Coming from a 'no-name' undergrad?

[sbz]

Hi there!

Am I going to be marginalized because I'm coming from an undergrad program that isn't particularly respected/competitve? Will schools make any assumptions about what kind of student I am, or the rigor of my studies because of where I'm coming from? 

 

I'm currently looking at what I believe to be very competitive programs -- would it serve me well to temper my selections considering the above? How realistic is it to go from a no-name public university in the midwest to a school like NYU?

Thanks in advance!

[loginofpscl]

Not really. I came from a small non-flagship state university and got admitted into top-ranking programs. What you've made of your undergrad experience matters much more than the name of the school, although the connections you make at those schools would help you a lot as well.

Edited February 2, 2014 by loginofpscl

[Loric]

It depends on what you've been taught..

 

If your no name school didn't offer the classes they considered pre-requisites you're pretty screwed, even if you technically have the degree in field. Look at the school you're going into's required courses for an undergrad degree in the field. If they all look foreign and aren't courses you had to take (or similar courses) then you're right to be concerned.

 

Also, there's a fairly rotten sense of lack-of-status when it comes to letter writers. Hunt down the PhD's and highest ranking people in your departments. No name people from no name schools will essentially hold about zero weight with the adcom - but a PhD can usually be seen as a passable opinion. And apparently a non-academic reference is just a fool's errand.

 

All of that is terrible and elitist asshattery, but it's what you're up against.

[VioletAyame]

Not really. I wouldn't call my undergrad school "no-name" but it's not prestigious and definitely not a flagship of anything. I was worried about that to but in the end, I've been accepted to some very good schools and the issue has never even been brought up by anyone. Most people (adcoms, GSDs, your POIs) are much more interested on what research experience you had and what research interests you now have.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if it's a 4-year BA-granting institution, there should be quite a few PhD-holding people there right? You don't need to hunt them down or anything, just gradually build a good relationship and show them your potential.

I'm on my phone right now and I can't see the OP's field or interest, but if he/she wants to pursue an research PhD, of course a letter from someone who's been through the process is gonna hold more weight. There's nothing elitist about that. Now I agree that an experienced faculty member is able to recognize students' potential regardless of their own degree, but employers are not, unless it's a professional program. That makes it hard for many people, but there's still a good reason behind it.

[Loric]

Not really. I wouldn't call my undergrad school "no-name" but it's not prestigious and definitely not a flagship of anything. I was worried about that to but in the end, I've been accepted to some very good schools and the issue has never even been brought up by anyone. Most people (adcoms, GSDs, your POIs) are much more interested on what research experience you had and what research interests you now have.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if it's a 4-year BA-granting institution, there should be quite a few PhD-holding people there right? You don't need to hunt them down or anything, just gradually build a good relationship and show them your potential.

I'm on my phone right now and I can't see the OP's field or interest, but if he/she wants to pursue an research PhD, of course a letter from someone who's been through the process is gonna hold more weight. There's nothing elitist about that. Now I agree that an experienced faculty member is able to recognize students' potential regardless of their own degree, but employers are not, unless it's a professional program. That makes it hard for many people, but there's still a good reason behind it.

 

OP is in computer security per their profile. Something not likely to have a lot of PhDs if I recall properly.

[VioletAyame]

OP is in computer security per their profile. Something not likely to have a lot of PhDs if I recall properly.

Got it. In that case I think he/she had better consult someone knowledgeable in the field. I'm gonna venture and say professional experience will be valued, but again, neither you nor I know enough to give credible advice here.

[darmok]

My school is unranked in my field and certainly not a flagship. I chose it because it was close to home and lowered my costs. My GPA wasn't even close to perfect, but good research experience and publications, along with a strong resume and SOP (asked a lot of people for help) got me through my applications. Grad schools judge by a lot of things, and coming from a big name undergrad is, from my experience, not very high on that list.

[Loric]

It depends on the people on the adcomm though. My note is coming from the discussion by a bunch of professors at various schools questioning why anyone would use a non-tenured professor as a reference.. since they see those as having little value, the non-academic ones essentially being worthless.

 

Not a theoretical convo, an actual one. Go bug Eigen for the link if you're really that curious.

 

So hierarchy, status, and rank does mean something to some of these people. I think they're more forgiving of what school you studied at in general, but they still wont give it the same weight as a top tier school. Like i said though, just don't use outside references and aim for the PhDs when you can. Someone at a top tier who does the opposite (using TA's, non-academic, etc..) will be ranked below you, all things being equal.

 

Every bit contributes, and not being at a top tier is a mark against you - it's not a fatal blow, but it's not something to just ignore either. You need to make yourself the best candidate possible and you can't take the other little silly things the adcoms look for lightly if you want to be considered seriously.

 

A whole bunch of overlooked silly little things (magical thinking in SOP, meh grades or scores, non-PhD recs, not coming from a top tier school, etc..) which alone would not sink the ship will turn into a big fat rejection if combined.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Loric

[Queen of Kale]

I feel that coming from a no name school can be 'canceled out' by having one or two things which legitimize your undergrad GPA.  For instance, I come from a literally unranked school my POI had never heard of, and he told me he never would have considered my application except for three things: my GRE made my GPA not look like I simply skated through an easy program, a recommendation from a known person in the field gave credibility to my other two LOR writers who were unknown to him, and my previous presentation at a major conference meant that I had a stamp of approval from other researchers.  I don't think this is some sort of magic "holy trinity" of admissions but it was what helped round out my application.  If you have anything like this which could tether your reputation to something outside of only your undergrad institution I think it is a big help.

[Human_]

I have read that it does help a lot to come from a prestigious undergrad program, especially since the adcoms understand how difficult it is to maintain a high GPA in that program whereas they have no idea how to judge GPA from a school they have never heard about. Though if your application is competitive all around, then you should still have a good shot.

[glm]

Hi there!

Am I going to be marginalized because I'm coming from an undergrad program that isn't particularly respected/competitve? Will schools make any assumptions about what kind of student I am, or the rigor of my studies because of where I'm coming from? 

 

I'm currently looking at what I believe to be very competitive programs -- would it serve me well to temper my selections considering the above? How realistic is it to go from a no-name public university in the midwest to a school like NYU?

Thanks in advance!

 

I think fit is (or should be…) more important than coming from a well-known institution. If a POI looks past you just because you came from a "no name" school, then that's their loss. If you are excited about a competitive program and see yourself succeeding there, don't let it bother you. Be confident in your potential. Great candidates can come from places other than the top tier.

[Admissions Advice Online]

While coming from a big name school will help your application, coming from a small school will not exclude you. The most important aspect that schools look at is the courses that you took. Did you take the most challenging classes offered to you? Were you in the honors college at your school? Via the SOP can you portray that you can handle the rigors of graduate study. Does the program require a standardized test? If so, performing well will certainly make you competitive at any program.  -Admissions Advice Online