Why we're meant to go to grad school

[hnotis]

There are so many blogs and articles out there right now with reasons why people shouldn't consider grad school.  While there are a lot of valid reasons not to go, I would much rather find out why each of you want to go.  And not the obvious reasons like you want to be a professor or you have a burning research question.  I'm talking about the little every day thoughts that pop in to your mind and remind you why you're doing what you're doing. 

 

I'll start:

 

I know I'm meant to go to grad schools because...

 

...I get more excited when I come up with a killer thesis statement than most people do when their favorite sports team wins.

 

...I'm never satisfied just learning how something works.  I want to know why it works and how we can change and manipulate this why.

 

...I love the idea of eventually having a cozy little office with papers and books scattered everywhere.

 

 

 

What about you guys?

[Academicat]

I'm going to grad school because I have a fundamental intellectual curiosity and desire to be part of the scholarly conversation, and I know a PhD will both help me become part of the discourse and will situate me to land a job that actually PAYS me to do so.

 

The PhD will also give me the clout necessary to go to bat for programs that are important for students' development as writers, programs which have historically been marginalized because it's difficult (but not impossible) to assess their benefit. The PhD is necessary for gravitas.

 

I'm going to grad school because I've been watching my field (Comp/Rhet) grow over the past ten years, and I've noticed that job postings are more and more requiring PhDs, so if I want to continue to do the work in writing centers that I've been doing without limiting my options, I need a terminal degree.

 

In short, my reasons for going to grad school are not because I love books or writing (though I do), or because I wax poetic about wearing a tweed jacket with elbow patches and discussing rhetoric all day (though tweed is cool), but because I care about people and ensuring they have the tools to be the most awesome versions of themselves as possible. I am getting a PhD because the education allows me the opportunity to stretch and grow in new and challenging ways that will let me continue doing the work I love to do with writing centers and the writers who come through their doors.

[TakeruK]

Like Academicat, I chose to go to grad school because I feel that a PhD is necessary for what I want to do / achieve in my future career. I don't know exactly what will happen after I graduate but I will be apply for jobs in all career paths that interest me! Like many others, I have noticed more and more of the jobs that I want requiring PhDs (or desiring PhDs) so I feel that the time and energy put into a PhD is a good investment.

 

Ultimately, my career goals, in order of decreasing importance are:

 

1. Being valued for my skills and ability to think rather than my physical labour

=2. Work that allows me to impact people in some small way (whether it's teaching, mentoring, or even just collaborating with others)

=2. Using my analytical skills and experience to solve problems

4. Ability to travel as part of my work!

 

*(= indicates a tie I guess)

 

If it really came down to it, I would have career satisfaction with just #1 fulfilled. Currently, grad school fulfills all 4 of these desires and will set me up for future career paths that will continue to meet all of my career goals! #4 is more of a "wish"/"dream" though, and one of the reasons I would prefer academic work over working in "industry". However, one of the major reasons I chose to work in Astronomy was because of all the great travel opportunities! 

[VulpesZerda]

Hm...I honestly think that if I didn't go to grad school to research my topic of interest, and instead took some unrelated career path, I would probably still spend free time reading books and articles on the topic (I wouldn't write papers or anything, let's be realistic) because it's truly my passion. Might as well try to get paid to do something I'm that passionate about!

 

I know that my topic of interest is a complex problem that will never be solved completely, but knowing that I could actively contribute to efforts as a career is perfect for me. My research interests are also applied, so it would feel good to "help".

 

Also, I would never be happy in a career that didn't ask me to solve problems. In psychology we call this a "need for cognition", and I assume essentially everyone in these forums has a high need for cognition.

Edited July 1, 2014 by VulpesZerda

[reinhard]

Am I the only person who is going to graduate school to learn...?

[PeterH]

For me, grad school is just the most logical choice. 

 

I see Nature as the essence of beauty, and I want to understand it at the most fundamental level possible. Thus far, I've been unable to think of anything that would satisfy that desire, short of a commitment to academia. The most obvious and functional route to get there is, of course, graduate school.

 

I suppose at the same time, I also find it important to have higher degrees for the same reason Academicat mentioned -- namely that it has an associated legitimacy. Not just for working in the field, but for more general applications as well. I, for one, would very much like to be able to pass my understanding on to others, and formal degrees would be a great asset in that endeavour. 

 

 

... I'm talking about the little every day thoughts that pop in to your mind and remind you why you're doing what you're doing. ...

 

 

To your particular query though... If I haven't done so already, this is the point where I'll sound stupid sappy, but it's the honest truth. 

 

When I see something particularly pleasing in nature (like a river, or hills, or other landscapes), more often than not, it makes me think of how amazing it is that the laws this scenery obeys are the same laws that stars, and galaxies, and the universe itself obeys. A billiard ball and a galaxy cluster just go about their daily businesses according to the same set of rules... To a lesser extent, those thoughts also pop into my head for still more mundane events in daily life. As far as I'm concerned, there is little I want to know more than what kind of rules could possibly describe such a diverse and remarkable world. 

 

Anyhoo, that's a great question, I'm glad you asked. I'm enjoying the other comments.

[Academicat]

Am I the only person who is going to graduate school to learn...?

 

I think you'll find that most of our reasons involve learning, but aren't solely about learning. Only the very privileged and wealthy can afford to go to graduate school purely for the pursuit of knowledge without considering the practical implications of the decision. We gotta eat, dude, and this far into the game, we can't afford to be naive.

[RunnerGrad]

Why grad school?  My reasons may be a little different, since I'm entering a program that is both professional and research-oriented, and includes the dietetic internship required to become a registered dietitian.

 

I love learning.  I have two bachelor's degrees, and while I was working full-time between my two degrees, I continued to take university courses part-time (one course per semester, via distance education), because I enjoy university-level learning.

 

Looking at things from a more practical perspective, most of the jobs in my area of interest (public health and community nutrition) require a master's degree.

 

Additionally, the master's degree I'm pursuing perfectly matches my interests in nutrition/dietetics.  I could have just completed a dietetic internship in order to become a registered dietitian (I was accepted to one of the Dietitians of Canada stand-alone internships) but then I would have to do a lot of clinical dietetics, as well as a foodservice placement, and those areas of dietetic practice do not interest me.  I still have to complete some clinical and foodservice placements as part of my master's program (in order to meet the competencies required for an entry-level registered dietitian), but they are far shorter than they would be in a traditional internship or in any of the other combined master's-dietetic internship programs that are available.  So I can focus on the area of dietetic practice that interests me the most:  public health and community nutrition.  Additionally, my program will allow me to participate in research and complete a major research paper.  This will allow me to pursue a PhD eventually, should I decide to do so.

 

Basically, I love learning.  I enjoy research.  I'll be pursuing a program that perfectly matches my interests.  Most of the jobs I'm interested in require a master's degree.  That, in a nutshell, is why I'm going to grad school.

[Roll Right]

I'm going to graduate school because I want to contribute to the critique of capitalism in the current global era. That may sound silly, but its the main reason.

I'm also interested in religion under capitalism, with a particular interest in religious experiences. I would not have the opportunity to work on these things outside of the university.

I am also avoiding the corporate world by attending graduate school, although universities are beginning behaving as corporations..

Edited July 2, 2014 by Roll Right

[Guest WannabeProblemSolver]

I went to grad school mostly for the learning. I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do after college, but knew I didn't want to follow the paths most of my friends were following into the major capitalist type employers. Then, when I was working on my MA, the recession hit and there weren't a lot of jobs available. So, then I did a PhD. I don't know that any of that is about being meant to go to grad school but it is what it is.

[juilletmercredi]

I don't have little reasons like that, because frankly (and this may be an unpopular opinion less unpopular than I thought, apparently) I don't think those are good reasons by themselves for graduate school.

I take an entirely practical approach to deciding on graduate school.  I love the idea of having an office, but many professionals have offices with bookcases (and I can also make myself one at home).  I can learn about why things work using books and taking non-degree classes or joining discussion groups.  I love to write and that will always be a part of me; no matter what it is I do in life, I will always be more thrilled by a well-written line (mine or someone else's) than a sports win.  But I don't need graduate school/a PhD to do any of those things.

Grad school is very expensive, both in money (especially unfunded MA programs) and time (5-7+ years for a PhD, even if funded).  In the former case, that's a lot of debt to take on.  In the latter case, you could spend those 5-7 years getting work experience and investing for retirement.  So my opinion on graduate school is "go is if you need the degree to do the career you want to do."  I went to get a PhD not only because I love research, but because I want to do it as a living - and when I looked at jobs that interested me, the ones that made me most excited all required a PhD.

[themmases]

I don't know if I'm really "meant" to go to grad school or not. I once thought I was-- in history-- and it was a huge change to my self-image when I decided to leave for work. It was exciting, and kind of a relief, to work in medicine and find that I just enjoy research methods regardless of the field. Also, my interest when I was in history was in the reactions of educated people to poverty. It bothered me a lot to think that, as a best-case scenario, I could end up working for a university that wasn't a positive part of its community or even was worsening inequality, which I believed was true of my university. Working in medicine, with underserved populations, pretty much resolved that conflict for me.

 

I love my work right now, coordinating medical research and learning to do whatever needs to be done to make the study work. What I don't love is what i see as the gender and age discrimination that causes people to treat me (a 27-year-old woman with seven years of experience in this field) as an intern or undergrad research assistant. This isn't really a knock on the people I work with-- from what I've seen, the discrimination seems to be baked into the career track. Hospitals largely see it as OK to treat us as secretaries who happen to do IRB paperwork, and no matter what a person on this track does, it is taken as proof that a research coordinator could and should do it-- never that respect or authority should accrue to that coordinator. So I'm leaving.

 

I chose epi because I'd like to add more quantitative skills to my largely self-taught skills in making research work. I chose grad school rather than a new job because I love the field, want to stay in non-profits and research, and want to move away from being seen as a bright young person that others are mentoring rather than as a professional whose insights are essential to the project. So I could have chosen something different, I just don't want to.

[TakeruK]

Am I the only person who is going to graduate school to learn...?

 

When I see something particularly pleasing in nature (like a river, or hills, or other landscapes), more often than not, it makes me think of how amazing it is that the laws this scenery obeys are the same laws that stars, and galaxies, and the universe itself obeys. A billiard ball and a galaxy cluster just go about their daily businesses according to the same set of rules... To a lesser extent, those thoughts also pop into my head for still more mundane events in daily life. As far as I'm concerned, there is little I want to know more than what kind of rules could possibly describe such a diverse and remarkable world. 

 

These reasons are why I am passionate about physics/astronomy, i.e. my field of work. It's the reason why I chose to do my undergraduate major in these topics! But I think, with an undergrad degree in Physics, I can do all of the additional learning I want about these fields without going to grad school. 

 

These reasons (wanting to learn in general and wanting to explore my interests in Physics/science) are big motivators that help keep me interested in my work as a graduate student but I didn't sign up for grad school solely to learn more. My main career goal is to be able to think about interesting problems, and scientific inquiry is definitely interesting to me, but that's not the only type of interesting problem available. This type of inquiry is at the very top of the Maslow hierarchy of needs, and I am much more interested in finding a career that allows me to feed my family before finding one that allows me to explore every wonder (I'll explore my wonder/curiosity in my free time though).

[hnotis]

Just to clarify, I have many more reasons for wanting to pursue grad school other than what I additionally stated that have much more bearing on my choice.  Yes, I want to research.  Yes, I want to make a difference and contribute significantly in my field.  Yes, I want to pursue applied communication and activism to accomplish my moral obligations I feel I have to this world.  Yes, I have goals that could not be accomplished outside of researching at a university and continuing to work at the university level as professor and researcher.  But I'm having fun reading about the less crucial reasons that people have.  That's where the beauty is, in my opinion.

[bsharpe269]

I have tried a variety of jobs and I only feel fulfilled, as in in love with my life and a fully satisfied person, when I am working in research. During My first week of undergrad I had to go to one of those orientations where they talk about how important your GPA is blah blah. A lady got up and talked about undergrad research and how we should consider it. At that point I didn't even know what I would major in or if I wanted to go to grad school but I swear I had one of those love at first site moments. I know that sounds goofy but I just knew I had to do it! I emailed the lady who spoke repeatedly (like 3 times) asking how to join a lab. She finally connected me with a professor in bioengineering and I for the rest of my undergrad career, I did at least 20 hours a week of research. I'm working on my MS now and will be applying to phd programs this fall. As part of my MS, I have been involved with research since 2 weeks into my first semester.

I have a field I love but honestly, I would probably be happy doing research in any hard science field. I wish I could pin point what I love about it but I have no freakin idea. I just know I want my career to be in academic research!

[reinhard]

I think you'll find that most of our reasons involve learning, but aren't solely about learning. Only the very privileged and wealthy can afford to go to graduate school purely for the pursuit of knowledge without considering the practical implications of the decision. We gotta eat, dude, and this far into the game, we can't afford to be naive.

Okay that is true.

 

On more topic, I think rationally speaking my field can't do much without a Ph.D, but that is probably true everyone else in the sciences.

[victorydance]

I think you'll find that most of our reasons involve learning, but aren't solely about learning. Only the very privileged and wealthy can afford to go to graduate school purely for the pursuit of knowledge without considering the practical implications of the decision. We gotta eat, dude, and this far into the game, we can't afford to be naive.

 

How is this in any way remotely true?

 

What practical implications are these? That I miss 5-7 years of earning capacity/experience that I do not intrinsically care about anyways?  

[Academicat]

How is this in any way remotely true?

 

What practical implications are these? That I miss 5-7 years of earning capacity/experience that I do not intrinsically care about anyways?  

 

Let me be more plain. I am a first generation college student who comes from a blue collar family, and most of the people in my immediate and extended family are scraping together enough to get by. They didn't put me through college. I worked/loaned my way through college. Every illness, every car repair, and every unexpected expense is a Big Deal when you're living below the poverty line, and doubly so when most of your family is also living below the poverty line. Luckily, I planned carefully and had good mentors, so when I finished my MA, I was able to secure a full time position, pay off the loans, and help my family out. For you, that 5-7 years of earning capacity might not mean anything, but for me and my family, money matters. Money only doesn't matter when you've always had enough.

[victorydance]

And assumptions don't matter when you are an anonymous poster on the internet.

 

I am a first generation high school graduate and put myself through my undergraduate myself as well. Do you honestly think you are the only grad student to come from a low SES family?

 

The point is that if you play your cards right, grad school doesn't cost anything. In fact, if you really play your cards right, you can study at grad school while making a decent salary. 

 

The reason I don't care about money is because it is the lifestyle I choose to live. Everything I own can be fit into my backpack and I live in developing countries when I am not studying. I don't care about making money, ergo, going to grad school isn't as 'practical' for me. It allows me to study what I love while continuing to do fieldwork and research on the countries I am interested in. 

 

Why would I care about getting an engineering degree or a finance degree and getting a cush job when money/security/comfort don't and probably will never matter to me?

 

The assumption that only rich kids can go to grad school for the pursuit of knowledge is asinine. If you want it bad enough, any obstacle can be overcome. Doesn't mean a lot of people don't get an opportunity because of X disadvantage, but that hardly makes it a rule.

[TakeruK]

And assumptions don't matter when you are an anonymous poster on the internet.

 

I am a first generation high school graduate and put myself through my undergraduate myself as well. Do you honestly think you are the only grad student to come from a low SES family?

 

The point is that if you play your cards right, grad school doesn't cost anything. In fact, if you really play your cards right, you can study at grad school while making a decent salary. 

 

The reason I don't care about money is because it is the lifestyle I choose to live. Everything I own can be fit into my backpack and I live in developing countries when I am not studying. I don't care about making money, ergo, going to grad school isn't as 'practical' for me. It allows me to study what I love while continuing to do fieldwork and research on the countries I am interested in. 

 

Why would I care about getting an engineering degree or a finance degree and getting a cush job when money/security/comfort don't and probably will never matter to me?

 

The assumption that only rich kids can go to grad school for the pursuit of knowledge is asinine. If you want it bad enough, any obstacle can be overcome. Doesn't mean a lot of people don't get an opportunity because of X disadvantage, but that hardly makes it a rule.

 

I think what you say and what academicat say are both valid points of view. 

 

You make a good argument why grad school (and the earning potential lost while in grad school) doesn't matter for you personally. Academicat makes a good point about why it does matter for them personally. 

 

I don't think Academicat is saying everyone needs to choose their values, but I feel that your posts do imply that "if someone from a poor family wants to go to school for the sake of going to school, they should be able to make the choices I made and be okay". But this will only work if they have the same values as you! On the other hand, someone from a well-off family would not have to make the same choices as you did in order to go to school for the sake of school. I don't think this is fair, and in my opinion, academia should seek to create a PhD positions that pay enough so that someone who needs a job that pays the bills would be able to. There is no sense in reserving academic positions only for those that 1) either don't need to worry about money because they have lots, or 2) don't worry about money because their lifestyle choices do not require money.

 

I would not be comfortable living the way you do but I don't judge you for your choices and I hope you don't judge my need for comforts and possessions either. I am glad that you are able to find a way to make grad school work for you but just because it works for you, it doesn't mean that it is working for everyone. In my ideal world, academia would be accessible to everyone, no matter their socioeconomic background and also pay enough to compensate for their skills (and hey, if the graduate student happens to not worry about money, then that's great, they can save it for later or donate it to charity or science or whatever!).

[victorydance]

 

I don't think Academicat is saying everyone needs to choose their values, but I feel that your posts do imply that "if someone from a poor family wants to go to school for the sake of going to school, they should be able to make the choices I made and be okay". But this will only work if they have the same values as you! 

 

I didn't mean to imply that, I was just sharing my experience on how someone from a low SES family can make it work. My route is not the only route, just one of the many.

 

 

On the other hand, someone from a well-off family would not have to make the same choices as you did in order to go to school for the sake of school. I don't think this is fair, and in my opinion, academia should seek to create a PhD positions that pay enough so that someone who needs a job that pays the bills would be able to. There is no sense in reserving academic positions only for those that 1) either don't need to worry about money because they have lots, or 2) don't worry about money because their lifestyle choices do not require money.

 

But that's the way our society works. Do people from wealthy families have more opportunities than people from poorer families? Yes, indeed this is true. But you can't just slice a portion of that and say there is something wrong with X. What I mean is that there are barriers to entry in the academic world, just like in any occupation or endeavour, but that doesn't necessary mean there is something inherently wrong with academia. 

 

That's like saying "you can only be an investment banker on wall street if you come from a rich family." Or "I wish wall street was more open to people from lower SES upbringings."

 

The simple fact of most high level industries these days is that to make it into that upper echelon is that you need to come from the best schools and have the best training possible. This is a barrier that makes it harder for people from low SES but it is not a barrier that is impossible to overcome. Can you blame academia for wanting the people who went through the best schools, had the best advisers, and showed that they can go through those hoops? I don't. 

 

The thing is, is that I do think Ph.D. students can get a pretty good deal. Like I said before, if you play your cards right you can get a salary of 20-30K a year (or more), pay no tuition, and get access to countless opportunities. I think that is a pretty good deal. 

 

 

 

I would not be comfortable living the way you do but I don't judge you for your choices and I hope you don't judge my need for comforts and possessions either. I am glad that you are able to find a way to make grad school work for you but just because it works for you, it doesn't mean that it is working for everyone. In my ideal world, academia would be accessible to everyone, no matter their socioeconomic background and also pay enough to compensate for their skills (and hey, if the graduate student happens to not worry about money, then that's great, they can save it for later or donate it to charity or science or whatever!).

 

I am not going to judge you.

 

The problem, I think, is that people spend a lot more time 'wanting and doing' rather than 'preparing.' This culture of people going straight to college from high school is incredibly detrimental to their prospects. This culture of going into debt for education is the same way. The culture of needing to start a family as soon as possible is incredibly detrimental to their economic standing and mobility. This culture of needing to own a house or living space is another detriment.

 

If people slowed down a little bit and stopped treating life like such a rat race, a lot of these barriers wouldn't be so prolific.

 

For example, barriers for low SES people are real. But a lot of barriers to academia are self constructed (for low SES or not). People who start families very young and buy a house have constructed a barrier for themselves (ie, financial commitments, lack of mobility). People who went from high school straight to college who couldn't afford it have constructed a barrier (not ready/sure about their passion of study/mature enough, possibility of going into debt). 

 

It just so happens that low SES people are more likely to do both of those things than people of higher wealth, but they are nonetheless self constructed.

 

-----

 

What I am trying to say, is that if you step back, academia is actually quite accessible. The only real major hurdle is getting good grades, doing well, and getting research experience during your undergrad. If you have that, you have a chance to get into any top school and get a stipend to study there. Lots of people, no matter where they come from economically, are able to do the above.

 

On the other hand, society drills us to act certain ways or want certain things that actually impede your ability to get there. I think THAT is the mistress and cruelness of society, not whether you hit the lottery and came from X upbringing.

[Academicat]

 

I think what you say and what academicat say are both valid points of view. 

 

You make a good argument why grad school (and the earning potential lost while in grad school) doesn't matter for you personally. Academicat makes a good point about why it does matter for them personally. 

 

I don't think Academicat is saying everyone needs to choose their values, but I feel that your posts do imply that "if someone from a poor family wants to go to school for the sake of going to school, they should be able to make the choices I made and be okay". But this will only work if they have the same values as you! On the other hand, someone from a well-off family would not have to make the same choices as you did in order to go to school for the sake of school. I don't think this is fair, and in my opinion, academia should seek to create a PhD positions that pay enough so that someone who needs a job that pays the bills would be able to. There is no sense in reserving academic positions only for those that 1) either don't need to worry about money because they have lots, or 2) don't worry about money because their lifestyle choices do not require money.

 

I would not be comfortable living the way you do but I don't judge you for your choices and I hope you don't judge my need for comforts and possessions either. I am glad that you are able to find a way to make grad school work for you but just because it works for you, it doesn't mean that it is working for everyone. In my ideal world, academia would be accessible to everyone, no matter their socioeconomic background and also pay enough to compensate for their skills (and hey, if the graduate student happens to not worry about money, then that's great, they can save it for later or donate it to charity or science or whatever!).

 

Thanks for the elaboration, TakerUK. You hit the essense of what I was trying to say on the nose - someone who lives a life free from obligation to others wouldn't have to consider the financial impact of the decision to go to grad school as carefully as someone whose life is tangled up with the lives of others, so I will modify my previous comment - people with wealth can afford the liberty of going to school purely for the joy of learning, but so can people free of obligations to other people.

 

Victory - my intention wasn't to dismiss your experience, and I apologize if it came off that way. It was just attempting to explain my own because you expressed confusion about it. In a nut shell, I just can't ignore that voice of obligation to family. I understand that not everyone has the same values as I do, as Takeruk pointed out. I'm just one voice in this conversation trying to listen and be heard.

[victorydance]

^ Fair enough and it is something I addressed in my last post. I do agree, that people who entangle themselves in family (not necessarily a good or bad thing in of itself), have another barrier of entry.

[Vene]

The point is that if you play your cards right, grad school doesn't cost anything. In fact, if you really play your cards right, you can study at grad school while making a decent salary. 

It is incredibly hard to find a program which funds you in excess of $30,000 (and those which do either are in very high cost of living cities or are programs where the grad students would otherwise get a very high salary) and I'm personally giving up at minimum $10,000/year extra income as well as promotions and such from a decent job. If I didn't think graduate school would further my career I wouldn't bother touching it. I left a job with a decent wage, benefits, coworkers I got along with, and one where I had actual authority to do graduate school.

You have to factor in opportunity cost, sure I will earn enough to survive, but it's still a cut and I am fully expecting to have to devote more time and energy into school than I did into my job.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Vene

[victorydance]

It is incredibly hard to find a program which funds you in excess of $30,000 (and those which do either are in very high cost of living cities or are programs where the grad students would otherwise get a very high salary) and I'm personally giving up at minimum $10,000/year extra income as well as promotions and such from a decent job. If I didn't think graduate school would further my career I wouldn't bother touching it. I left a job with a decent wage, benefits, coworkers I got along with, and one where I had actual authority to do graduate school.

You have to factor in opportunity cost, sure I will earn enough to survive, but it's still a cut and I am fully expecting to have to devote more time and energy into school than I did into my job.

 

Not really. Most top programs will pay anywhere between 15,000-30,000 stipend. That is only fellowship money, there are plenty of other sources of funding both internally and externally. Anything from awards, to grants, external scholarships, to government grants are available for any graduate student, as well as additional employment opportunities.

 

Opportunity cost doesn't really have anything to do with accessibility. It skews the cost-benefit ratio, but it doesn't make it any less accessible. Which is what I was discussing.