I have a choppy history (Average 1st u/g, a few fails & an abandoned degree, very good 2 u/g). How to best present myself?

[allylewy]

Hey Guys

 

So after a lot of tears and realising that no matter what I do or how much I want to, I can't change the past and be that 'perfect' student I wish I was. 

 

I first went to University right after high school and didn't do so well, my GPA was only a 2.15. I was 18, lazy, depressed and still quite burned out from high school. Also in my third year was involved in a serious car crash and had 3 operations on my leg. Anyway, I graduated, couldn't get a job because recessions and bad grades don't go well together especially when you did an arts degree. I started a second degree about 18mo later, but failed the first semester as my mother passed away after the withdrawal date and I wasn't told until it was too late that I could have made a case to have it scrapped from the record, so sadly, it sits on the transcripts because the University refuses to make an exception. 

Three years after that, I went back to Uni at 26.5 with my shit together am now about to graduate in Politics and Journalism with a German almost-major (did all the language units, just didn't do the electives like 'german literature' to get the major) and have a 3.65GPA with excellent recommendations from my professors.

Stupidly though, I accepted 2 exemptions for intro courses at the new school and now can't hide the old degree. I didn't realise it would show as 'transferred credit'. Can't get it rescinded. I now have to own up to the old degree. I wanted to hide it . 

Do i have any shot at any grad school (or employers later on) with such a weird record? I think I've proven myself to be grown up and have gotten over the depression/personal issues/lack of motivation but I'm worried that they won't care and will just see the bad record and laugh me away even though this was all a few years ago now. How can I best present myself? Do Unis even care about 'life experience' and 'maturity' and 'proving yourself' or is that just crap people say to make people like me feel better?

(FWIW: I have advanced German and very good intermediate Spanish and speak Latvian fluently.)

I'm starting to feel scared that my mistakes from age 18-25 have ruined my life...

 

 

[random_grad]

First things first: Hiding is never a good idea. If it comes up that you did not submit all your transcripts from the past, it's an academic offense.

 

Now, to answer your question, you should not worry so much about your early academic years. It happens all the time and schools only care about the final years. An acquaintance of mine had a very mediocre start in her philosophy degree but did well in the 2 final years (so, btw, the overall GPA wasn't that high) but still got into top schools for her MA. Chances are, nobody will even look at the old records. Ask your professors whether they feel you should mention personal difficulties in your SoP at all (and, of course, show them the transcripts so that they know your full situation). imo you shouldn't unless the school asks you to (some have extra questions in the online application directed at failing etc.). If the school you're applying to has a question like that, use it to your advantage and turn your response into an "overcoming adversities" blurb: succinct, frank, unashamed. Also be ready to talk in 30 sec about that during interviews. You are mature now, you know how to work hard, you came back and kept trying despite all odds.

[bsharpe269]

To start with, its definitely best that you don't hide the old degree. If you do this and people find out then it can get you in lots of trouble. Plus, I wouldn't want to start my graduate career based on dishonesty and hidden information.

 

Remember that the goal of the admissions committee isn't too look for perfect applicants... Its to look for people who will do well in their program and then continue to do well in their field, with the name of the university tied to them. So when the adcom looks are your records, those are the questions that they will be asking themselves. They care about 'life experience' and 'maturity' in the sense that they want mature students who will be successful. I think that you have proven that you got your crap together. I certainly don't think that anyone will laugh at your application. I think it can be hard to judge how successful someone will be when applying because the adcom is made of people who have their own biases as well. If you do well on the GRE and have relevant research or experience then I think you certainly have a shot at good schools.

 

I am not as extreme of a case but I had a uGPA in the low 3s, with the lowest of my grades actually being in classes relevant to field. I got my MS, worked hard, and proved myself like you did and got into top PhD programs. The average GPA of entering students to these programs is well above 3.5. I realize that my example isn't as extreme as what you went through but I still think it shows that you can overcome low or mediocre undergrad record. Let your application show how passionate you are and use your current records and experiences to show that you will be successful in your field.

[velua]

You can't hide it, you have to disclose all transcripts, but that doesn't mean you have to spend your whole SOP talking about your weaknesses. It sounds like you have a decent story to tell anyway. I'd recommend saying you were dealing with health issues or something vague instead of specifically mentioning depression. The fact is, you have turned things around and proved you can be a good student.

Also, maybe you need a slight attitude adjustment. "I wasn't told it was too late" is an irresponsible attitude to have.

[allylewy]

God, it just feels so unfair to have to include it all forever. At what point can people move on from difficult periods in their life

[-hermes-]

God, it just feels so unfair to have to include it all forever. At what point can people move on from difficult periods in their life

 

Think of it this way -- once you get into a graduate program, it'll be behind you. You can excel in the grad program and then that'll be what anyone cares about going forward. 

 

For now, focus on making the jump to graduate school. You need a succinct story that explains your initial failures and highlights the fact that it's in your past and you have done good work since then. 

[Crucial BBQ]

After participating in graduate school applications two years in a row, here is what I found out by contacting every program I had even a remote interest in:

 

1.  Some programs require every transcript from every college you have attended no matter what courses taken (underwater basketweaving) or for what reason (course was not related to or required by major/program/department/school/solar system), with no reason why they want those transcripts.

 

2.  Some schools "require" every transcript but say without saying that if you don't submit them the sky will not fall.  Their reason for wanting those transcripts was usually because the adcomms may see the course as relevant to the program; adcomms like to see students with a breadth of interests; or, the course may satisfy some unknown pre-rec to a future graduate level course. 

 

3.  If you did not indicate as having attended that school in your application the adcomms will not "know" to look for that transcript, and thus, it is not required.

 

4.  They only want transcripts from the institutions that you actually earned the degree from.  

 

My point; talk to the program directors and see what they say.  

[LauraV]

I have a screwy situation as well. My first BA was in Psych, and I got a 2.66 or 2.67 in the end and was taking over being burned out as a Sr. and drew my GPA down a lot the last two terms.

Now I've 2/3rds of a second degree, this time in Art, and I'm finding serious health issue conflicts and may end up abandoning it. The icky part again is I have been and 2 different schools pulling this education(retrain together), and one has s 3.67 GPA, and the other is still current and if flailing around 2.5, and I need to try to keep going and drag it up farther towards a 3.0 even if I give up and don't complete it.

 

*I have "6" transcripts to turn into the Grad school to apply. I have literally been to 3 community colleges and 3 universities. I'm hoping I can just turn in 4 of them to show: 1. Degree granting schools. 2. Art studies so I can compete with at least 44 credits towards a MA in Studio Art.

[fuzzylogician]

God, it just feels so unfair to have to include it all forever. At what point can people move on from difficult periods in their life

 

The further removed you are from the difficult period, and the more positive and more recent results you have to show, the less it's going to matter. Applicants who are older and have more recent life experience than just the BA are usually judged more on that than grades alone. There are ways of addressing these early difficulties in the SOP to make it clear that they do not reflect who you are now, to basically tell admissions committees that they do not need to worry about you dropping out or not being able to handle school, that you've grown and overcome those problems. Once you're in a graduate program, your undergrad grades basically become completely unimportant. If anything, your grad school grades become more relevant, but most of the time that doesn't matter either -- it's the research that counts.

[Mechanician2015]

God, it just feels so unfair to have to include it all forever. At what point can people move on from difficult periods in their life

I won't recommend that you buy THIS. But it is an example on how, once you have a PhD, you won't be willing to forget that period. You will be writing about how you overcame that period(or willing to do so).

[knp]

Check out the sub-3.0 acceptance thread. All is not lost! I feel like most people respect it when others grow past earlier difficulties and challenges.

[brown_eyed_girl]

On 5/8/2015 at 12:08 PM, LauraV said:

I have "6" transcripts to turn into the Grad school to apply. I have literally been to 3 community colleges and 3 universities. I'm hoping I can just turn in 4 of them to show: 1. Degree granting schools. 2. Art studies so I can compete with at least 44 credits towards a MA in Studio Art.

 

I also had six separate transcripts to submit when I applied for grad school. Some places I had just taken 1 class in a non-relevant field, but since they were college classes and the schools I applied to asked for all college transcripts, I was required to submit them. It was a huge pain (and expense) to track all of these transcripts down. Yes, maybe I could have gotten away with not submitting all of them... but why risk it? 

 

Of course it doesn't hurt to ask places you're applying whether they only want transcripts from places where you earned degrees or had relevant coursework, but I think most will want to see everything to get a full picture of the kind of student you are. The fact that you've made major improvements may actually work in your favor. A lot of times, nontraditional students bring a different perspective to things, add diversity to the classroom, and are very industrious because they are working to catch up and have learned from their mistakes. You want to go to a school that appreciates the experience you bring.

Edited May 13, 2015 by brown_eyed_girl