Decision Making: A Forum for those of us making any type of decision

[ke6904]

Does anyone have an opinion on University of Delaware vs. SUNY Stony Brook?

 

U. Del is a funded MA and 90% move onto the PhD, but I would still have to go through application process again, and it would be a two year MA and another 5 year PhD.

 

Stony Brook is a straight to PhD, "5" years. 

[ke6904]

Not sure if there's already a forum more specifically tailored to this, but here's my current problem:

 

At the moment , I'm most strongly torn between two programs. One is a five year PhD program, and the other is an MA program that all but guarantees you will be accepted into their PhD program, but also gives you the opportunity to apply to other PhD programs. Also, both offer adequate funding, so it probably wouldn't come down to which one is offering more money (I currently only have my BA). 

 

I visited the MA program a few weeks ago and really liked it, and will be visiting the PhD program soon. 

 

Right now, I like the idea of having the opportunity to apply to PhD programs with the added experience of having an MA in progress, and the added research focus from having more study time and course work, but I'm not sure I should pass up a direct-admit PhD opportunity. Of course, if I visit the PhD program and really feel that it's wrong for me, I probably won't hesitate much to pursue the MA/eventual PhD program.

 

Any thoughts?? Would you pursue an MA and apply for the PhD again (hoping for a perfect fit), or take the PhD opportunity you already have?

This is my predicament exactly! (See my post above)

[rachelann1991]

This is my predicament exactly! (See my post above)

This. Stony Brook vs. Delaware is driving me nuts trying to decide! Hopefully when I visit Stony Brook on Monday I'll love it, because they did give me a good deal more funding and it's five years vs. 6/7 to get a Ph.D!

[iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns]

Decisions...


How swayed are y'all by the faculty's apparent excitement over working with you? Does it weigh into your decision making process at all?

I just wanna be loved!

[Imaginary]

Decisions...

How swayed are y'all by the faculty's apparent excitement over working with you? Does it weigh into your decision making process at all?

I just wanna be loved!

 

Haha. Maybe it's because I looked and felt like a zombie after a day and a half of (some delayed) flights and an unexpected hotel stay, but I didn't feel "liked" on a visit. That said, it was more the overall inaccessibility of the program and location for my particular short and long term interests that is leading me towards another program. 

[Tweedledumb2]

Decisions...

How swayed are y'all by the faculty's apparent excitement over working with you? Does it weigh into your decision making process at all?

I just wanna be loved!

 

That's been a HUGE consideration for me. Really, the deciding factor. To be fair, both of the programs I was seriously considering were equal in most other aspects (reputation, funding, etc.), but one program showed excitement over my research and talked about how they can help me develop it further, while the other program didn't reach out in nearly the same way. I need to know I'll be in a supportive environment.

[ReadingLisa]

Any opinions about Columbia or UPenn for English lit? I'm torn between both schools. Both are fully funded, though Columbia guarantees 6 years of funding, and Penn only 5 (6th funding is competitive). They're pretty comparable offers financially. Also, I like the faculty members at both, though Penn has more in my field. 

 

I really don't know what to do apart from flipping a coin. 

[ProfLorax]

Any opinions about Columbia or UPenn for English lit? I'm torn between both schools. Both are fully funded, though Columbia guarantees 6 years of funding, and Penn only 5 (6th funding is competitive). They're pretty comparable offers financially. Also, I like the faculty members at both, though Penn has more in my field.

I really don't know what to do apart from flipping a coin.

If Columbia and UPenn are equal in terms of the big three (fit, funding, and faculty), consider other non academic elements. Which campus can you see yourself? Which student cohort do you want to be a part of? Which city would you prefer to live in? Since you know that both schools would be great options for you professionally, consider which environment would be better for you personally!

[ComeBackZinc]

That's been a HUGE consideration for me. Really, the deciding factor. To be fair, both of the programs I was seriously considering were equal in most other aspects (reputation, funding, etc.), but one program showed excitement over my research and talked about how they can help me develop it further, while the other program didn't reach out in nearly the same way. I need to know I'll be in a supportive environment.

 

I don't mean to discourage you, but I'm really not sure that the response you get during the application season makes much of a difference for your eventual relationships in your program. For one thing, there's just too many layers of self-presentation and idealization involved in the application process. When you actually meet faculty, you'll be meeting each other as real, full-fledged human beings, and that's always a different relationship. They're courting you, and you're courting them. Take whatever information you can from the application process, but don't trust it.

 

Not that I'm saying you've made the wrong decision; I'm sure you've made the right decision. I'm just saying, as a general principle-- too many people come to grad school needing to be loved. It's one of the strangest things I see around here, this constant invocation of wanting to feel desired. That has almost nothing to do with your actual professional relationships with people. Grad school isn't about family or love, it's about launching your professional career. And I worry that people who expect love in the application process are going to be emotionally unprepared for the inevitable reality of your actual progress through grad school. It's nice when you are close personally with faculty, but I've seen a lot of people who have gotten too invested in those relationships and mistaken them for something that will result in career success.

 

One of the professors who has done the most for me, in terms of professional development, publication, and finding extra funding for me, is someone I don't have a particularly warm personal relationship with at all. But why would we?

Edited April 2, 2014 by ComeBackZinc

[ICanHazPhdPreez?]

In defense of decisions based on relationships with potential advisors: while getting my Master's, I worked as a research assistant and had an AWFUL experience. I want to ensure that going forward, I will be at a school that fosters supportive, respectful, professional relationships. I don't want an advisor to care about me personally, but I do need an advisor to care about my professional future. And yes, I want to be comfortable with that person - not in a warm and fuzzy way, but in an "I can sit in your office and make small talk without wanting to disappear into a hole in the floor" way. 

 

You can tell a lot by meeting with a professor and by listening to how current students speak about him or her as an advisor. Who woos you the hardest? Not that relevant. But which school has professors you click with and can see yourself working with for five to seven years? Definitely important.

[ComeBackZinc]

You can tell a lot by meeting with a professor and by listening to how current students speak about him or her as an advisor. Who woos you the hardest? Not that relevant. But which school has professors you click with and can see yourself working with for five to seven years? Definitely important.

 

Yes, exactly. I don't want to discount the importance of people you might work with, not at all. I just mean that a) you have to recognize that there are limitations to how much you can know about your potential relationships now, and not to fully trust that the warmth you feel now will matter three years from now, b ) what you'll want to study will change, so who you'll want to work with may change as well, and c) there's a big difference between wanting to work with people and needing to feel wanted in some emotional sense. I say that from observing lots of grad school friends and acquaintences, at many different programs and in different fields. The people who are doing/have done the best, almost without exception, are people who have thought of grad school as a professional opportunity and not in emotional terms. Of course you need people you can work with. But the whole "advisor as best friend" thing can actually be a detriment to your career.

Edited April 2, 2014 by ComeBackZinc

[Tweedledumb2]

I agree! And I probably should have been more careful about how I replied. The faculty I've been responding well to aren't people who I want to be buddies with or who I feel are just flattering me--they have clear ideas about where I might take my research from here (as much as it will change over time). I also was given a clear idea of who I might begin working with, whereas in the other program, I got the sense (mostly from the current grad students) that I would constantly be competing for resources and attention. Feeling loved isn't important, but having a certain level of support is.

 

You're right, though. Throughout this process, I've had to keep reminding myself that the way people are presenting themselves now aren't necessarily who they'll be once I join the program. Remembering that is good advice for everyone. My campus visit was eye-opening, and even while meeting faculty as "real, full-fledged human beings," I I had to remember I was still in the recruitment phrase. Probably more revealing than what anyone said to me was watching how the faculty interacted with each other and the current grad students.

[ComeBackZinc]

If you felt good about the program you're choosing, then that's a gut reaction you should trust. I would never want to discount that. I just want to gently push people in the direction of phrasing interest as a matter of professional commitment rather than personal, that's all.

[iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns]

Decisions...

How swayed are y'all by the faculty's apparent excitement over working with you? Does it weigh into your decision making process at all?

I just wanna be loved!

:-)

I'm glad I asked.  I hesitated to put the little love bit in there but I'm glad I did that too.

Let me be clear: I am not wanting for affection. I’m not looking for shiny star stickers on everything. I am not feeding some deficiency of ego by attending a grad program. 

BUT – my goal is a Ph.D. Y’all don’t need me to tell you that it stands for Doctor of Philosophy. You also don’t need me to break the word “Philosophy” down and point out the meaning of Philia. But I reckon it has something to do with love.

 

 I’m not entirely sure where my research will take me but my pedagogy is strongly influenced by Paulo Freire – in this regard, love (for the lack of a better term) is important. I’ve been in situations where, despite being a brilliant and hard-working member of the team, my ideas are not allowed to grow or folks pull rank and shut down conversation. If I’m in grad school I want a sense of community support. Sure it’s a personal and monastic-like journey. But even monks have a Sangha.  

All you need is love? – Naw I don’t buy that

 

I think CBZ has some good points – application season is not necessarily a good indication of what your experience will be. Sooo, I’m glad I asked. It’s easy to get caught up and forget that these programs are courting us at this stage.

One love, y’all.

[viviandarkbloom]

Anyone else finding it impossible to decide? I'm torn between Brown and Cornell, so I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any particular views on/experience of those two programs. The fit at both is excellent for my interests (modernism, critical theory, aesthetics). Accessibility from/to NYC is a big consideration for me, so Brown would edge it on that, but there isn't much in it...

[Imaginary]

All of this. What you have said sort of reminds me of being a young undergrad and interviewing a local editorial journalist for a political science course. He kept on saying his job was just a job. It was like he really disliked it or was at least thoroughly disenchanted. I could only think that he was lucky that he got paid to write, especially about his life. I still feel that way, maybe more now that jobs like that are harder to obtain. Years later he wrote (ironically, I am sure) that he didn't understand why young people were "waiting on the world to change."

:-)

I'm glad I asked.  I hesitated to put the little love bit in there but I'm glad I did that too.

Let me be clear: I am not wanting for affection. I’m not looking for shiny star stickers on everything. I am not feeding some deficiency of ego by attending a grad program. 

BUT – my goal is a Ph.D. Y’all don’t need me to tell you that it stands for Doctor of Philosophy. You also don’t need me to break the word “Philosophy” down and point out the meaning of Philia. But I reckon it has something to do with love.

 

 I’m not entirely sure where my research will take me but my pedagogy is strongly influenced by Paulo Freire – in this regard, love (for the lack of a better term) is important. I’ve been in situations where, despite being a brilliant and hard-working member of the team, my ideas are not allowed to grow or folks pull rank and shut down conversation. If I’m in grad school I want a sense of community support. Sure it’s a personal and monastic-like journey. But even monks have a Sangha.  

All you need is love? – Naw I don’t buy that

 

I think CBZ has some good points – application season is not necessarily a good indication of what your experience will be. Sooo, I’m glad I asked. It’s easy to get caught up and forget that these programs are courting us at this stage.

One love, y’all.

[andromache]

I've probably posted about this enough times, but still agonizing--

 

Academically, I think Fordham's MA program is really the best for me for a number of reasons, and will really, really, prepare me for a PhD, as well as helping me to get into a PhD program to begin with. CMU's one year program will give me a lot less experience and time to explore my fields of interest. Both programs have tutoring opportunities, which is really nice.

 

I'll be spending at least twice as much money at Fordham, though, because it's a two year program. Even though I'd prefer to do a two year program, CMU's one year program will leave me half the debt, but probably less prepared for PhD applications/programs.

 

I think I'd have an easier time committing to Fordham's program if not for some trepidation I feel about living in NYC. I'm from a small town, did my undergrad in a small town, and I think doing my MA in a city is important to me. I like New York, but I'm concerned that after living here for a month, I'll come to hate it/be miserable/feel isolated and afraid/etc. Last year, I went abroad to Germany to au pair for a year--I hated it and the family, so I ended up leaving after a month (though for reasons that aren't likely to happen while living in NY.) It's just a really overwhelming decision and I'm struggling a lot.

 

Option three is continue working my multiple part time jobs and living with my parents, working on finding other opportunities and reapplying next year, with a focus on funded MA programs. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to significantly improve my applications (or even improve them minutely.)

 

Umm...advice I guess??

[shortstack51]

Sorry to have missed you today! I totally forgot to check in with you. I had a ton of free time today so I would have been able to!

 

I can definitely say that Fordham's MA program is great. Some MAs are funded and others not, so you get the same amount of treatment and cultivation, and professors usually forget who's got funding or not anyway. Fordham MAs have gone onto decently prestigious universities in the past as well (though most take a gap year or two in between).

 

Your worries about NYC are totally understandable and, if I'm honest, the city isn't for everyone. Most people who live here have a love-hate relationship with it; it frustrates/aggravates them, but at the same time they love the culture/food/academics of the city too much to leave. However, 2 years fly by very quickly at this level and, if you decide you don't want to be in NYC anymore (like me), you can apply to programs in a wide variety of settings. Grad school in general can be more isolated; most people are engaged, married, etc. and/or have lives separate from the program, so generally there has to be a conscious effort for people to get together outside of the program. Fordham has a lot of social events, though--they do a "beer n books" series where everyone meets for drinks, etc. It's also totally acceptable to bum around in the writing center and chat if you're waiting for a class to start. Also, if you live in the city, there's a 99% chance you'll be living with a roommate. Mine definitely helped keep me sane as I adjusted to city life (I'm from rural Connecticut, so it was a decent shock to me at first).

 

You might find Queens a good place to be, or somewhere in Westchester County in NY or Fairfield County in CT (which are almost giant suburbs of the city--you can take the metro north in). Queens, in my experience (as long as you avoid some areas like Jamaica), is quieter and more residential and has things like trees (not always that common). The only thing is that the commute from Queens to Fordham is a bit lengthy. The metro north actually tends to be faster since there's a stop on campus (but a bit more expensive--subways are $2.50 one way, metro north tickets are priced according to how many stops you take). The LIRR stops in Queens, though, and it's not too hard to get from the LIRR's stop in Manhattan (penn station) to Fordham's campus, particularly if you scoot over to the campus shuttle at Lincoln Center for the last leg of the trip. I should mention, I guess, that having a car in the city is pretty pointless and generally expensive if you didn't already know (Parking is a nightmare and not all apartment complexes offer parking, and if they do, it can be like $100 a month added onto your rent). Anyone can feel free to disagree/add additional advice! I'm still mostly a city "newb" after only 2 years in the area. (Some people do like living in the Bronx because it's convenient and if you're on Arthur Ave it's actually pretty nice, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it if you're from small towns.)

 

Anyway, sorry for rambling--the city is certainly a force to contend with. People tend to romanticize it in ways that aren't accurate at all. But--it's a cultural hub for a reason and I think it's possible you might love it. If you don't, there's always suburbia, haha.

 

This wasn't intended to try to swing you over to Fordham! I'm personally glad I did my MA there, but it might not be for everyone. I do have to say that you will get a very excellent writing sample out of it at some point--mine came from my 2nd semester.

[andromache]

Yeah, the impression I got from my visit is that the program will really make me a strong candidate for PhD programs, partially because of the writing sample. It also seems to be very focused on PhD prep in general, which is what I want to get out of pursuing my MA. The one year program? Not so much.

 

I don't want a car at all. I'd probably happily live in Connecticut, but I feel like I'd need a car for getting around whatever town/suburb I'd end up living in when I don't happen to be in the city.

 

It's just a lot to think about and so much of it is anxiety-inducing.

 

Thank you for all of your input though!! It is super helpful and appreciated.

[Romanista]

 

Option three is continue working my multiple part time jobs and living with my parents, working on finding other opportunities and reapplying next year, with a focus on funded MA programs. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to significantly improve my applications (or even improve them minutely.)

 

Umm...advice I guess??

 

You don't need to necessarily improve your application, you just need to cast a wider net by applying to terminal MA programs. I think a lot of people on this forum applying with a BA (me included) ultimately want a PhD. And therefore we focused on applying primarily to programs that offer a MA that transitions into a PhD. It makes perfect sense to do this because if you are dead set on the PhD you save the time/money of having to apply again and possibly move to another city for the PhD. Also the funding is generally better than it is for separate MA programs.

 

But as we all know the competition is intense for PhD programs. In a sense you want to believe that you are PhD material because to it's defeatist to say "you know what, probably I'm not getting into a PhD program straight out of undergrad."

 

The competition is not as intense for MA programs, even for those with funding. I'm certainly not the first to say this and I won't be the last but I think it bears repeating. It's just a matter of conceding that maybe you won't be getting your MA and PhD from the same school. But if these forums are any indication, that is just not a kiss of death in terms of getting that coveted TT job.

[shortstack51]

No problem! People who live in westchester or CT usually do have a car (I use my fiancee's), but depending on where you live, you could get by without one. It wouldn't be easy, but my brother did it for a while before he could afford a car. There is a bus system. I do have to say that while cheaper than NYC, you'll probably still need a roommate in CT or westchester to make rent (unless you just rent a room or a studio).

Let me know if you have any other questions!

[davidipse]

I'm caught between schools A & B, of roughly equal prestige, and would appreciate any advice/opinion (thanks in advance!).

 

School A:

- Top 10

- better academic fit, though otherwise more hands off; it seems like I'd have to be more of a "go-getter"

- Heavy teaching load: 3 years out of 5, with the option to tag along and teach extra years

- bigger

 

School B:

- Top 5

- a stronger official support structure outside (e.g. in addition to) the classroom and advisor-advisee model: writing groups, better incidental cost coverage, probably better and more hands-on support for job-search too

- much lighter eaching load: 1 year out of 5, with the option to tag along and teach extra years

- smaller, but I loved the cohort I visited with, so that's probably alright

 

I'd most probably go with School A if the teaching load, instead of 3, was 2 years, which seems to be the normal load for Top 10 schools. I'll try, but as the funding/teaching package is the same for all students, I don't think I can negotiate a lighter teacing load.

Edited April 7, 2014 by davidipse

[ProfLorax]

School B:

- Top 5

- a stronger official support structure outside (e.g. in addition to) the classroom and advisor-advisee model: writing groups, better incidental cost coverage, probably better and more hands-on support for job-search too

- much lighter eaching load: 1 year out of 5, with the option to tag along and teach extra years

- smaller, but I loved the cohort I visited with, so that's probably alright

 

I'd most probably go with School A if the teaching load, instead of 3, was 2 years, which seems to be the normal load for Top 10 schools. I'll try, but as the funding/teaching package is the same for all students, I don't think I can negotiate a lighter teacing load.

Wait, does this mean that you only have to teach for one year at this school? If so, is it a 1-1, 2-1, 2-2, or something else? What do you mean by "the option to tag along"?

[davidipse]

Wait, does this mean that you only have to teach for one year at this school? If so, is it a 1-1, 2-1, 2-2, or something else? What do you mean by "the option to tag along"?

 

I don't quite know what 1-1 etc. are. You teach 2 sections of a course principally thaught by a professor. I.E. 2hrs/week you attend the prof's lecture + 2hrs/week you teach a "section" of the undergrads. It's basically a TAship. This is half of the total teaching req; the other half consists of teaching a themed composition course that the grad student designs himself/herself.

 

By the option to tag along I mean that if you don't finish your dissertation by the end of the 5th year, you can stay on for a 6th year as a registered student while being paid to teach (presumably a heavier load than within the 5 years of guaranteed funding).

[WendyWonderland]

Hey!

Thanks for starting the thread, it feels good to be back again! Seeing all these familiar IDs made me very happy!

After being rejected from all 8 super phd programs, and after my grad cafe friends told me that I have to improve my English skills, I decided to be realistic and do a second Master in English. I think that after an English MA program I would be more competitive when I reapply for a phd in Comparative Literature, 2016.

Now I got waitlisted at Emerson College and I was accepted to Loyola Marymount University. I am still waiting for the decision of  City College of New York.

The thing is, there are no fundings for international students, and normally no scholarships for the first year. So I have to do several part time jobs to survive. My parents are going to pay the whole tuition and support my living costs for the first year, and then I have to work hard.

My questions are, do you guys know how the reputation of these 3 schools are? I think I would go to Loyola, because the program seems great! City College's English program seems appealing too, but the living cost would be so much more in New York, I guess.

Can anybody help to give out some suggestions?

Thanks!

 

Cheers!

Wendy