimistic as a person. I agree with the Kant-Pun guy, it's probably easier if you don't expect to get in somewhere.

[objectivityofcontradiction]

I (probably falsely) fully expect to be accepted to at least 4/10 of the schools I have applied to. Again, I am not sure I can account for this confidence and I am inclined to think it a bit foolish... but with each day, hour to hour, as I am waffling back and forth between "I am going to strike out across the board!" and "I think I should get in EVERYWHERE!" I usually find myself going to bed with positive thoughts. 

Edited December 30, 2013 by objectivityofcontradiction

[MattDest]

I don't expect to get in anywhere. Honestly I wonder why I'm doing this... But I'm fairly pessimistic as a person. I agree with the Kant-Pun guy, it's probably easier if you don't expect to get in somewhere.

He Kan pun and he did! 

 

As to the question, the first time that I applied out I really did not think I would get in anywhere. My friends and family, all trying to be supportive, said the same sorts of things you all are no doubt familiar with "You'll get in somewhere!" My advisors were pretty honest, and knowing that my undergrad GPA was low and I was coming from an unknown state school, that it was a long shot. Luckily, I got into a great MA program and I'm more confident this time around than I was previously. 

 

I'm a rather optimistic person in general (having back-up plans helps), and I do think I'll be able to sneak in somewhere. I have my bouts with impostor syndrome and the pessimism that others share here, but if I let it linger it starts to really negatively affect me. If I really didn't feel like I would get in anywhere, I'd have a hard time justifying to myself why I spent thousands of dollars and the hours of labor applying in the first place. 

[kant_get_in]

This isn't my first rodeo, and let me say that things are much easier if you do not expect to get in somewhere.

 

I want to be clear about what I meant so that I don't sound like that guy (I'm not implying that anyone here misunderstood me). I don't just mean that anticipating rejection will lead to less grief, but that it will (likely) lead to earnest preparation of alternatives, and earnest preparation of alternatives will (likely) result in an easier and more enjoyable year off.  

in short, please don't think of me as a pessimist, but as someone who is encouraging a forward-thinking, "go-getter" attitude. Think of me as the fucking Tony Robbins of this board.