Ivy vs Non-Ivy PhD

[psunak99]

Hi,

 

I have been accepted to an Ivy league and a non-ivy league college for bioinformatics PhD program. Both have great programs.  The non-ivy league has a program which is a little bit better for my personal situation and i feel i would learn a lot more there as a student. However, I already have a close relations with many PI's at the Ivy League which could lead to graduating faster. Im definitely thankful that I have choices however I am in a tight spot and i was hoping you guys could help me out. What are some things i should consider to make a better decision? Does Ivy vs Non-Ivy have a huge impact on career in future (my future goals are to stay in academic, however i could end up in industry depending on the economic situations)?

 

Thank you.

 

[Munashi]

Are the funding situations comparable at each institution?

[bsharpe269]

Ivy vs non Ivy makes little or zero difference. Are the rankings fairly comperable or are they very different?

[psunak99]

Are the funding situations comparable at each institution?

 

The funding for Ivy is about $4000 more. The living cost are also about the same at both places (both cities). I appreciate your help.

 

Ivy vs non Ivy makes little or zero difference. Are the rankings fairly comperable or are they very different?

There is not much difference in rankings either. Non-ivy may be a little bit better but could might as well be even. 

I have been told that if you're going to academics, having an education from an ivy looks good on CV and future funding opportunities. Any truth to that? Also, more students from the Ivy have external fellowships which looks good on CV post-graduation. Thoughts? I appreciate your help. 

[Vene]

I'd be really tempted to go for the one with the better stipend. But, if the two different programs have comparable rank, I'm not sure the Ivy prestige will mean much since the non-Ivy will also have a great deal. This is especially true if the Ivy in question isn't Harvard or Yale (or if it's the one which is regularly confused with a certain state university in Pennsylvania).

So, if it is a case where both programs are good fits for you and places where you can see yourself succeeding, I'd go with more money. Otherwise, go to where you think you'll be most successful in life (which is NOT always the same as being successful as a student).

[PhDerp]

I have been told that if you're going to academics, having an education from an ivy looks good on CV and future funding opportunities. Any truth to that? Also, more students from the Ivy have external fellowships which looks good on CV post-graduation. Thoughts? I appreciate your help. 

 

If you're worried about opportunities, I'd say look into the professor's prestige (though I'm not entirely sure the best way to do that myself!). I used Microsoft's Academic search thingy to check out my potential advisor, which looked up his recent publications, citations, and "field rank".

 

I've heard about people applying for awards that knew they weren't going to get them because the awards are, as an unwritten rule, given only to people with famous advisors. (My source: It was a post on this forum! I might be able to find that topic again, I'm sure it was recent...) There's definitely something to be said for having a renowned advisor in your field.

 

Also, you can see if you have to do the same research your advisor is already working on. I was accepted to a program and asked about completing the project I suggested -- it's something they don't currently do in the lab but they invented a kind of technology that can help me do it -- and apparently I will be allowed to work on it! So if you haven't asked already, you can try to interview your POIs first about what exactly you might be working on.

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Budweiser or Heineken?

[Icydubloon]

Ivy

[Vene]

Ivy

I'm curious. You say Ivy, but give no reason. Why is it that when you were accepted at both Princeton and Penn that you're attending CMU instead?

[skyentist]

How I would choose between two equally ranked programs:

 

1. Research/POI interest

2. Money

3. City

4. Climate (weather and at the school)

5. Ease of returning home (for holidays dont want to spend $400 each time)

.

.

.

.

.

293. Ivy or not

[juilletmercredi]

The non-ivy league has a program which is a little bit better for my personal situation and i feel i would learn a lot more there as a student.

Honestly, I think you have answered your own question with this line.  Go to the place that is going to be better for you as a student and a person.  (Also, close relationships with PIs doesn't automatically mean you will graduate faster.)

The Ivy League is an athletic conference, not a sacred list of the Most High Universities.  There are plenty of well-respected universities and programs that aren't in the Ivy League.  Having an education from a well-reputed program with good research, respected faculty and good placement rates looks good on your CV, but there are many non-Ivy institutions that fit that bill.  (And honestly, in some fields, the Ivies are crap wrt research.)

You can get an external fellowship from anywhere, since those are more about you than the institution.  The institution matters but I'm assuming we're comparing a school like Columbia with a school like UIUC or Penn State here.  Those schools have tremendous assets, lots of resources, great funding, etc.

The only reason I MIGHT think about considering the Ivy prestige effect is if you were significantly interested in the potential of a non-academic position in a field in which Ivy prestige is important, like banking, consulting, or Silicon Valley computing.  Otherwise it's not that important.

[elisewin]

i second skyentist's list.

[PhDerp]

The only reason I MIGHT think about considering the Ivy prestige effect is if you were significantly interested in the potential of a non-academic position in a field in which Ivy prestige is important, like banking, consulting, or Silicon Valley computing.  Otherwise it's not that important.

I never heard of this before! That's crazy, I hadn't realized. (Will do my own Googling in addition, of course)

[perpetuavix]

I have been told that if you're going to academics, having an education from an ivy looks good on CV and future funding opportunities. Any truth to that? 

Yes. Hiring committees, especially at smaller schools, look very favorably on Ivy degrees, because people who don't know anything about your field (ie. higher education administrators) are impressed by the prestige. That doesn't mean you couldn't get an academic job without an Ivy degree, but it might make it easier in some places. 

[psunak99]

Thank you everyone for all your great advice. I had a chat with both school's program directors and they were both able to bend the program to make it more favorable for my circumstances (already have masters and 2 years of research in my field, therefore do not need many of their courses). Following the wise advice in this thread, i have stopped looking at Ivy vs. Non-Ivy and am now comparing their programs and people. Following skyentist's advice, here are my variables:

 

I'd be really tempted to go for the one with the better stipend. But, if the two different programs have comparable rank, I'm not sure the Ivy prestige will mean much since the non-Ivy will also have a great deal. This is especially true if the Ivy in question isn't Harvard or Yale (or if it's the one which is regularly confused with a certain state university in Pennsylvania).

No it is not harvard or yale or MIT. 

 

How I would choose between two equally ranked programs:

 

1. Research/POI interest -> Interest is mainly translational biology/ cancer genetics. Both programs have affiliation with hospitals and therefore have people working on these. However, the Ivy has about 200 faculty since it combines 2 institutions in their program. The non-ivy has limited number of people ( maybe about 30). 

2. Money -> Ivy has better stipend (even tho the cost of living is about the same). 

3. City -> Both cities. NY vs. Boston. Don't mind either.

4. Climate (weather and at the school) -> Again, both are fine. 

5. Ease of returning home (for holidays dont want to spend $400 each time) -> $20 from both cities. However, NY (Ivy) is a lot easier and much less time. 

6. Family -> live closer to NY than Boston. Important for me. 

7. Coursework -> Ivy has more structured coursework but less access to basic courses. Non-ivy has access to many courses even the basic ones, which means i can have better foundation. 

 

If you (referring to anyone reading this ) were to make this decision, what would you choose? Are there any other factors? 

 

The non-ivy league has a program which is a little bit better for my personal situation and i feel i would learn a lot more there as a student.

Honestly, I think you have answered your own question with this line.  Go to the place that is going to be better for you as a student and a person.  (Also, close relationships with PIs doesn't automatically mean you will graduate faster.)

The Ivy League is an athletic conference, not a sacred list of the Most High Universities.  There are plenty of well-respected universities and programs that aren't in the Ivy League.  Having an education from a well-reputed program with good research, respected faculty and good placement rates looks good on your CV, but there are many non-Ivy institutions that fit that bill.  (And honestly, in some fields, the Ivies are crap wrt research.)

You can get an external fellowship from anywhere, since those are more about you than the institution.  The institution matters but I'm assuming we're comparing a school like Columbia with a school like UIUC or Penn State here.  Those schools have tremendous assets, lots of resources, great funding, etc.

The only reason I MIGHT think about considering the Ivy prestige effect is if you were significantly interested in the potential of a non-academic position in a field in which Ivy prestige is important, like banking, consulting, or Silicon Valley computing.  Otherwise it's not that important.

 

My Field is still very young and many faculty in my current job are actually from Ivy. Therefore, it lead me to believe that if i have an opportunity to go to an Ivy, It might make it easier to get a better job down the road. Looking at your advice and the advice in this thread, it looks like that may not matter as much. 

[SciencePerson101]

If it is not the big 3: Harvard, Yale, Princeton(stretching it a lot here because their grad programs are inferior to H and Y) then don't even think about Ivy prestige because I never knew Brown, Cornell, UPenn, Columbia are Ivy until some months ago.

Edited March 21, 2014 by SciencePerson101