GRE Quantitative

[newenglandshawn]

I know this question is often brought up on here but I was wanting to get everyone's fresh perspective. I am due to take the GRE at the end of May. I'm feeling pretty good about the verbal section, but I am terrible at math. When I took a practice test, I only did about half of the quantitative section and didn't really bother with the rest. And now that I am studying for the exam, I am finding that the math concepts - which I have not dealt with in well over a decade - are not coming easily for me.

 

I know many people say to not even bother with studying for the quantitative section, but I can't imagine that someone who gets below 150 (assuming I do if I don't study at all for it) has any chance of getting into a top program - especially if he/she has other deficiencies in the application (namely, languages). So, on an anecdotal level, what are some of the lower scores you've heard people get on the quantitative section and still get into a top program? Should I bother putting 3-5 weeks studying math, and then spend the rest of my time brushing up for the verbal (I'm feeling confident that I should be able to get in the mid-160s for the verbal)? Or should I just focus solely on the verbal and writing and not worry at all about the quantitative?

 

I wish you could take the sections separately! I don't want to put off the verbal section until the fall, but I wouldn't mind more time to study the quantitative so I can actually learn the concepts.

[browncow]

From what I've gathered it's not very important to the application. I can't offer perspective as I have a math background, but as someone who has tutored math to others who do not enjoy it, I can say stress and attitude are a factor in how well you do. Don't give up during the test! I would suggest taking a few more practice test sections and trying to focus on your test-taking approach rather than getting every question. Work from what you know how to do to, and try to eliminate wrong answers.

 

Step back from the numbers that look intimidating, and you will find some questions you can answer intuitively. An example I've seen is the proportional area of a smaller triangle within a larger triangle. If you don't know how to work through formulas for area -- and even if you do -- it's probably faster to solve this by just thinking about how many times you would fit one into the other.

 

You have a fair amount of time before you start applying, and it seems your focus would be best spent shoring up other weaknesses, e.g., languages, that actually have a bearing on how you will do in the program.

 

It's my view that the standardized test is one of the less important factors in general, as long as the relevant sections are not abysmal. The most relevant section is writing, and mine was so-so. It takes 30 minutes for me to write an email I am happy with, and only when I started the test did I remember that I use a completely different keyboard on my own computer. Things worked out anyway.

 

Good luck!

[LotzaCoffee]

There are (anecdotal at least) accounts of admission committees basing funding decisions off of the combined GRE score, even for humanities admits.  Certainly not every program or school will do this.  But you may want to look into your preferred programs before taking the GRE.  I doubt it would matter very much for a Masters program since so few are funded anyways, but if you're looking at PhD level programs it's something to keep in mind.

 

Certainly your verbal and writing portions of the test will be important (90th percentile and up is ideal for top-tier US programs).  I got a 157 on my Quant and after asking around to current and past students in top-tier programs, no one had any reservations about that score. 

[awells27]

I would aim for mid 150s on math, sorry.  You still have 6 weeks, so if you really want to improve that score, get Barron's 2013 guide and just do the math, and then drop 100 bucks for magoosh and do all the math and the practice tests, which are generally harder than the real GRE.  Otherwise, put off the test another month or two.  Average humanities admits at upper tier schools get 90th percentile or better on verbal and somewhere in the 150s on the math, unless they have math background.  An abysmal score, from what faculty have told me, is only compensated by something exceptional in the other parts of the application.  It sucks, but this is the reality, although you will always get one or two posters who speak of an upper tier admit with an abysmal math score; but this is the exception and not the rule.  

[Body Politics]

I had POIs tell me that it doesn't matter. But I didn't apply to any top-tier schools, so take that as you will. I do think, however, that it would really be only in the most unlikely of circumstances that your math score would be the thing that got you into--or kept you out of--any program in RELG. So -- study hard, but if/when you have to cut something in your GRE preparations as the date approaches, cut math and focus on the other stuff.

 

Edit: I decided it's probably unhelpful to tell you not to worry too much about the quant. Study your ass off, prepare for success, etc. I'm just saying, if there are other weak spots in your application, make sure to prioritize those when push comes to shove because those will likely be more important.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Body Politics

[marXian]

If you can do anything to try and raise it above 150, I think will help, but keep in mind that the quant score will never be the deciding factor between you and another applicant. If your application makes it to the final round of cutting, the adcom would much sooner make a decision on the nuances of the writing sample or the LORs than decide by quantitative GRE score. Test score matter more in the early rounds, but even then, it's the verbal and writing scores that are the most important.

[Averroes MD]

What's considered a great GRE (verbal) for PhD programs?

Edited March 19, 2014 by Averroes MD

[newenglandshawn]

Thanks for your input, everyone! I'm pretty optimistic that I can get my score up to 150 at least. In my practice exam, I scored a 142 (I know, that is horrible), but I didn't even answer 1/3rd of the questions and the other 2/3rds I was making very half-hearted attempts. I will do some studying over the next few weeks, but then try to utilize the remaining time to perfect my verbal comprehension. After I take the GRE in May, I will then turn my full attention to other areas (SOP, languages, etc.). As someone mentioned, if I were to put off the GRE until the fall so that I can study more for the quantitative, I would be wasting a lot of time that could be devoted elsewhere. So it's probably better to just get it over with faster and see where the chips fall.

 

 

What's considered a great GRE (verbal) for PhD programs?

 

From what I've heard, you definitely want to be above the 90th percentile to be in that neighborhood (which, in the new scoring, is around 163, I think). Of course, if you can get upwards of 166+, I think you are sitting very pretty. Others can correct me, though!

[awells27]

Top tier schools is 95th percentile (165), while I got a 164 but a 6 on the writing.  My problem was the RCs, as I was never satisfied with any of the answer choices.  Of course, every adcomm is different.  Some professors think the test is a joke, while others are sold on it.  

Edited March 19, 2014 by awells27

[Averroes MD]

Cool. Thanks for the responses. Glad I took the GRE already and got it over with.

[maximusconfesses]

I got a 142 quant after pulling it up from a 136 and was accepted at Vanderbilt, Syracuse, Villanova's Philosophy program and was waitlisted at Duke and Emory. I was concerned my scores might work against me,but if your verbal and writing are strong (I got 165 and 6, respectively), I really don't think bad quant scores will hold you back from having the rest of your application taken seriously.

[newenglandshawn]

I got a 142 quant after pulling it up from a 136 and was accepted at Vanderbilt, Syracuse, Villanova's Philosophy program and was waitlisted at Duke and Emory.

 

Wow! That is remarkable. You've motivated me to spend about another week studying for the quant section and then leave it at that.

 

On the other hand, I'm assuming the rest of your application was quite robust?

[sacklunch]

My quant was below 50%. My verbal was below 90%. I got into several top programs. I had a lot of other things to set me apart from others, I think (e.g. language training). Had I applied in a different field I'm sure they would have hurt me. In fact they likely did at some of the top schools. Either way, I didn't have to spend six months of my life studying geometry to get into a program, thank the gods. 

 

I remember reading post after post on this board about 'you have to be 95%+' to get into a program. Meh. I can testify that that is simply not true. Be wary that those that are most willing to share their GRE scores are likely those that scored well. The same goes on the results section on this board. Again, in a different subfield, perhaps they matter more. I imagine if one is applying in a field without an easy way to weed out the competition (again, languages are the fastest and dirtiest way in mine), they begin to matter a great deal. 

 

cheers

[newenglandshawn]

I imagine if one is applying in a field without an easy way to weed out the competition (again, languages are the fastest and dirtiest way in mine), they begin to matter a great deal. 

 

cheers

 

Well, I'll be applying to OT/HB, and my languages are probably my greatest deficiency. So I guess even if I hit a grand slam on my GRE, they won't even notice because I'll already be weeded out.

 

But there's not a whole lot I can honestly do at this point, besides brushing up on the languages I've already taken. I can't, after all, take any courses between now and when I apply. So, I'll just do the best I can, pay my $600+ to all the schools to which I'll be applying, and see if any doors open!

[browncow]

Why can't you take a course in the summer or fall?

 

I am probably setting myself up for a lot of disagreement here . . .

 

I also don't see why you need a course to work on reading skills in a dead language. Most of the books you can buy for dead languages are designed for self-study anyway. Sure, you don't have the outside validation to go on your application, but you say in honesty that you have some language proficiency. The application won't tell anyone whether you've brushed up on your past coursework or not.

[Alex Madlinger]

Dr. Mark Goodacre told me today that it would be worth it to take the next summer (during my MA) to work on 156 Quant score and raise it to 160-162. True, it won't change anything if you aren't already competitive. But I asked him this question specifically, and he told me to raise my Q score.

[newenglandshawn]

Why can't you take a course in the summer or fall?

 

 

I definitely can't take a course this summer due to job and family commitments, plus financial limitations - but, more significantly, I'm at least four hours away from any summer language course (at least the cognate languages). However, there is an unaccredited evangelical college that's five minutes from me where I might be able to take a course in Aramaic this fall. We'll see!

[Body Politics]

Dr. Mark Goodacre told me today that it would be worth it to take the next summer (during my MA) to work on 156 Quant score and raise it to 160-162. True, it won't change anything if you aren't already competitive. But I asked him this question specifically, and he told me to raise my Q score.

What? I thought Goodacre didn't believe in Q.

[therealhogwarts]

My quant was below 50%. My verbal was below 90%. I got into several top programs. I had a lot of other things to set me apart from others, I think (e.g. language training). Had I applied in a different field I'm sure they would have hurt me. In fact they likely did at some of the top schools. Either way, I didn't have to spend six months of my life studying geometry to get into a program, thank the gods. 

 

I remember reading post after post on this board about 'you have to be 95%+' to get into a program. Meh. I can testify that that is simply not true. Be wary that those that are most willing to share their GRE scores are likely those that scored well. The same goes on the results section on this board. Again, in a different subfield, perhaps they matter more. I imagine if one is applying in a field without an easy way to weed out the competition (again, languages are the fastest and dirtiest way in mine), they begin to matter a great deal. 

 

cheers

What would you qualify as a top program? Yale, Chicago, Harvard, Columbia? I assume since you said "several" that you got into one of these. If so, that is incredible with less than 50% in quantitative. 

[sacklunch]

I would rather not say publicly, so feel free to PM me. As I have mentioned, I'll be at Duke this fall. I assume you count that as top (4% acceptance this year I think)?

[sacklunch]

Well, I'll be applying to OT/HB, and my languages are probably my greatest deficiency. So I guess even if I hit a grand slam on my GRE, they won't even notice because I'll already be weeded out.

 

But there's not a whole lot I can honestly do at this point, besides brushing up on the languages I've already taken. I can't, after all, take any courses between now and when I apply. So, I'll just do the best I can, pay my $600+ to all the schools to which I'll be applying, and see if any doors open!

 

I think it largely depends on your interests within HB. Some schools are more philological, some are not. As I said, I think my strong language background made up for my lackluster GRE. This is really a guess, though, and is purely based off my experience and reading threads on this board for the last five or so years.

[MsBOOM]

In regards to MTS/MDIV/MA degrees, I don't think it matters all that much. I applied with 45%Q, 67%V, and high 70-something for writing and got into all six schools I applied to (I am NOT a good test taker - I got these scores even though my undergrad GPA was a 3.9 in two majors and my MTS GPA is 3.95!). Funny thing is, I know many people here at HDS and other Harvard graduate schools with the same scores (mostly in masters programs, but I know of some even in PhD programs).

 

 

Howeeeeever, for the slew of PhD apps that I will be wading through this fall, I'll be studying for the GRE from now until Nov, taking a course, and more, because I'm more than positive that my GRE was what rang the alarm bells for the one and only school I applied to this past app season.

Edited March 20, 2014 by MsBOOM

[sacklunch]

Yeah those scores are average it seems for a masters. I was told by several profs, that you want to be around 85% verbal or above, which I was (my writing was mid 90's). 

 

Good luck on that damn test!!!

[therealhogwarts]

Duke is certainly a top program for certain areas in religion. I tried to PM you but was told you cannot receive any messages.

[maximusconfesses]

Wow! That is remarkable. You've motivated me to spend about another week studying for the quant section and then leave it at that.

 

On the other hand, I'm assuming the rest of your application was quite robust?

Yeah, I think the rest of my application was really strong. I had great recommenders and a really strong SOP. I fought hard for that 142, lol! So yeah, I'd encourage you to keep working hard, but also to make sure the other parts of your application really make you stand out.