Frustrated

[danisj]

Well, it's good to know I'm not alone in freaking out over recommendations.

 

After three "target date" extensions, 3 out of my 4 recommenders have not submitted to all 5 schools I am applying to. I initially asked them in late August/early September and they all responded enthusiastically. Now, the target date I set is this Saturday, November 30th. One day before applications are due. 

 

I didn't want to bug them, but 2 hadn't even acknowledged my email in October. These two recommenders have really dropped the ball. Checked each recommendation system- they hadn't even opened the links. I was never a pest- I only initiated three e-mails between Sept and November 11th. All were update emails-about updating the target date, or sending a helpful document with more information about my work/program. None of these e-mails put pressure on them to write the letters immediately.

 

So, on November 12th, I sent the two non-responders a polite email to their work address to ask if they were receiving my emails. At that time, my target date was November 18th.

 

One replied, "Yes, I got your email and I set myself a calendar reminder to work on it." As if I had jumped to some wild conclusion after nearly a month of not hearing from her. The other said, "I'll get to it this weekend. Should take me an hour maximum!" It is not very comforting to know that it will take him 12 minutes for each letter when it has been nearly 3 months. 

 

Well, now it's Wednesday, November 27th. Three days before my target date, 4 days before the deadline. These two recommenders still have not submitted ANY letters or even opened the links. I'm double concerned because Thanksgiving holiday starts tomorrow. I'm sure they have family plans, but I really need them to finish these letters.

 

I used each grad school application system to resend links tonight. Hopefully they will get the hint without me having to write personal emails to bug them. Is there anything else I can do at this point? 

 

[TakeruK]

I think you might be unfamiliar with how LORs for graduate schools work.

 

Firstly, profs are super busy and they will tend to complete things near actual deadlines, not artificial deadlines you set (unless you had a good reason to motivate such an early deadline). I was honest with my profs and told them the real date it was due so they can plan their time the way they want.

 

Secondly, you should expect profs to spend about 1 hour on the letters, because they will write one letter template and then modify it very slightly for each school (probably change the name of the school you're applying to). Or they might just write the same letter to all 5 schools. This is standard and we do pretty much the same thing with our SOPs. Just because you gave them 3 months to write the letter doesn't mean they will think about how they will write it for the 3 months!

 

Finally, the application deadlines are mostly for us to get our stuff submitted. LORs, test scores, etc. can trickle in afterwards and no one will really mind. I am saying this because if Dec 1 rolls around and you still don't have the letters submitted, please don't panic at all! Just send an email to the programs you're applying to and say something like "Unfortunately, I don't think all of my recommendations are in yet" etc. and give them a heads up. 

 

I think you did the right thing to use the grad school application system to remind them / resend the links. This is the best way to remind the profs, even better than a personal email because they need this link to submit your letter! For me, my general strategy was to use the online system to resend links 2 days before the deadline and then the day after the deadline if it was not submitted on time. 

 

I understand how you are feeling. After all, by this time, we would have spent tons and tons of hours working on our applications and it's frustrating to have to wait for someone else. But it is important to try to remain relaxed and not worry about the LORs coming in. Profs have a ton of LORs to write too, and the profs receiving your applications probably have their own LORs to write so having LORs come in late is generally a common and accepted thing in academia. I wouldn't worry yet, not unless your letter doesn't show up a week after the deadline! 

[socioholic]

This makes me feel better.

I do see that all the programs actually have different deadlines for the LORs.

The biggest problem is that they are not responding to emails or phone calls about writing the letter. I'd like to hope they would not completely destroy my chances when they told me they would write the letters. I know they're busy but being uncommunicative is raising my blood pressure. I'd guess many of us are independent and hate having to wait on other people in general. I dislike not being in control. To ask another professor at this point could be down right disrespectful if not embarrassing. It sucks.

[repentwalpurgis]

This makes me feel better.

I do see that all the programs actually have different deadlines for the LORs.

The biggest problem is that they are not responding to emails or phone calls about writing the letter. I'd like to hope they would not completely destroy my chances when they told me they would write the letters. I know they're busy but being uncommunicative is raising my blood pressure. I'd guess many of us are independent and hate having to wait on other people in general. I dislike not being in control. To ask another professor at this point could be down right disrespectful if not embarrassing. It sucks.

So, I largely felt the same way as you throughout the negotiation of reference letters, but as Takeruk says, you must remember how busy these letter-writers are.  I have never received a single response from one of my letter writers - other than planning a meeting with him to talk about the letter.  And I realized that is just the way this person operates - so I develop my efforts to contact him appropriately.  In a fit of anxiety, I drove out to my alma mater to speak with him after he never responded to an email containing my SOP and writing sample.  He immediately said, "do you want to see how many emails I receive?"  They can't respond to every single one - it's up to you to trust them and understand how they choose to communicate.  I thought that I'd be anxious as hell come this week, but I simply try to remind myself that they understand the process (it might seem like they don't sometimes, but they sure do) and they'll get to the letters when they can.  I don't know your location, but Thanksgiving is probably taking up some time, too. 

Edited November 27, 2013 by repentwalpurgis

[Sigaba]

I dislike not being in control.

 

You're going to hate graduate school if you don't find ways to turn the corner on this dynamic.

[TakeruK]

I'd like to hope they would not completely destroy my chances when they told me they would write the letters. I know they're busy but being uncommunicative is raising my blood pressure. I'd guess many of us are independent and hate having to wait on other people in general. I dislike not being in control. To ask another professor at this point could be down right disrespectful if not embarrassing. It sucks.

 

I don't think a professor would normally have a motive to actively try to sabotage someone's career. I think if a prof is not interested in writing a letter, they would just refuse to do so and then it's much less work than agreeing to write one and then actively behave in a way to prevent you from getting into grad school. Another way to put it is that while we might over-analyse and worry and think about every single interaction we have with our profs, but I am almost certain they don't think that way about us. 

 

I also don't like not being in control but I think I am able to manage this need for control so that it does not adversely affect my health and productivity. I think this is essential for life, not just grad school, because there will always be situations out of our control! So, instead of letting it stress me out, I try to find positive spins to it -- like "Oh well, I've done all I can to set my LORs up, I won't have to think about it until the deadline!", for example.

[purpleperson]

I'm not all that freaked out by the letter writers and deadlines either.  I probably should be since this is my first round of applications, and it's all new to me.  But I guess I've just looked enough around here to realize that letter writers will be late and evasive, but ultimately, they get the job done.  And furthermore, the schools typically have grace periods.  I've even read a post on here that said the poster received an acceptance before a third letter was even in, and that the school pretty much said, "You're in, but we need to have the third letter on record, so tell that prof to get it in..."

 

Not saying that's likely or common, but it happens.

 

My first deadline is December 1, and my third letter writer is still pending.  With the holidays, I don't even know if he'll get my reminder or the one sent from the school. But I'm not sweating it.  Even if my acceptance ends up being on the line, I really don't want to become the grad school version of a Bridezilla -- a gradschoolzilla -- who cares about nothing else but recommendation letters and acceptances.  Honestly, I don't like what the whole process turns people into.  People who can think of nothing other than getting people to write letters about them so that they get into grad school.  

 

Not to disparage you, though, because I do want to get in too and if things got to four days after the deadline and my letter writer hadn't submitted, I'd probably freak a bit too. But anything before the date, as long as you know they are planning to write the letter, just let them be as much as you can.  I think they'll write the letter and upload it in a reasonable time.

 

One of my letter writers responded to me yesterday, but hadn't responded to the three short emails I'd sent before the recent one.  The three she didn't respond to weren't big deals.  They were informational rather than asking her a question. But still, she's just not gonna acknowledge every little thing.  And my other letter writer, a totally nice guy, responds to me very sparsely as well, and is only just politely curt when he does respond. (e.g. "I will."  "That date is fine."  "Okay."  "That sounds good."  "Send it to me and I"ll look at it."  Never anything long.

 

I think I have good letter writers in general, so I understand if you have ones you don't entirely trust.  But don't freak out over the deadlines, because the schools are supposedly understanding of lateness on that count, since they know you have no control over it.

Edited November 27, 2013 by purpleperson

[socioholic]

You're going to hate graduate school if you don't find ways to turn the corner on this dynamic.

I'm good; already have a graduate degree. Ive been through this a time and a half. I'm just worried because I havent gotten so much as an "ok". I mentioned in the other thread I was able to follow-up with one prof today. The other is still a mystery. I didnt think I was a gradzilla but I guess i'll lay off for a while.

[danisj]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses! Fortunately, all of my recommenders submitted their letters today. Yesterday, life seemed pretty bleak, but now I feel much better. 

 

I left out an important detail. My recommenders are not professors. Unlike professors, my recommenders do not carry the same kind of heavy workload, they do not have countless letters to write nor are they familiar with the process. I made sure to ask them if the target date was fair, if they had any questions or concerns. I gave them all a lot of guidance on these letters. They all said they would submit by my target date, that it was "more than enough time." If they wanted/needed more time, all they had to do is tell me. I'm very understanding and considerate. After all, they are doing me a favor. But they never hinted at that whatsoever. Then they didn't respond. That was my issue.

 

To give a sense of one of my recommenders...Today he said to me, "Maybe if I put these off long enough I won't have to do them at all." He was not joking. Shame on me for choosing this character. I immediately removed him from sending letters to my top two schools. I gave him plenty of opportunities to back out so I just don't understand. 

 

I set artificial deadlines for multiple reasons, but as I think about it now, I think a major reason is because I didn't trust my recommenders enough. 

 

You live and you learn, I guess. And boy, I have learned a lot in these two years after undergrad. 

Edited November 28, 2013 by danisj

[Sarah Bee]

My case is worse than yours. I drafted the letter myself and the professor said she'd proofread it and make amendments if needed and it's been a month and she hasn't even done that.    I requested her a few times (she is added to my Facebook) and her response was very polite. The deadline is looming over now and I don't know how to remind her again :S 

Edited November 29, 2013 by Sarah Bee