History of Art MA/PHD 2010

[georgica2]

I think most programs select a few short-listed candidates and offer them admission right off the bat (either with a phone call from their potential advisor, or a general admission offer by email). Then they have their next batch of favorable applicants, who probably all get their offers at the same time. At least that's what it seems to me.

Congrats on Columbia, tommyzero! You must be thrilled!

Question about applying to CUNY Grad Center (to anyone who's applying/has applied): is the deadline really April 15th for fall admission? Because that's what the graduate admissions website says, but on the results page here from last year's applicants, it looks like people received offers in early March. Someone else on last year's forum mentioned a February 15th deadline but that it was unclear on the website...but that deadline is nowhere to be found on their website. I called them to clarify, and the lady said that yes, it's due April 15th (though she didn't seem very confident about it, so I'm STILL not sure if that's right). Anyone know when it's actually due? Or WAS due?

I applied to CUNY -- the deadlines are here: http://www.gc.cuny.e...m_deadlines.htm

I'm assuming that's the page you've already seen, but one thing I very nearly missed (caught it just in time) was that Feb 1 was the deadline to be considered for funding. Honestly, the CUNY application/website was the most confusing and disorganized thing I've ever seen, so I'm still not entirely sure if that's accurate (or if I even completed the application correctly -- still haven't received any confirmation of my application. They said it takes 2 weeks to process, so I guess I'll give them until tomorrow?)

[edit: oops, totally missed the other responses with the same answer, though it seems the consensus is that no one actually has a clue what's going on with CUNY.]

Edited February 17, 2010 by georgica2

[georgica2]

Mitzy- my guesses/hopes:

Northwestern.

And Texas. It would be nice to receive something official...

I'm hoping for a lot of activity this week. The CAA is over so they need to finish up their adcom meetings and send us some notifications!

And Yale will reject 97% of us next week...

Ugh, the dreaded CAA -- also known as the reason why Art History notifies later than EVERY other subject. As I recall, Yale sent out the bloodbath shortly after CAA last year, so I bet we'll hear something from them soon. IFA is notoriously slow (late March - and acceptances and rejections are sent all at once.) And even though Columbia started unofficially notifying people of acceptances relatively early, I didn't get the rejection letter until the last week in March. Princeton notified 1st week in March, so that should be coming along shortly as well.

Since Chicago and Penn have already sent a handful of people of acceptances and waitlists, I'm hoping they'll get it over with and send the rest of us our rejection letters this week or next. It would be nice to hear something definitive -- I've reached the point where I obsessively check the results page at work (embarrassing and not productive.)

[policysecond]

I applied to CUNY -- the deadlines are here: http://www.gc.cuny.e...m_deadlines.htm

I'm assuming that's the page you've already seen, but one thing I very nearly missed (caught it just in time) was that Feb 1 was the deadline to be considered for funding. Honestly, the CUNY application/website was the most confusing and disorganized thing I've ever seen, so I'm still not entirely sure if that's accurate (or if I even completed the application correctly -- still haven't received any confirmation of my application. They said it takes 2 weeks to process, so I guess I'll give them until tomorrow?)

[edit: oops, totally missed the other responses with the same answer, though it seems the consensus is that no one actually has a clue what's going on with CUNY.]

The confusing thing about this is that before I even looked at the deadline chart on their (alarmingly?) disorganized website, I decided to call the Art History department directly and they told me the deadline was April 15th. No mention of the February 1st deadline, or any talk of financial aid. So I emailed the admissions office and asked if I would still be considered for financial aid if I submitted my app now, and they wrote back "That’s up to the Art History department."

And the AH department said, "We have one deadline for Fall admissions and it is April 15th. Once students are accepted into the Program, they will be notified on how they can apply for financial aid."

So...whatever. I submitted my application. Hope this wasn't a waste of $125.

[georgica2]

The confusing thing about this is that before I even looked at the deadline chart on their (alarmingly?) disorganized website, I decided to call the Art History department directly and they told me the deadline was April 15th. No mention of the February 1st deadline, or any talk of financial aid. So I emailed the admissions office and asked if I would still be considered for financial aid if I submitted my app now, and they wrote back "That’s up to the Art History department."

And the AH department said, "We have one deadline for Fall admissions and it is April 15th. Once students are accepted into the Program, they will be notified on how they can apply for financial aid."

So...whatever. I submitted my application. Hope this wasn't a waste of $125.

Who wants to bet that it's because there isn't any funding this year? NYC is in the midst of a massive budget crisis. But seriously, I was so put off by the insanity of their application and total lack of information on the website that I almost didn't apply -- if it's this hard just to get the application in, I can't imagine what it's like actually being a student there -- however, the faculty is a great match for my interests and the location is ideal.

I know someone said that last year there were a bunch of notifications posted in March, but does that mean that CUNY is rolling admissions? April 15th is when most programs require a final decision from admitted applicants, so clearly they're not evaluating applications all at once if the final deadline is in April.

This sort of thing is what's so frustrating about this whole process -- there's no consistency or transparency, not only between all of the different programs, but within individual programs as well. Some people get random interviews, some get unofficial calls/emails from professors, some schools inexplicably (and cruelly) notify acceptances weeks before rejections so we all sit around clinging to that last shred of hope... If I knew that notifications were going to go out on March 20th, for instance, I'd be able to just calm down and realize that there's nothing that I can do about it, but knowing that I could hear something at any moment is turning me into a nervous wreck (has anyone else been stress-eating like a maniac?)

Enough whining -- needed to get that off my chest, even though it's really just stating the obvious. Positive thinking! We're ALL getting accepted this week, right?

[Tapioca]

has anyone else been stress-eating like a maniac?)

*raises hand*

I was somewhat calm about the wait because I thought ALL results would come in march, until I googled "admission results" a few nights ago and found this forum and the results page.

To add to the pressure even more, I got the UCLA email notification at 2:46am on Saturday, so now I can't even take a break from obsessing during nights and weekends!

[artschoolhopeful]

It feels pretty grim this admissions round, doesn't it?

[bobo_the_muse]

It feels pretty grim this admissions round, doesn't it?

FYI: I am finishing my PhD in art history this year at a top-ranked R1, having won multiple prestigious fellowships and awards, and basically done everything I could have possibly done to cultivate a long CV. I have applied for over 20 jobs and postdocs. Out of this, I have received ONE interview and no offers. CAA this year was filled with nervous ABDs and recent PhDs freaking OUT that there are no jobs. With the rise in contingent faculty (adjuncts, Visiting asst. profs, etc), the availability of tenure-track jobs is plummeting; nobody thinks this trend will reverse itself, even when the economy improves. By one account, tenure track job listings were down 40% this year (CAA's own statistic). So basically, I'm not trying to tell you that you are all crazy for wanting PhDs in art history (because I wanted one too), but I am telling you that it will not be the worst thing for you if you do not get in. To back up this assertion, here is a link to the "venting page" of the academic jobs wiki, a resource for academic job seekers to post information related to the academic job search:

http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/The_venting_page

explore the art history heading on the main jobs wiki page and you can see what kinds of jobs were available this year...

best of luck to you all!

[mitzydoodle]

Congrats to the Rutgers acceptances!

[Guest Amon-Ra]

Congrats to the Rutgers acceptances!

Hey folks-- neurotic question of the hour: What do you think it means that I haven't heard from Rutgers yet? Since other students were accepted does that mean I wasn't, or that I was waitlisted, or that they send responses in batches? Shed all possible light, if you please.

(S'okay if the silence is an implicit "no," because I have a different offer that makes me happy. This whole goshdarn process just makes me goshdarn curious.)

[veroordeeld]

FYI: I am finishing my PhD in art history this year at a top-ranked R1, having won multiple prestigious fellowships and awards, and basically done everything I could have possibly done to cultivate a long CV. I have applied for over 20 jobs and postdocs. Out of this, I have received ONE interview and no offers. CAA this year was filled with nervous ABDs and recent PhDs freaking OUT that there are no jobs. With the rise in contingent faculty (adjuncts, Visiting asst. profs, etc), the availability of tenure-track jobs is plummeting; nobody thinks this trend will reverse itself, even when the economy improves. By one account, tenure track job listings were down 40% this year (CAA's own statistic). So basically, I'm not trying to tell you that you are all crazy for wanting PhDs in art history (because I wanted one too), but I am telling you that it will not be the worst thing for you if you do not get in. To back up this assertion, here is a link to the "venting page" of the academic jobs wiki, a resource for academic job seekers to post information related to the academic job search:

http://academicjobs....he_venting_page

explore the art history heading on the main jobs wiki page and you can see what kinds of jobs were available this year...

best of luck to you all!

Hi Bobo,

Thanks so much for posting this; I'm sorry you've been so unlucky with the job market, but you wouldn't believe (or, perhaps you would...) how many professors have told me, "oh, don't worry, if you do good work you'll get a job....I'm sure things will rebound soon." Uh, not always--don't pee on my shoe and tell me it's raining, to quote Judge Judy!

To my fellow applicants: though it would suck majorly to get shut out now, I think it would suck even harder to get admitted, invest our blood/sweat/tears into this degree, only to be told "whoops, we've produced waaaayyy too many more PhDs than there are academic jobs, but hey, *we* already have tenure, so just keep going for those postdocs! xoxoxo"

[ristastic]

Hey folks-- neurotic question of the hour: What do you think it means that I haven't heard from Rutgers yet? Since other students were accepted does that mean I wasn't, or that I was waitlisted, or that they send responses in batches? Shed all possible light, if you please.

(S'okay if the silence is an implicit "no," because I have a different offer that makes me happy. This whole goshdarn process just makes me goshdarn curious.)

I'm in the same boat, both with Rutgers and another school. I've decided not to jump to any conclusions until I get some definite news in my e-mail box. Doesn't stop me from refreshing the results page every 5 minutes or so like a total nutball.

[shake1204]

I can't stop refreshing it either. Just waiting to see that magic word "Texas."

[bobo_the_muse]

Hi Bobo,

Thanks so much for posting this; I'm sorry you've been so unlucky with the job market, but you wouldn't believe (or, perhaps you would...) how many professors have told me, "oh, don't worry, if you do good work you'll get a job....I'm sure things will rebound soon." Uh, not always--don't pee on my shoe and tell me it's raining, to quote Judge Judy!

To my fellow applicants: though it would suck majorly to get shut out now, I think it would suck even harder to get admitted, invest our blood/sweat/tears into this degree, only to be told "whoops, we've produced waaaayyy too many more PhDs than there are academic jobs, but hey, *we* already have tenure, so just keep going for those postdocs! xoxoxo"

Veroordeeld,

I am shocked and appalled that these professors are telling you that hard work and a good diss will get you a job. It's great that you are skeptical; you absolutely should be. My advice to all of you who do start PhD programs is to work VERY hard to cultivate a set of skills that will be marketable both within and outside of the academy. IMHO, tenured professors who have been teaching for a while are simply out of touch with the conditions "on the ground." Or they expect that all their students can move around like nomads for 1-10 years, make the same wages they pay at Starbucks (but often without the same benefits accorded to a barista!) and put their personal lives on hold. This is a routine lifestyle for freshly-minted PhDs in the humanities these days.

Basically, I think you should go into a humanities PhD program thinking that there is a very real possibility of coming out with no prospect of a job...in other words, one should not undertake this degree and think that it will earn you a job. Be pragmatic, think about the kind of life you want to lead (do you want to have job security? do you want children? etc).

ALSO: I implore you all not to accept any offer to unless you are fully funded. Paying for the privilege of being unemployed and in serious debt on the other end makes no sense.

Good luck.

Edited February 17, 2010 by bobo_the_muse

[jmb04]

I can't stop refreshing it either. Just waiting to see that magic word "Texas."

For Masters or PhD?

For PhD I think the adcom meets this week..

[shake1204]

For Masters or PhD?

For PhD I think the adcom meets this week..

Masters, actually. Someone mentioned that the adcom met last week. Guess we'll know soon enough.

[veroordeeld]

Princeton's meeting as we "speak." Then the dean will accept or reject each member of the (tiny!) committee's ideal incoming class....eating me up inside.

Edited February 17, 2010 by veroordeeld

[lizart]

Hi all,

I don't usually put in my two cents in these conversations, but I feel the need to say something. Those two doom-and-gloom posts from our older, and probably wiser, colleagues caught my attention. I think we ALL know, or should know, how difficult it is to get a job. I think we all know that we did not choose a practical career path. I think we all know that unless we are very very lucky and also very very flexible in our personal lives, we will be disappointed after grad school. But right now, as we sit in our respective offices and living rooms sick to our stomachs with the hope of that fellowship and the fear of some ad comm crushing our dreams, it is not helpful to remind us.

My mentor at undergrad reminded me of this every time we discussed my career. Guess what? It didn't dissuade me. I'm the better for the warning, I worked harder to prove I could hack it. I appreciate that this is a difficult job and the average-Joe-or-Jane will not make it. So what? Are we supposed to go to school and give up? To paraphrase.. be 'shocked and appalled that someone told you you could do good work and have a good diss and get a job'? Do average work and a not-so-awesome dissertation? Not me. Thanks, but no thanks.

I'm going in fully aware of the possible unemployment and the certain poverty for the foreseeable future. But don't tell me to give up my dream before I've started. And don't tell a whole generation of art historians to give up because you haven't had a particularly easy time succeeding. The job market is not huge, we are not in accounting or business or public education. But there are hundreds of institutions in this country and most of them have an art history department. Do the math. Some of us will get those jobs. Some of us won't. Some of us will be high school European history teachers. And that is admirable. What greater mission than to help young people to think critically if we can't work at a research university?

In any case, I don't mean to attack those negative posters. I just think pragmatism and cynicism are two different things. It's a little too soon to be cynical about a career I haven't started. I've spent too much time in the past couple of weeks upset because of this process. Time to turn it around, work my bum off, and hope it's enough. That's all any of us can do.

And I agree that none of us should go into significant debt to fund this. *Here's hoping for that full ride.

Edited February 17, 2010 by lizart

[ursprache]

Hi all,

I don't usually put in my two cents in these conversations, but I feel the need to say something. Those two doom-and-gloom posts from our older, and probably wiser, colleagues caught my attention. I think we ALL know, or should know, how difficult it is to get a job. I think we all know that we did not choose a practical career path. I think we all know that unless we are very very lucky and also very very flexible in our personal lives, we will be disappointed after grad school. But right now, as we sit in our respective offices and living rooms sick to our stomachs with the hope of that fellowship and the fear of some ad comm crushing our dreams, it is not helpful to remind us.

My mentor at undergrad reminded me of this every time we discussed my career. Guess what? It didn't dissuade me. I'm the better for the warning, I worked harder to prove I could hack it. I appreciate that this is a difficult job and the average-Joe-or-Jane will not make it. So what? Are we supposed to go to school and give up? To paraphrase.. be 'shocked and appalled that someone told you you could do good work and have a good diss and get a job'? Do average work and a not-so-awesome dissertation? Not me. Thanks, but no thanks.

I'm going in fully aware of the possible unemployment and the certain poverty for the foreseeable future. But don't tell me to give up my dream before I've started. And don't tell a whole generation of art historians to give up because you haven't had a particularly easy time succeeding. The job market is not huge, we are not in accounting or business or public education. But there are hundreds of institutions in this country and most of them have an art history department. Do the math. Some of us will get those jobs. Some of us won't. Some of us will be high school European history teachers. And that is admirable. What greater mission than to help young people to think critically if we can't work at a research university?

In any case, I don't mean to attack those negative posters. I just think pragmatism and cynicism are two different things. It's a little too soon to be cynical about a career I haven't started. I've spent too much time in the past couple of weeks upset because of this process. Time to turn it around, work my bum off, and hope it's enough. That's all any of us can do.

And I agree that none of us should go into significant debt to fund this. *Here's hoping for that full ride.

Here here!

[watersnake]

Hi all,

I don't usually put in my two cents in these conversations, but I feel the need to say something. Those two doom-and-gloom posts from our older, and probably wiser, colleagues caught my attention. I think we ALL know, or should know, how difficult it is to get a job. I think we all know that we did not choose a practical career path. I think we all know that unless we are very very lucky and also very very flexible in our personal lives, we will be disappointed after grad school. But right now, as we sit in our respective offices and living rooms sick to our stomachs with the hope of that fellowship and the fear of some ad comm crushing our dreams, it is not helpful to remind us.

My mentor at undergrad reminded me of this every time we discussed my career. Guess what? It didn't dissuade me. I'm the better for the warning, I worked harder to prove I could hack it. I appreciate that this is a difficult job and the average-Joe-or-Jane will not make it. So what? Are we supposed to go to school and give up? To paraphrase.. be 'shocked and appalled that someone told you you could do good work and have a good diss and get a job'? Do average work and a not-so-awesome dissertation? Not me. Thanks, but no thanks.

I'm going in fully aware of the possible unemployment and the certain poverty for the foreseeable future. But don't tell me to give up my dream before I've started. And don't tell a whole generation of art historians to give up because you haven't had a particularly easy time succeeding. The job market is not huge, we are not in accounting or business or public education. But there are hundreds of institutions in this country and most of them have an art history department. Do the math. Some of us will get those jobs. Some of us won't. Some of us will be high school European history teachers. And that is admirable. What greater mission than to help young people to think critically if we can't work at a research university?

In any case, I don't mean to attack those negative posters. I just think pragmatism and cynicism are two different things. It's a little too soon to be cynical about a career I haven't started. I've spent too much time in the past couple of weeks upset because of this process. Time to turn it around, work my bum off, and hope it's enough. That's all any of us can do.

And I agree that none of us should go into significant debt to fund this. *Here's hoping for that full ride.

Thanks for this, nicely said.

[tommyzero]

Hi Bobo,

Thanks so much for posting this; I'm sorry you've been so unlucky with the job market, but you wouldn't believe (or, perhaps you would...) how many professors have told me, "oh, don't worry, if you do good work you'll get a job....I'm sure things will rebound soon." Uh, not always--don't pee on my shoe and tell me it's raining, to quote Judge Judy!

To my fellow applicants: though it would suck majorly to get shut out now, I think it would suck even harder to get admitted, invest our blood/sweat/tears into this degree, only to be told "whoops, we've produced waaaayyy too many more PhDs than there are academic jobs, but hey, *we* already have tenure, so just keep going for those postdocs! xoxoxo"

In a similar vein to this strand of premature post-doctoral employment angst, I remember reading (on this website, or perhaps another) a statistical analysis of the colleges at which professors at major art history departments had taken their PhDs. But I can't seem to find the link anywhere - has anyone ever seen such a thing, or did I imagine it in a fit of fevered paranoia?

[bobo_the_muse]

hi lizart et al,

your comments are well taken. taking a cue from your post, cynicism and pragmatism are two very different things. and i would place my comments squarely in the pragmatic category. i did not say that none of you will find jobs and i certainly did not mean to imply that you should forgo your dreams (that would be rather hypocritical of me!). i am just trying to strike a tone of reality. whether or not you think i'm cynical or pragmatic, the fact remains that even if one has an incredible cv and great dissertation, a job may not materialize when you are out of grad school. this is something that one needs to know before one starts. it's great that you have already accepted this reality, but there may be other people out there who need to hear this information who don't have undergrad advisors who have prepared them for it. and i think that it's important to make this a topic of discussion from the beginning of your academic careers so it does not come to bite you down the road.

the negative tone of my posts is not a reflection of my unique and cynical outlook, but is more a factor of what is going on right now in the academic job market. that is what i wanted to relay because i thought that some of you might find it useful. i completely empathize with the process you are all going through. i know it sucks. if the information i relay is difficult to take, i'm sorry, but i hope you can believe me when i say that i'm not being an alarmist about this. i can see that my comments are not well timed (and i'm sorry for that), with committee decisions coming down right now. believe me, i understand what rejection feels like. but i also thought that the insights of someone further along might give comfort to some of who who don't get the offers you have dreamed of.

again, best of luck. i hope you all get what you want.

[cleisthenes]

In a similar vein to this strand of premature post-doctoral employment angst, I remember reading (on this website, or perhaps another) a statistical analysis of the colleges at which professors at major art history departments had taken their PhDs. But I can't seem to find the link anywhere - has anyone ever seen such a thing, or did I imagine it in a fit of fevered paranoia?

The Art History Newsletter had some good stats collected:

http://arthistorynewsletter.com/blog/?p=476

http://arthistorynewsletter.com/blog/?p=483

Interesting to compare perceived prestige/size/placement success, as it's somewhat counter-intuitive for me in a couple of instances.

[georgica2]

With regard to CUNY -- after all of my ranting last night, I got an email bright and early this morning confirming that all of my materials had been received and processed. The email also said "Your application is complete for review purposes and will be reviewed by the admissions committee" -- not sure if that means that they're going to review it NOW (i.e. rolling admissions) or not, though. Still confused, but glad to know that they're at least somewhat organized!

[jmb04]

Congrats to the successful Rutgers applicants!

I almost wish I applied there just so I'd have some news right now. heheh kidding. For everyone else, are you enjoying the sound of crickets as much as I am??

[Tapioca]

For everyone else, are you enjoying the sound of crickets as much as I am??

Can't say I'm enjoying, but I do hear them loud and clear!

PS: I see you're applying to U of M. I live in Ann Arbor, so let me know if you need any info about the city.