Thoughts on unfunded PhD

[psych111]

I just got accepted to a PhD program, but I wasn't offered any financial aids. This is a great program but the school itself isn't ranked very high (think 150th-ish). I also had acceptances to some Masters program (no funding) to ivy league schools. What would you guys do in my situation? The PhD program is one of my top choice and I'm over the moon about getting admitted; however, I am also hesitant about taking out loans for 5+ years. Thanks for your input!

[GeoDUDE!]

You will not succeed in an unfunded PhD program; I wouldn't even pay for a masters degree. Most people who haven't been in graduate school have no idea how hard it is emitonally without the finacial strain. I think it is unethical of graduate departments to offer an unfunded PhD position as it sets its students up for failure: any such department could not be considered good at all.  What is weak about your application? Can a masters program improve those weaknesses ? Are the masters programs thesis based ? What about applying again next year?

 

Paying for graduate school that isnt med school IMO is a big mistake.

[Jessengineer]

In my opinion, I would not ever do a PhD without funding.  You have a degree at this point, so you should not ever have to pay to go to school (especially if you are helping the school by doing research there).  Then again, if PhD is really your dream, and you don't have problems taking out loans, then go for it.

 

All I know is PhD in engineering, and I don't think the degree helps you make that much more money (if anything, it might hinder some jobs since you may be too specialized).  I cannot speak for other majors, so I'm not really sure of your background!  But anyway, PhD is an expensive endeavor for 5 years, so you should not be taking out the loans.

[DeleteMePlease]

You will not succeed in an unfunded PhD program; I wouldn't even pay for a masters degree. Most people who haven't been in graduate school have no idea how hard it is emitonally without the finacial strain. I think it is unethical of graduate departments to offer an unfunded PhD position as it sets its students up for failure: any such department could not be considered good at all.  What is weak about your application? Can a masters program improve those weaknesses ? Are the masters programs thesis based ? What about applying again next year?

 

Paying for graduate school that isnt med school IMO is a big mistake.

 

Word.

[serotoninronin]

That's a big no. GeoDUDE is right. It's heinous that programs even offer people unfunded PhDs.

[Guest criminologist]

I also recently got accepted into a PhD program in my field with no funding. When I asked them they said they accepted a lot of people this year but could only fund approximately 12 percent of them! That was quite shocking since they have so many PhD students and therefore you would think many of their current doctoral students would be unfunded. I cannot believe so many people would go into that PhD program unfunded.

[TakeruK]

I think it's important that not only a PhD program offer funding, it should actually offer enough funding so that the students can survive on it (at a reasonable standard of living). I think an offer of something like tuition+$10k/year stipend or even $20k/year stipend in an extremely expensive city is pretty much equivalent to no funding at all, to me. 

 

The way I see it, is that an undergraduate degree can set you up for a decent job, at least $30k/year and probably more depending on your field. So a stipend of $20k/year is not really you making $20k/year, I see it as "paying" at least $10k/year in opportunity costs to go through grad school and learn the skills. Money isn't everything though and it's important to have job satisfaction, but as others said, being financially in trouble is very emotionally draining. So, I would never ever accept an offer that would not allow me to save up a little bit each year. I don't need to be making tons of money, but I don't want to put myself in financial trouble if academia doesn't work out after a PhD.

[DeleteMePlease]

I also recently got accepted into a PhD program in my field with no funding. When I asked them they said they accepted a lot of people this year but could only fund approximately 12 percent of them! That was quite shocking since they have so many PhD students and therefore y ou would think many of their current doctoral students would be unfunded. I cannot believe so many people would go into that PhD program unfunded.

 

That should tell you a lot about the institution. Seems like they see Ph.D. as cheap labour and/or don't have the skills/reputation to collect money.

[Eyetea]

Not worth the hustle...

[starofdawn]

.... I wouldn't even pay for a masters degree... 

 

How often are MS/MA degrees funded? I'm under the impression it's fairly rare, unless the applicant is exceptional and qualifies for merit scholarships.

[GeoDUDE!]

How often are MS/MA degrees funded? I'm under the impression it's fairly rare, unless the applicant is exceptional and qualifies for merit scholarships.

 

Mine currently is, as is almost everyones in my department. I had a very poor ugrad gpa. I am on a TAship

Edited February 14, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[Lifesaver]

I wouldn't do an unfunded PhD. That being said, I'm about to start my second unfunded masters. Such is life in the social sciences, though. Why not do the unfunded masters, raise your GPA, and apply for a funded PhD?

[Guest criminologist]

That should tell you a lot about the institution. Seems like they see Ph.D. as cheap labour and/or don't have the skills/reputation to collect money.

 its funny but I forgot to mention they are the #7 ranked criminology program according to US News 2009 rankings and #1 in some other rankings. It is not a department or school that offers the PhD program but an entire college so it was surprising they could only fund so few students. Not sure if they were being honest.

[CharlesSpurgeon]

I was told by the chair of a department that admission to the program is separate from funding. He also told me that if I was offered admission at first, but not funding, that funding could still be possible. He gave me the contact information to the head of the graduate school and told me to contact them directly in that situation and inform them that I am interested in accepting the offer, but I can only do that if funding is made available. I was told that very frequently they are able to make funding available in these situations, in part because people who were offered funding will end up going somewhere else in addition to other funding sources they are able to consider. 

 

Of course, this is one university. Your mileage may vary.

[psych111]

Thanks for all your input. I was also told that funding may become available in the next few weeks. I'm guessing this will be the case when someone who was offered funding decided not to come, so I'm pretty much on the waitlist for assistantship. I'm pretty sure that I will just go with a Masters and pay for a year. I'm very hesitant to be in debt for 5+ years!!

[VioletAyame]

I was told by the chair of a department that admission to the program is separate from funding. He also told me that if I was offered admission at first, but not funding, that funding could still be possible. He gave me the contact information to the head of the graduate school and told me to contact them directly in that situation and inform them that I am interested in accepting the offer, but I can only do that if funding is made available. I was told that very frequently they are able to make funding available in these situations, in part because people who were offered funding will end up going somewhere else in addition to other funding sources they are able to consider.

Of course, this is one university. Your mileage may vary.

In most schools I'm applying to, the way it works is the department has their own funding for their students, usually through TA and RAships. When they see some applicants' profiles that they know are competitive (usually it's a number game for the graduate school, based mostly on GPA and test scores), they can nominate them for university-wide fellowships. If the students get those fellowships, their funding will come from the graduate school, not the department and the department can use its fund to admit more students. This is the case when a student declines an offer, that fellowship funding will usually be gone as well, since the department can't nominate other people to replace it.

But even in the case that all funding is tied to the graduate school, I think it's still the department's job to secure funding for you if they really want you to come. You may have to explicitly expresse your interest to them but they should be the one dealing with the graduate school. It's like hiring and employee and tell him/her that if you like to work here and get paid, take it to my boss about your potential salary, it's not my problem.

Edited February 15, 2014 by VioletAyame

[Hazelnut Latte]

DONT GO!

[Between Fields]

My advisor told me, basically, that if you don't get at least some funding, they don't really want you. If they really wanted you and really wanted you to succeed, the funding would be there. Maybe look at alternative sources, though? I had an assistantship in the dean's office for part of my MA, and it was a lot of fun. (And awesome for networking!)

[AMM]

I am new to this, but I can't imagine what the benefits are to doing an unfunded PhD (aside from perhaps a clinical doctorate)?!?  Get more work experience, improve your application, and reapply for a funded PhD program.  Too much time and money with no guaratnee of a job in this economy...too many PhD's and not enough jobs.  Don't put

yourself into debt for more alphabet soup in your title!   I think it is unethical of institutions to even promote these programs!

[TakeruK]

My child was offered admission to a PHD program (states away from home). Then two weeks later came the "unfunded" letter. We encouraged him to go...as did other professors (with the schools indication that they may offer funding his second year). He has completed his first year at that institution.  The funding was not there for his continuation in the program.  He did apply to other programs and did not receive funded acceptance. Our family is offering to pay for him to finish where he is. I did not know all the "stigma", etc., that is associated with accepting an unfunded position.  I do not think he did either until being exposed to it.  He is doing very well academically, however is struggling with the decision to continue.  We have encouraged him to stay as it seems unthinkable that he has given so much already to just stop now.  However, I want him to be able to live with his decision...no matter what that is.

 

What is the best way I can help him?

 

Finishing where he is now can be a long time--four more years! This seems like a very large investment of one's personal money for a degree that might not make it worth it in the end. I don't know what the best way to help your son because there isn't that much information here. I would probably say the best way to help is to make sure he chooses what is best for him! Again, I don't know the full story but I would think that having your family offer you the money to finish along with the sentiment that it's "unthinkable to just stop now" is kind of putting extra pressure.

 

In my opinion, getting an unfunded offer basically means you were rejected but they can probably get money out of you. If I was in your son's position and knowing only the information I have from this post, I would either:

 

1) Just leave graduate school at the end of this year and find a different career path.

 

2) Apply to PhD programs again this fall for Fall 2015 start and stay at my current school long enough to get a Masters degree only. If I don't get in again next year, I would stop trying for PhD programs. 

[hj2012]

My child was offered admission to a PHD program (states away from home). Then two weeks later came the "unfunded" letter. We encouraged him to go...as did other professors (with the schools indication that they may offer funding his second year). He has completed his first year at that institution.  The funding was not there for his continuation in the program.  He did apply to other programs and did not receive funded acceptance. Our family is offering to pay for him to finish where he is. I did not know all the "stigma", etc., that is associated with accepting an unfunded position.  I do not think he did either until being exposed to it.  He is doing very well academically, however is struggling with the decision to continue.  We have encouraged him to stay as it seems unthinkable that he has given so much already to just stop now.  However, I want him to be able to live with his decision...no matter what that is.

 

What is the best way I can help him?

 

What is his field? I think it's unthinkable for him to continue without funding, but especially if he is in the humanities I would seriously consider the ramifications of the decision to continue. You're looking at 4+ years at the very least; realistically, many people take 6, 7 or 8 years to graduate! Furthermore, funding isn't just a matter of money. It is an indication of how the school views you, and how competitive your son will be for opportunities in the future. For example, if he is unfunded, that means he will not have the TA or RA experience necessary to be competitive for jobs in his field; he will not have grant money or fellowships on his CV, etc etc.

 

Taker's suggestion -- complete a Master's at his current institution, then apply to funded PhD programs -- may be the best compromise. (I also must echo that you are likely putting a lot of pressure by telling him it's unthinkable for him to stop now...not to mention totally unrealistic, as attrition rates hover around 50%.)

Edited April 29, 2014 by hj2012

[victorydance]

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking no fellowship = no funding. There are numerous ways of getting funding besides the basic fellowship package. Not only that, but fellowships are competed for every year so you could get one as soon as the next year. External awards and fellowships, RA, TA, other departmental awards can easily fully fund your doctoral program.

 

I had a prof who had a funding offer from a lower ranked school and an unfunded offer from a top 20, he choose to go to the top 20. He ended up getting fully funded despite not having an initial fellowship.

 

You have to weigh your options. If there seems to be a multitude of funding options at university X, that doesn't mean you will go into debt. If there doesn't, then obviously this might be a problem. If you don't even get a tuition waiver, then obviously that is ridiculous.

 

Lastly, the outright ignoring of external fellowships and awards on this board is outstanding. There are literally dozens of different scholarships/grants/fellowships you can apply for from virtually any country you might come from.

Edited April 29, 2014 by HopefulComparativist

[hj2012]

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking no fellowship = no funding. There are numerous ways of getting funding besides the basic fellowship package. Not only that, but fellowships are competed for every year so you could get one as soon as the next year. External awards and fellowships, RA, TA, other departmental awards can easily fully fund your doctoral program.

 

I had a prof who had a funding offer from a lower ranked school and an unfunded offer from a top 20, he choose to go to the top 20. He ended up getting fully funded despite not having an initial fellowship.

 

You have to weigh your options. If there seems to be a multitude of funding options at university X, that doesn't mean you will go into debt. If there doesn't, then obviously this might be a problem. If you don't even get a tuition waiver, then obviously that is ridiculous.

 

Lastly, the outright ignoring of external fellowships and awards on this board is outstanding. There are literally dozens of different scholarships/grants/fellowships you can apply for from virtually any country you might come from.

 

Perhaps this is a misunderstanding on my part, but I took "unfunded" to mean absolutely nada, as in no tuition waiver, no RA/TA appointments, etc. The poster's son is not getting any funding for his second year, either, so it does not seem that the university has a plethora of funding options.

 

External fellowships and awards are great, and I think eligible students should definitely keep them in mind! But most of these fellowship/award programs are extremely competitive, even more so than gaining PhD admission itself. And, to be totally frank, if a student is not competitive enough to gain admission to a funded PhD program, I question if they would be competitive for external fellowships as well, particularly the ones that provide enough to cover tuition+living expenses (NSF, Ford, Soros, Mellon, Woodrow Wilson, etc).

Edited April 29, 2014 by hj2012

[TakeruK]

I want to say/clarify that I also understood the post saying "unfunded" to mean no funding at all, from any source!

 

And I agree that in my field, the competition for external fellowships is an order of magnitude higher than competition for funding from the school. That is, probably only 10%-20% of graduate students in general are funded through "useful" external fellowships. (where I define "useful" as providing either all of your funding needs or enough so that the school can meet the remaining needs through TA/RA ships).

[victorydance]

I agree that it might mean that he has received absolutely nothing. It is often hard to tell because people use unfunded and funded as sort of a false dichotomy.

 

My general point was that I often see on this board where people instantly shun anyone going into an 'unfunded' doctoral program. When in reality, it's not always a black or white situation. I'll admit these posts are more of a general gripe rather than specific to this thread.

 

Obviously, I totally agree that if there is no tuition waiver, no stipend, and low chances of any funding then it's a pretty easy 'no.' 

 

However, when people don't receive standard fellowship stipends (ie, approx. 15K or more a year) and say they got in to a program 'unfunded' that isn't necessarily a bad thing. They could have a full tuition waiver and find funding from a number of other sources both externally and internally that could easily fund them through their whole program. 

 

I am of the opinion that there is no "useful" funding packages, money is money. By honing your grant writing skills and applying broadly, three $3000 awards or grants amounts to a yearly $9000 stipend. 

 

I also think people make the mistake of receiving funding and just stopping there. Theoretically, grad students could pull in as much money as they would in a full-time job if they played their cards right. With the sheer amount of options out there, it is foolish to assume that the typical entrance funding package is the end all be all of graduate funding.