Any suggestions on being the only American in a lab?

[ss2player]

Hey y'all,

 

So I just started my second rotation, and it's very different from my first. That one was ~25 people, mostly post-docs and clinicians, so super translation-y and cool research. I got along with folks in the lab once I figured out everyone's role, and although my PI was hardly around, I did get to know a "sub-PI" assistant professor quite well.

 

This one is almost the mirror image: very available PI that I get along with smashing-ly, but her lab is 2 new post-docs and a tech, all of whom are Chinese. Based on what I've seen, they rarely socialize and when they do, it's in Mandarin. If I need to ask for something it's like pulling teeth and they don't acknowledge me unless I address them first. Basically, I don't feel super welcome. The research here is neat and I have great ideas for where to take a project (PI has told me so), but I know I would be almost entirely on my own if I were to do this. On the plus side, she just graduated a student whom had to leave his previous lab and start over; he was finished in 2 years! I'd love to be done so quickly.

 

Any thoughts on making the lab more interactive? Am I stuck being the outsider here? Should I seek socialization elsewhere and channel my energy into writing myself out of grad school? I can just imagine when classes are over how lonely I'd feel slaving away at a project with only my advisor to lean on. My previous labs had a lot of ping-pong science where we would bounce ideas off one another, but that doesn't seem to happen here (unless I pick up Mandarin?). 

 

Any and all thoughts welcome.

 

 

[Vene]

How long have you been in the second lab? It can sometimes take time to warm up to a new person, especially with a cultural barrier. But, ultimately, I can say that I wouldn't personally want to work in a lab where I don't feel welcome. I may not need to be buddies with the other people, but I'd like to be able to at least chat about things when I'm there. For now, I'd say just make the best of it, socialize elsewhere and try to do good work. But, I could see this lab being one you decline to join, even if you get along very well with the PI.

[Eigen]

I've had this experience a few times in my group as people have come and gone- for a couple of years I was the only non-chinese person out of 8 in my lab. 

 

On the one hand, it meant that I was surrounded by people talking a language I didn't understand, and they had no interest in helping me learn it at all. 

 

On the other hand, I ended up spending a lot more time with my PI, and we had a much better relationship for it. 

 

I also became the defecto group editor, which gave me quite a bit of experience in working on manuscripts. 

 

As some people graduated and we got new students, it got a bit more balanced- I was still the only american student, but it wasn't just Chinese graduate students, so there wasn't a default lab language, which made it a lot more manageable. 

 

I also now have some pretty good friends spread around the world, and standing offers to visit China whenever I want, which is nice. My Mandarin still sucks though, sadly. I still can't get any of them to correct my pronunciation- they tell me whatever I say is "fine". 

 

I ended up making a lot more friends in other groups and other departments early on too, which also helped down the road- now I have people to collaborate with and learn from in a number of different related labs and disciplines, and the access to other people's instruments and such is amazing. 

[rising_star]

Oh man, there was a really great conversation about this exact issue last year. Eigen, do you remember it? OP, if you can find it, there are definitely some suggestions that have been made about how to manage a situation like yours. Good luck!

[ss2player]

I appreciate the advice/solidarity guys, it means a lot! 

 

So I ended up switching my rotation to another lab. It was one I had been looking at before, and they recently published a Nature paper dealing with a field I want to get involved in! The lab has folks from India, Vietnam, China, Italy, Mexico, and the US, so it feels much more balanced and we all speak English to one another. 

 

I think the lesson I've learned is trust your gut...if you feel you'd be unhappy in a lab after only a few days, you're probably right!

[juilletmercredi]

I just wanted to note (for posterity) that I don't think being the only American in the lab is the problem...it's the vibe of the lab.  Being the only American doesn't matter if the students of the other nationalities are willing to communicate with you in the language you share and do science with you.  The problem seemed to be not that they were Chinese, but that for whatever reason they were uncommunicative (or exclusionary in the little communication they did have) and did not want to collaborate in the way that you wanted or expected.

 

I'm glad you're happier in a new rotation, though!

[ss2player]

I just wanted to note (for posterity) that I don't think being the only American in the lab is the problem...it's the vibe of the lab.  Being the only American doesn't matter if the students of the other nationalities are willing to communicate with you in the language you share and do science with you.  The problem seemed to be not that they were Chinese, but that for whatever reason they were uncommunicative (or exclusionary in the little communication they did have) and did not want to collaborate in the way that you wanted or expected.

 

I'm glad you're happier in a new rotation, though!

 

Good point, julliet! I could just have easily encountered an exclusionary attitude among native English speakers as well, so I can't pin it primarily on the language barrier. Seems like they had their little clique set and didn't want to train or interact with anyone really, which is a pretty bad sign for a student.

 

New lab is SO MUCH BETTER, just finished my first week. The senior student I'm paired with was away this week; he's interviewing for postdocs/jobs and is defending in the next couple months...the idea being that I would continue his work and take his spot if I join the lab. Despite this, I've been shadowing other folks and getting the lay of the land so we can jump into the meat of things from next week on to the end of my rotation.

[St Andrews Lynx]

Any thoughts on making the lab more interactive? Am I stuck being the outsider here? Should I seek socialization elsewhere and channel my energy into writing myself out of grad school? I can just imagine when classes are over how lonely I'd feel slaving away at a project with only my advisor to lean on. My previous labs had a lot of ping-pong science where we would bounce ideas off one another, but that doesn't seem to happen here (unless I pick up Mandarin?). 

 

Any and all thoughts welcome.

 

As a broad generalisation, Americans are a lot more extroverted than Eastern cultures (and indeed a lot European ones!). Which usually means that if you started hanging out with a group of Americans, it would take a lot less time for them to open up to you and view you as "a friend" than with an equivalent group of Chinese. It might be that difference which made your 2nd rotation lab seem colder, rather than deliberate cliqueness. 

 

When entering a "quiet lab", you probably aren't going to change the culture overnight. It is best to start off quieter and gradually try to engage the other group members in shorter conversation (showing interest in their background & interests is a good way to draw out people). As an introvert, a wall of verbal information from somebody I'd just met isn't going to make me chatty - it's going to freak me out! Being helpful, considerate and showing that you like your colleagues goes a long way towards eroding an "us vs. them" mentality. 

 

From my own personal experience, being the only American/Westerner in a lab isn't a deal-breaker. What mattered the most is how your work ethics match up (do you prefer a strict 9-5, or are you the sort of person who is cool with rolling in somewhen in the afternoon and doing research until 2am on a Sunday?), the level of silence & noise you need to do your work, and general personality traits (do you like serious conversation or sports banter? do you have a sense of humour?). These things are all fairly independent of nationality.

[ss2player]

As a broad generalisation, Americans are a lot more extroverted than Eastern cultures (and indeed a lot of European ones!). Which usually means that if you started hanging out with a group of Americans, it would take a lot less time for them to open up to you and view you as "a friend" than with an equivalent group of Chinese. It might be that difference which made your 2nd rotation lab seem colder, rather than deliberate cliqueness. 

 

When entering a "quiet lab", you probably aren't going to change the culture overnight. It is best to start off quieter and gradually try to engage the other group members in shorter conversation (showing interest in their background & interests is a good way to draw out people). As an introvert, a wall of verbal information from somebody I'd just met isn't going to make me chatty - it's going to freak me out! Being helpful, considerate and showing that you like your colleagues goes a long way towards eroding an "us vs. them" mentality. 

 

From my own personal experience, being the only American/Westerner in a lab isn't a deal-breaker. What mattered the most is how your work ethics match up (do you prefer a strict 9-5, or are you the sort of person who is cool with rolling in somewhen in the afternoon and doing research until 2am on a Sunday?), the level of silence & noise you need to do your work, and general personality traits (do you like serious conversation or sports banter? do you have a sense of humour?). These things are all fairly independent of nationality.

 

Great tips, thank you! It's something I'll have to be more aware of going forward, as post-PhD I may be forced into situations where I HAVE to work with a set of people and there's no way around it, especially if I go into a managerial role.

 

I'm naturally very extroverted and I often forget that most people in this field (again, generalizing) are not so outgoing. I like a "noisy" lab as it helps energize me, as well as lots of joking to keep the mood light while we wait on our experiments/do menial analysis. New lab has lots of this so I feel comfortable, while the old one seemed much more like "show up, do your work, go home, talk only if necessary" which was a turn-off. The biggest issue was they didn't try to help train me; I'm fairly independent but if it's a struggle to just get basic supplies from you, it's not going to be a good environment for a PhD student.