mitzydoodle Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Well, I applied with only a B.A. and so far have been admitted to the only program I've heard back from (though I suspect I may not have been so successful at a couple of others, which seem to have notified with top choices already). I would say that an M.A. is only a good idea if you weren't an art historian as an undergraduate. If you did significant research in art history as an undergrad, took lots of courses, and feel that you're up-to-breast with the current debates in the field to the degree that you can effortlessly convey that understanding between the lines of your SOP, then there's no point in doing an MA. In fact, if you come in with an MA at many programs, you will get less funding, while not necessarily being able to skip out of certain curricular requirements. --->I think this depends on your subfield, and as you rightly point out, the natue of your UG program. Some have language requirements that many don't have coming out of UG; the Master's gives you time to work on them, in addition to gaining more research expereince (I think I only wrote three art history papers in UG). Furthermore, there was a huge difference in the academic levels of my UG and G courses. Having MORE than one M.A. makes it look like you're just unfocused and not certain you want a career in academia. ----> I think this depends on what the degrees are in. I found a completely appropriate second MA. When I was deciding whether or not I should follow that path, I recieved no negative feedback whatsoever, and the professors I have been in contact with now that it is finished have all been impressed with it. In my case, it wasn't whether I wanted a career in academia, it was what specifically I wanted to study at the PhD level. Everybody's different, and we're obviously looking at the situation from two very different perspectives. Hopefully we're both right about the decisions we have made for ourselves. We'll just have to wait and see (hopefully not too much longer :-D). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleisthenes Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I think mitzy's points are very well taken. I should step back and say that my experience is limited to the educational background I come from. Even though I never did a capstone or honors project, and thus never wrote a thesis-level paper as an undergrad, my program was extremely rigorous and upper-level coursework was typically on par with what one might expect at the graduate level (this is according to my professors, but also just my comparing with friends who are AT graduate programs). At least, to get an A in seminar, one really needed to produce work that could stand up to scholarly critique, which is very different from just writing a "good" undergraduate paper. I also knew that I wanted to study at history before I was at undergrad, thus I took courses from my freshman year on. I practically had enough art history credits for two B.A.'s. Although because my department was very small (only 4 tenured professors, none of whom specialized in my subfield), I never actually took a course in what I actually want to study. Most of my courses in which I worked on my core focus were actually in other departments, which was one way I compensated for that dearth in my AH curriculum. This didn't stop me from gaining admission to study the very thing that I had no experience with through coursework. Someone coming from a background where they don't have as much AH and didn't feel they produced work on the graduate level (and thus have both a graduate-level writing sample and professors able to attest to the level of undergraduate thinking) would definitely be served by an M.A. But if you read independently and are able to produce an SOP and writing sample that reflect the knowledge you have gained on your own (and this is the essence of graduate school and scholarly work, anyway), then my feeling is that it's really unnecessary to have that extra certification (which is what an M.A. actually is). What you need to know as a scholar you will learn in Ph.D. programs, whether or not you have your M.A. One thing I would say is that if you have teaching experience and positive evaluations as an MA student, that can't hurt ultimately if you're looking to work at an SLAC or another teaching-intensive institution. I do still fail to see how two M.A.s is better than one if your goal is to work in academia. First, there's the cost. If you're funded it's one thing, but how many people get funded MAs in the humanities to begin with, let alone in art history? Sure, if you get your first M.A. in a totally unrelated field and suddenly have an existential sea-change and decide to study art, I could understand that. But if your goal is to teach art history, it seems a long, roundabout way to reach it. Given the state of employment in the field, graduate schools are concerned that you have the gumption not just to make it through, but to find a good job afterword that will put you in a position to reflect well on their program (and hire their graduates when you're tenured). Although I'm sure there are many, many exceptions to this, the more unrelated topics you pursue before eventually going after the Ph.D., the less you look like a candidate who is going to devote all of their professional (and, frankly, a huge chunk of personal) energies toward art-historical ends. Again, there are many exceptions, but with so many applicants for so few positions, and even fewer jobs, there really isn't a whole lot of breathing room for experimentation. Again, though, I think mitzy has great points and I would generally agree with the thrust of them. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policysecond Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Congrats to the Columbia admit!! Yeah who IS the admit? speak up! we're dying of curiosity here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitzydoodle Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 (edited) Cleisthenes- I'll PM you this evening with my details so you can see why I got the two MAs (still trying to preserve some sense of privacy). I agree with you- on the surface it does look redundant, but in my case I think it worked out for the better. And I was on full scholarship for the first one (just had to pay living expenses, which did add up) and for the second one I was on scholarship and stipend. I would not have taken out that amount of debt if I was not funded- nor do I suggest it to anyone else! On a related note- I do have a friend who got an MA in education, then decided art history was her calling, and got an MA in that (that is where we met). The art history in MA got her into a great program after being away from the field for so long, and the first one made her all the more attractive as a future TA/professor. She was fully funded for the second one as well. Your art history background sounds wonderful, and you do sound ready (in terms of motivation, maturity, and scholarly preparation) for PhD work (and there is a program that agrees with that as well)- I want to make it clear that I am no way implying otherwise for your case or anyone else--I'm really in no position to judge anyone on this board. But I do think you are unique and lucky that you knew even before college that you wanted to be an art historian (and I must admit I am a bit jealous of that!). I always thought I would go to law school, and it wasn't until my junior year abroad that I reevaluated my interests and priorities. Deciding to pursue art history meant I was behind on languages--now I can comfortably work in five, and two more are getting into shape as well, thanks to the MAs (among their other benefits). One other thing to think about: as I said before I do think you are prepared (and the program that accepted you also thinks this!), but we have to remember that we aren't accepted just because we are qualified. Pretty much everyone applying is qualified. The admissions process comes down to comparisons of qualified candidates- if you were on an adcom and had two equally intelligent candidates with great research ideas (and both seemed like ideal 'fits'), would you be more likely to take the one with or without the MA? It probably depends on the program/advisor, but I bet most would go for the MA. Furthermore, with the MA you often get more experience teaching, researching, and presenting at conferences, which also weighs in your favor when it comes to admissions. The MA also suggests you 'know what you are getting into' and shows pre-existing dedication to the field beyond undergrad. Finally, I was suggesting to artschoolhopeful that s/he look into MA programs if they aren't accepted into any PhD programs this year. And I stand by that as good advice for people who have gone through the PhD admissions and didn't make it- it is a great way to boost your profile for the next time you apply. I didn't mean to imply that everyone should get an MA before going on to the PhD- or even applying for one- just that it seems to be an increasing trend associated with the rising number of applications to programs that people do get them (and this is also dependant upon subfield, where often extra work is necessary before you can engage in meaningful doctorate-level research). It's uber-competitive out there. I like to think I'll get in somewhere, but I know there is a chance that I'll have to do round two next year. If that is the case, I know the areas to work on (there is always stuff to work on)-- and I know that having two MAs is not the reason. Edited February 14, 2010 by mitzydoodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watersnake Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Feeling pretty down since the word on the street (meaning the results page) is that what might have been my top choice is having a prospective students' weekend in less than two weeks. I have not been invited. Oh, to be a admit, prospect, waitlister, alternate, one-night-stand, neglected stepchild, secret grad student on the side who is always threatening to tell the legitimate students about the affair, new custodian in the AH dept...anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschoolhopeful Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Feeling pretty down since the word on the street (meaning the results page) is that what might have been my top choice is having a prospective students' weekend in less than two weeks. I have not been invited. Oh, to be a admit, prospect, waitlister, alternate, one-night-stand, neglected stepchild, secret grad student on the side who is always threatening to tell the legitimate students about the affair, new custodian in the AH dept...anything! Hang in there watersnake!! It's a tough year for all admissions, but I really do love that I can rant on this board, calm my nerves down and allow other people around me to live functioning lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyzero Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 (edited) I was the poster on the results board admitted by Columbia. To the person who asked, my subfield is modern. Thanks for the congratulations. And to those of you who haven't been accepted by their top choice this year, this is my second attempt on Columbia, so there is hope... Edited February 15, 2010 by tommyzero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veroordeeld Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I was the poster on the results board admitted by Columbia. To the person who asked, my subfield is modern. Thanks for the congratulations. And to those of you who haven't been accepted by their top choice this year, this is my second attempt on Columbia, so there is hope... Hearty congratulations, tommy! Is Columbia your top choice? The café below Avery library would be enough to sway me, hehe. Try the lemon yogurt cake, yummmmm....I mean, uh, professors, modernism, theory, etc etc. Just so you (and others know), the Princeton adcom meets Wednesday.... viel spaß, mein freund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitzydoodle Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Hearty congratulations, tommy! Is Columbia your top choice? The café below Avery library would be enough to sway me, hehe. Try the lemon yogurt cake, yummmmm....I mean, uh, professors, modernism, theory, etc etc. Just so you (and others know), the Princeton adcom meets Wednesday.... viel spaß, mein freund Lemon cake! Now I'm wishing I had applied to Columbia :-D Veroordeeld- how do you find out all this info (about adcoms). Also- are you Dutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watersnake Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Hang in there watersnake!! It's a tough year for all admissions, but I really do love that I can rant on this board, calm my nerves down and allow other people around me to live functioning lives. Thanks artschoolhopeful, had a bit too much wine last night and let some self-pity sneak in. My friends and family would appreciate this site immensely if they knew how much it deflected what would otherwise burden them! Good luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyzero Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 (edited) Hearty congratulations, tommy! Is Columbia your top choice? The café below Avery library would be enough to sway me, hehe. Try the lemon yogurt cake, yummmmm....I mean, uh, professors, modernism, theory, etc etc. Just so you (and others know), the Princeton adcom meets Wednesday.... viel spaß, mein freund Thanks for the congratulations. I am still very ambivalent about what my 'top choice' might be.... Columbia for location, and future career options, certainly; but perhaps UCL for faculty. Or Princeton... Gah! Thanks for the info on Princeton by the way! Edited February 15, 2010 by tommyzero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPotato Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Congrats to all the admits (esp. Columbia, as that will be my dream school when I apply for a phd) Are all the admits phds? When do MA admits come out? I've heard nothing from anyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake1204 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Does anyone know what the general rule is for deferring enrollment by a year in these graduate programs? Does it just depend on the school? The department? I'm specifically wondering about Texas and NYU. I haven't been able to find out on their Web sites and I'd rather not contact them about it before I hear back about my applications... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleisthenes Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Differs from school to school and department to department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policysecond Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Does anyone know whether acceptances from a program are sent out at the same time? Or are they sometimes staggered? For example, if 5 people are accepted to a program, are the notifications sent out all at once? Thanks. I think most programs select a few short-listed candidates and offer them admission right off the bat (either with a phone call from their potential advisor, or a general admission offer by email). Then they have their next batch of favorable applicants, who probably all get their offers at the same time. At least that's what it seems to me. Congrats on Columbia, tommyzero! You must be thrilled! Question about applying to CUNY Grad Center (to anyone who's applying/has applied): is the deadline really April 15th for fall admission? Because that's what the graduate admissions website says, but on the results page here from last year's applicants, it looks like people received offers in early March. Someone else on last year's forum mentioned a February 15th deadline but that it was unclear on the website...but that deadline is nowhere to be found on their website. I called them to clarify, and the lady said that yes, it's due April 15th (though she didn't seem very confident about it, so I'm STILL not sure if that's right). Anyone know when it's actually due? Or WAS due? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitzydoodle Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Anyone willing to guess which school will send out the next wave of notifications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summertouch Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I think most programs select a few short-listed candidates and offer them admission right off the bat (either with a phone call from their potential advisor, or a general admission offer by email). Then they have their next batch of favorable applicants, who probably all get their offers at the same time. At least that's what it seems to me. Congrats on Columbia, tommyzero! You must be thrilled! Question about applying to CUNY Grad Center (to anyone who's applying/has applied): is the deadline really April 15th for fall admission? Because that's what the graduate admissions website says, but on the results page here from last year's applicants, it looks like people received offers in early March. Someone else on last year's forum mentioned a February 15th deadline but that it was unclear on the website...but that deadline is nowhere to be found on their website. I called them to clarify, and the lady said that yes, it's due April 15th (though she didn't seem very confident about it, so I'm STILL not sure if that's right). Anyone know when it's actually due? Or WAS due? As far as I know, they're on a rolling basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb04 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Mitzy- my guesses/hopes: Northwestern. And Texas. It would be nice to receive something official... I'm hoping for a lot of activity this week. The CAA is over so they need to finish up their adcom meetings and send us some notifications! And Yale will reject 97% of us next week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veroordeeld Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I think most programs select a few short-listed candidates and offer them admission right off the bat (either with a phone call from their potential advisor, or a general admission offer by email). Then they have their next batch of favorable applicants, who probably all get their offers at the same time. At least that's what it seems to me. Congrats on Columbia, tommyzero! You must be thrilled! Question about applying to CUNY Grad Center (to anyone who's applying/has applied): is the deadline really April 15th for fall admission? Because that's what the graduate admissions website says, but on the results page here from last year's applicants, it looks like people received offers in early March. Someone else on last year's forum mentioned a February 15th deadline but that it was unclear on the website...but that deadline is nowhere to be found on their website. I called them to clarify, and the lady said that yes, it's due April 15th (though she didn't seem very confident about it, so I'm STILL not sure if that's right). Anyone know when it's actually due? Or WAS due? The February (the 1st this year, I believe) deadline is for those who want to be considered for financial aid, hence March acceptances in years past... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitzydoodle Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Mitzy- my guesses/hopes: Northwestern. And Texas. It would be nice to receive something official... I'm hoping for a lot of activity this week. The CAA is over so they need to finish up their adcom meetings and send us some notifications! And Yale will reject 97% of us next week... Jmb- it looks like you're right about Northwestern and Texas. I totally agree with you about CAA being over and, unfortunately, Yale as well. Just out of curiosity, did you post the Austin acceptance on the results board? If so, did you apply for their terminal MA or their MA/PhD track? I got the impression from your details that you were going for the Phd, but I wasn't sure if you threw in a terminal MA as a safety or if it was a reflection of their policy that you can only apply directly for the Phd if you already have a Master's (or something along those lines). Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policysecond Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 The February (the 1st this year, I believe) deadline is for those who want to be considered for financial aid, hence March acceptances in years past... Is that somewhere on the website? Ahhhhh I can't believe I didn't know this, and wasn't told when I called in! And it's just awesome that every single CUNY phone line is busy right now, and has been for the past hour. dshjkhfsjhfsjakd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veroordeeld Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Is that somewhere on the website? Ahhhhh I can't believe I didn't know this, and wasn't told when I called in! And it's just awesome that every single CUNY phone line is busy right now, and has been for the past hour. dshjkhfsjhfsjakd. sorry blue, but it says at the top here that "*Unless otherwise specified, the deadline for filing for Financial Aid is February 1." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policysecond Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 sorry blue, but it says at the top here that "*Unless otherwise specified, the deadline for filing for Financial Aid is February 1." Thanks - I must be blind. Though I just got the following response from them by email: "As was mentioned to you, we have one deadline for Fall admissions and it is April 15th. Once students are accepted into the Program, they will be notified on how they can apply for financial aid." Hm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb04 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Jmb- it looks like you're right about Northwestern and Texas. I totally agree with you about CAA being over and, unfortunately, Yale as well. Just out of curiosity, did you post the Austin acceptance on the results board? If so, did you apply for their terminal MA or their MA/PhD track? I got the impression from your details that you were going for the Phd, but I wasn't sure if you threw in a terminal MA as a safety or if it was a reflection of their policy that you can only apply directly for the Phd if you already have a Master's (or something along those lines). Thanks! Hi mitzy - Yes, I was the one who posted the Austin acceptance. I received an e-mail from potential advisors, but nothing official on Texas letterhead! I ultimately want the PhD, but was forced to apply for the Master's there because they don't allow you to apply for the PhD unless you already have a Master's. Silly policy! heheh It's probably the school's cash cow, because most MAs are not fully funded. I'm hoping to score a recruitment fellowship of some sort though. *crossing fingers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitzydoodle Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Hi mitzy - Yes, I was the one who posted the Austin acceptance. I received an e-mail from potential advisors, but nothing official on Texas letterhead! I ultimately want the PhD, but was forced to apply for the Master's there because they don't allow you to apply for the PhD unless you already have a Master's. Silly policy! heheh It's probably the school's cash cow, because most MAs are not fully funded. I'm hoping to score a recruitment fellowship of some sort though. *crossing fingers* I see...good luck! I know a couple of people who are at Austin now working on their doctorates (one is finishing their diss now, the other is abroad doing diss research) and they both really love the department. And I've only heard great things about the city. Well, here's to waiting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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