Recommender offering to have a look at the letter?

[levo99p]

So I obviously waived my right to see the letter and my recommender asked me if I'd like to see the letter before she submits. 

 

I know she wants to write a good letter for me (she knows me well, etc) so i'm guessing she wants to make sure she wrote the letter in a way that will really help me?

 

Before she wrote the letter, she asked me what I'd like to be stressed in the letter so this can be the best letter it can be. I let her know some qualities but they were kinda vague I think (I didn't know how specific I can get with this).  

 

Like I said, I waived my right. Given that she offered, though, would it be okay for me to take a look? What do you guys think? Would appreciate any input.     

 

 

[Loric]

Omg!! Noooo! Don't be tempted by Satan! Every time you read a rec letter you waived the right to see a baby bunny cries!

Seriously though - you waived the right, you never said you'd never look at them given the opportunity.

[dat_nerd]

Seriously though - you waived the right, you never said you'd never look at them given the opportunity.

No, waiving your right only waives your legal right to view an educational document pertaining to you. You did not promise to never see the letter, but that you wouldn't require your recommenders to let you read their letters. If the recommender offered, I see no issue with you reading the letter.

[levo99p]

My heart dropped when you said a baby bunny cries!!!!!!!!! jk! 

 

Thanks guys for your help! Phew so it's not unethical to do so.     

 

Do you guys think it's okay to provide her feedback upon seeing the letter? If there are areas I want her to improve a bit that is... thoughts? I wonder if she expects me to given that she asked me?  

 

Feeling like it'd be a bit odd to see a letter, feel a bit ^&% about it and just let her submit it?  

 

*bit confused*  

Edited December 10, 2013 by levo99p

[Lisa44201]

I would not ask her to improve the letter unless you see blatant mistakes on it (e.g., she says you got a 3.0 in her class when you got a 4.0 - that did actually happen on one of my letters).

[TakeruK]

I would personally prefer to not see the letter. If my letter writer was like "Okay I am finished writing it now, by the way, any interest in seeing the letter?" then I would say "No thanks!". But if the offer was phrased in a way that I felt like the prof wanted me to check it over before they sent it, then I would take a look! I don't think it's unethical -- it's just that I wouldn't want to know. And I agree with Lisa44201--I'd only request a change if there was a factual error.

[levo99p]

thanks guys for all the answers 

 

she only asked if i'd want to see the letter before she submit it (didn't say anything else) 

 

and am wondering why she offered. I was thinking maybe she wants me to make sure i'm happy with the letter, but seems I'm on the wrong side.  

 

If I can't do anything about it, feeling like i'd also prefer to not see the letter for peace of mind... 

Edited December 10, 2013 by levo99p

[Loric]

One of my recs confused the authors of a play I designed (same title, vastly different content) so it was important to catch it.

[wisescience]

If you waive your right to view the letter, you waive your right to view it. Do you not? I'm not catching the gray area here. 

[m-ttl]

If you waive your right to view the letter, you waive your right to view it. Do you not? I'm not catching the gray area here. 

 

No. As stated previously, you waive your right to DEMAND to see the letter, or the ability to see the letter that the institution has as a copy. This does NOT mean you cannot be offered the contents of the letter, or the ability to see it by the writer, it just means the institution will seal the files on THEIR end. 

 

This is what you are waiving the right to:

 

Under the terms of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), you can review letters of recommendation and accompanying forms after you enroll at a postsecondary institution and only if that institution saves the documents post-enrollment.

 

Edited December 28, 2013 by m-ttl

[wisescience]

m-ttl, I appreciate your response. From what you have mentioned, a few thoughts come to my mind. You mentioned that under FERPA one may do the following:

 

...you can review letters of recommendation and accompanying forms after you enroll at a postsecondary institution and only if that institution saves the documents post-enrollment.

 

 

This statement appears to be contingent upon 1) enrollment at a postsecondary institution and 2) the institution's discretion in keeping or discarding our documents. Permission from a professor, despite having waived our right to access, does not appear to be an ample exception to the rule. I am not sure, however, whether our rejection from an institution would allow us to view our past recommendations. Does anyone know?

 

When we waive our right to view the recommendation, it appears to me that we are entering an agreement between 1) the institution to which we are applying, 2) ourselves, and 3) our recommender(s). As we have already promised the department that we have given up our right to view the recommendation, I do not see how an offering from a recommender to us provides an honest exemption to an agreement that involves all three parties. 

 

If we give up our permission to view the recommendation, its future handling is the responsibility of the other two parties jointly. Regardless of whether we come to an agreement with our professors, its disclosure impacts the institution toward which we've extended a promise of non-disclosure. If our recommenders share their recommendations with us, institutions would then be working under a misinformed assumption that we have not seen our LORs.

 

Here's an excerpt from the current application form to Law School at U Michigan:

(Page 8: http://www.law.umich.edu/prospectivestudents/graduate/Documents/gradapp%20FA%2012.pdf) 

 

 

Federal legislation gives students in attendance at the law school the right to inspect and review the letter(s) of recommendation contained in their 

educational records, unless that right is waived and the student or the applicant consents to the letter(s) remaining confidential between the law school and the writer. (As an applicant or student, you may waive the right of access provided by the legislation.) You are not required to waive your rights as a 

condition for admission to the law school or for the receipt of financial aid or any other benefits. All letters of recommendation, whether written in 

confidence or not, are carefully considered as part of the admissions decision. You alone must decide whether or not to waive your rights.

 

Once we waive our rights, the disclosure of the recommendation is the business of Parties 1 and 3 (the institution and our recommender, jointly). Even so, if our recommenders wish to reveal their writing to us, this decision affects Party 1 (the institution) without its consent. This gives the case for transparency throughout the process, specifically between our recommending professors and departments receiving our applications. At minimum, viewing a recommendation after communicating to a institution that you will not view it goes against the spirit of the agreement. Thoughts?

 

(Edited for formatting)

Edited December 28, 2013 by wisescience

[TakeruK]

m-ttl, I appreciate your response. From what you have mentioned, a few thoughts come to my mind. You mentioned that under FERPA one may do the following:

 

 

This statement appears to be contingent upon 1) enrollment at a postsecondary institution and 2) the institution's discretion in keeping or discarding our documents. Permission from a professor, despite having waived our right to access, does not appear to be an ample exception to the rule. I am not sure, however, whether our rejection from an institution would allow us to view our past recommendations. Does anyone know?

 

When we waive our right to view the recommendation, it appears to me that we are entering an agreement between 1) the institution to which we are applying, 2) ourselves, and 3) our recommender(s). As we have already promised the department that we have given up our right to view the recommendation, I do not see how an offering from a recommender to us provides an honest exemption to an agreement that involves all three parties. 

 

If we give up our permission to view the recommendation, its future handling is the responsibility of the other two parties jointly. Regardless of whether we come to an agreement with our professors, its disclosure impacts the institution toward which we've extended a promise of non-disclosure. If our recommenders share their recommendations with us, institutions would then be working under a misinformed assumption that we have not seen our LORs.

 

Here's an excerpt from the current application form to Law School at U Michigan:

(Page 8: http://www.law.umich.edu/prospectivestudents/graduate/Documents/gradapp%20FA%2012.pdf) 

 

 

Once we waive our rights, the disclosure of the recommendation is the business of Parties 1 and 3 (the institution and our recommender, jointly). Even so, if our recommenders wish to reveal their writing to us, this decision affects Party 1 (the institution) without its consent. This gives the case for transparency throughout the process, specifically between our recommending professors and departments receiving our applications. At minimum, viewing a recommendation after communicating to a institution that you will not view it goes against the spirit of the agreement. Thoughts?

 

(Edited for formatting)

 

I don't agree with your assessment. When you waive your right under FERPA, it is an agreement between you and the institution only--the recommender is not involved. However, the school does inform the recommender about your decision.

 

Under FERPA, schools must make every part of a student's record available to the student and the student only. Thus, without the waiver, if the school keeps a copy of your LOR in your permanent record, then you will be able to request access to it under FERPA. So, a recommender might be worried about you using your FERPA rights to see the letter and if you sign the waiver, it makes the recommender and school feel better about FERPA.

 

However, the only right you are waiving is your FERPA right to see this part of your student record. The recommender can choose to release the letter to you if they wish. The school can also choose to release the letter to you if they wish. The school can also choose to not place your LOR in your student record so that you might not ever access your LOR even if you didn't waive the right. 

 

I learned this information from conversations with professors at US grad schools and through some FERPA related training. 

 

Also:

 

1. If you are rejected from a school, then you will have never enrolled in that school, which means you will never be a student of that school. Thus, even if you did not waive your rights, you cannot use FERPA rights to view your LOR from rejected schools because you don't have any FERPA rights since you are not a student. You can still ask the school to provide the LOR to you, but they are not required to under FERPA.

 

2. If you are accepted to a school, the school can still choose to release your LORs to you even if you waived your FERPA rights. In one example, when a colleague graduated, their school turned over all of that student's files on record to the student, so that the school would be no longer responsible for maintaining security on that student's file. Among the giant folder of stuff was the student's LORs from years ago. 

 

3. However, in some cases, it's likely that the recommender and the school may also have their own confidentiality agreement. It is possible that when the recommender submits their LOR for you, the school agrees to keep it confidential and not release it to you unless required to by law (e.g. FERPA). 

 

So, in summary, the FERPA waiver is an agreement between you and your future school only. It is not a promise to anyone that you won't see or know the contents. You are only promising to give up your FERPA granted rights to access this particular component of your future student record.

[wisescience]

TakeruK, thanks for the response! What you've shared makes a lot of sense to me and found it to be quite informative. Cheers.

[TakeruK]

Glad to have been helpful!