The Ph.D. Pay Gap

[TakeruK]

I think everything Eigen points out is very important. Although it's perhaps not something I would consider at point of application, because, as others pointed out, the information is hard to find online! I waited until I had offers and could visit and talk to graduate students to get the info. Then I put it all into a little spreadsheet to properly compare financial offers.

 

It's interesting to hear about programs that decrease pay after some period. In almost every program I've visited, your pay either stays constant or increases after you pass candidacy. In Canadian schools, it is usually the case that tuition for graduate students goes down by several thousand dollars (e.g. from $6000/year to $4000/year) so once you finish classes (e.g. candidacy), you see a pay raise equal to that difference. There was only one case where my pay went down after the first year, but that was only because the pay boost was either a "signing bonus" or a special external fellowship that only lasts one year. But (other than bonuses) the amount that the department and University contributed to my pay would always be the same or increasing with each year, at all schools I visited. 

[educdoc]

You're talking about stipends here, or the entire stipend + tuition + health insurance and other fees? That looks like my stipend is really, I mean really low.... That's why I need to work outside the university too, making studying so much more difficult. And I didn't discuss financial aspect with grad students before making my choice because I thought it will make me look like an extremely financing-oriented person. That's tough though, to try getting through the program while working (almost) full time too.

[Crafter]

Definitely ask current graduate students.

 

Our stipends aren't bad, but we pay ~$2k per year in student fees, and another ~$1800 if we chose to take the school insurance (or more if we have outside insurance). Some of it is also a difference in the administrative structure- we've talked to our administration about reducing fees, and they've said they'd rather focus on increasing stipends by a similar amount. Other schools I know find it easier to move money around in the budget to provide "benefits", and that's easier than coming up with the cash in payroll to increase stipends.

 

On the other hand, we have a huge amount of free software available through the University, and while laptops are hard to come by, grad students can pick up University desktops for offices- not state of the art, but very serviceable. 

 

One other thing that I've found to be really interesting is the length of funding provided by the school. We have some programs that only provide funding for the first 3 years of the program on admission. I also got some offers that had amazing dollar amounts, but only for the first 1-3 years, with lower pay than some of my initially lower offers following that period.

 

Maybe it depends on each department, because in my admission letter I was told that student fees and health insurance were covered by a scholarship (or was it covered by the fellowship? not sure which, but it is covered). So, apparently, I should not be expecting to pay any school fees out of pocket. I sure hope I will not find any surprise fee!!!

[Eigen]

Unless things have significantly changed in BMS (or there's a fellowship involved) that's not the base RA/TA package, for sure.

[bsharpe269]

i just finished the application process and the benefits offered varied a lot between schools. All of the stipends I was offered were within around 5k of each other. Many of the lower end offers didn't cover fees and health insurance, majorly widening the gap between offers. The school I ended up choosing gave me the 2nd best offer. They gave a competitive stipend in a cheap area to live and covered all fees and health costs. They also provide life insurance, lots of software, a small travel allowance, and some extras like free bus passes. All of this was detailed in my offer letter. The best offer i got included similar benefits but offered a bit extra in stipend and about twice the travel fund. I definitely received offers that didn't include any of these benefits though. I noticed that biophysics programs located within schools of medicine seem to pay higher stipends and provide more benefits than programs of similar ranking but located in schools of arts and science.

[Vene]

You're talking about stipends here, or the entire stipend + tuition + health insurance and other fees? That looks like my stipend is really, I mean really low.... That's why I need to work outside the university too, making studying so much more difficult. And I didn't discuss financial aspect with grad students before making my choice because I thought it will make me look like an extremely financing-oriented person. That's tough though, to try getting through the program while working (almost) full time too.

I was thinking the entire package. And I do think you should try and get as much information as possible before applying (including doing some legwork on cost of living). I think it's okay not to talk too much about the money prior to getting an acceptance, but once you have it absolutely ask for details. I don't know how everyone else does it, but I had the contact information of a couple of graduate students given to me for if I had questions.

 

And although I can say that I'd be happy to talk about the financial details during the interview stage with any prospectives, I can understand being hesitant at the time.

 

Unless things have significantly changed in BMS (or there's a fellowship involved) that's not the base RA/TA package, for sure.

All I can offer here is my program is that way. I don't pay fees or for my health insurance premiums (which is really damn nice). The downside is that our stipend is a little on the low side for this region of the country.

[BiochemMom]

As a comment on parenting in grad school:

Let's say a woman does every thing traditionally, by the book, and gets lucky and into grad school, post doc, and tenure track position on schedule without delays.

18 when graduating high school.

22 when graduating college.

27 when finishing PhD

30 when completing post doc

36-37 when eligible for tenure.

So at what point in a biological time period should a woman have a child? If our own peers don't think we should have a family, not even factoring in everyone in positions above us, why does it not scream to people loud and clear why the difference in the amount of women completing a PhD vs holding a tenured position is staggering?

This isn't even regarding a stipend or subsidy. This is just referencing the people who feel grad school isn't the time to have kids.

And that age is just assuming you get in first try, only do one post doc, etc. There are those of us who serve in the military prior to college (and in my case also have spouses in the military which caused it to take six years and five colleges to get my bachelors). I'm in my thirties starting graduate school (well PhD, I have an MS)--I already have one child and my husband and I will have another while I'm in school.

Thankfully, the school I'm attending has a large amount of parents and older students, and all of my rotation PIs are not only aware of my desire to have another after oral candidacy, are fully supportive of it. Hopefully if any of my peers feel the way as some of the posters here, they'll keep their mouths shut. Either way, it's no ones business but mine and my husband's when and if I have children.

Edited June 20, 2015 by BiochemMom

[Eigen]

All I can offer here is my program is that way. I don't pay fees or for my health insurance premiums (which is really damn nice). The downside is that our stipend is a little on the low side for this region of the country.

Yeah, we're at the same (different from you) school though.

[Crafter]

Unless things have significantly changed in BMS (or there's a fellowship involved) that's not the base RA/TA package, for sure.

 

My offer letter states that I have a scholarship and a fellowship that will cover tuition, health insurance, fees for the rec center, activities and other school fees. Maybe the fees come from the fellowship portion. Either way, I felt it is a really good offer.

 

I do think that schools should ALL include health insurance and school fees (specially school fees!) in their package.

 

I applied to a very prestigious school but I was almost wishing that would not be my only option at the end, because the stipend was about 22k a year and no school fees or health insurance. After paying all that and taxes, there was no way I could live in that city (which is not even a cheap city at all) on about 15K a year.

[Eigen]

Yeah, that's the fellowship. Definitely helps, a lot.

[educdoc]

I was thinking the entire package. And I do think you should try and get as much information as possible before applying (including doing some legwork on cost of living). I think it's okay not to talk too much about the money prior to getting an acceptance, but once you have it absolutely ask for details. I don't know how everyone else does it, but I had the contact information of a couple of graduate students given to me for if I had questions.

 

And although I can say that I'd be happy to talk about the financial details during the interview stage with any prospectives, I can understand being hesitant at the time.

 

All I can offer here is my program is that way. I don't pay fees or for my health insurance premiums (which is really damn nice). The downside is that our stipend is a little on the low side for this region of the country.

Too late, I'm already done with my first year. While they cover all tuition and health insurance, also all kind of other perks in campus (which I don't really use because I live off campus), the stipend is rather small, and I had to take a part time job off campus. Second year stipend is only a bit larger but still not enough for survival. I too met with grad students before but the financial details were not discussed. I felt like they were avoiding that kind of conversation.

Second offer I had was having a nicer stipend but the cost of living there is much higher. Tough choice.

[TakeruK]

I too met with grad students before but the financial details were not discussed. I felt like they were avoiding that kind of conversation.

Second offer I had was having a nicer stipend but the cost of living there is much higher. Tough choice.

 

Usually, people don't bring up money unless it is asked first. A very common question that I get from prospective students is "is the stipend enough?" because they hear things about how expensive the area is. I tell them the truth and I even give example numbers that reflect how much people are actually paying for things like rent etc. I am honest about how I feel about the money, whether it is enough to make me happy (I believe that money does "buy" happiness, to a certain extent). Sometimes if I sense that the prospective student is trying to ask the question in a "tactful" way, I might come out and just say it without further prompting. Sometimes I can see that they are relieved that they didn't have to be the one that brings it up.

 

While I'm happy to start the topic because I know it's really important and that I would like to know the same when I was a prospective student, ultimately, prospective students are the one responsible for their future and these direct questions (about fees, benefits, living expenses, insurance costs etc.) are the ones you have to ask. Don't ask vague general questions like "What's life here like?" or "Are you happy?" and expect to get these details (although maybe those are good opening lines to begin a deeper conversation). Be direct and ask about numbers! 

 

** Note: Although I wrote this with a quote from educdoc's post, I don't intend to direct this at you! Maybe you did ask all the questions directly and the grad students in your programs just didn't know or didn't give you a straight answer. It's not your fault! I'm just responding to the idea that sometimes prospective students don't get the information they're looking for when talking with current graduate students. I see this when I'm talking to students and I notice you mention it in your post, so I wrote this post to encourage future prospective students to plan ahead for their meetings with graduate students and be sure to ask the questions that will get you the answers you need!

[Eigen]

Personally, I always start the conversation about finances with new graduate students. 

 

I know a lot of them are too nervous to ask about it, so we talk about what the stipends are, and how able people are to able to live on it in the area. I feel like it's a very important consideration. 

[rising_star]

When I was still in grad school, I would definitely bring it up with new grad students if I could. I also brought up things like which advisors were probably too busy to take on more students and other related considerations for whether or not to attend our program. 

 

Bringing up money is definitely not easy. But, it's essential. It also doesn't ever necessarily get easier, I think you just get more comfortable doing it. I've spent most of my time working at state universities so I'm also used to salaries being public records. While TA/RA salaries weren't in this, it was also just something that grad students talked about around one another.

[MathCat]

I had two offers that offered more in the first year than in subsequent years. Both waived tuition and provided health insurance and guaranteed stipend for 5 years. The first year was higher because they guaranteed summer funding, and offered one year fellowships to reduce or remove the need to TA in the first year. One of the offers also had a "move in/signing bonus" that would be paid out before the start of term. After the first year, the funding goes down to the standard TA package and no summer funding is guaranteed.

 

I think the assumption is that, once you have chosen an advisor (you don't decide until 1-3 years into the program), they might have summer funding for you. You also might apply for external fellowships in later years. If not, both places said that summer TAships are almost always available, they just cannot guarantee it (and students corroborated this).

[bsharpe269]

Is the summer funding thing field dependent? In my field, schools seem to offer a stipend of X amount her year, split evenly throughout the year (including summer). I've never heard of people not getting paid during the summer in my field. What are you supposed to do if you can't find summer funding? You stop grad school for a couple months and work a different job?

[MathCat]

Is the summer funding thing field dependent? In my field, schools seem to offer a stipend of X amount her year, split evenly throughout the year (including summer). I've never heard of people not getting paid during the summer in my field. What are you supposed to do if you can't find summer funding? You stop grad school for a couple months and work a different job?

You get paid over 9 months and make it stretch to all 12 if needed, I suppose. Like I said, in practice, they said (and students corroborated) that they can always find TAships if their advisors don't have funding. The 9 month package is enough to live on for a year if you are frugal. I should also note that students are not required to be present during the summer at these two programs (although most are).

[TakeruK]

The summer stipend thing is field dependent. Also, "era" dependent. I know that in my field, there was no summer funding in some programs decades ago (at least not for the first summer). My professors told me that back in the day, you would rarely get a RAship for your first summer, so most people just go home for the summer and study for quals. Maybe work a part time job or something to earn extra money. 

 

But nowadays, in STEM fields, we either get 12-month funding, or it might be only paid for 9 months but it would be enough to last for all 12 months. Competitive stipend packages in most STEM fields do not usually require students to scramble for summer funding, as far as I know.

[dr. t]

But nowadays, in STEM fields, we either get 12-month funding, or it might be only paid for 9 months but it would be enough to last for all 12 months. Competitive stipend packages in most STEM fields do not usually require students to scramble for summer funding, as far as I know.

 

The humanities are the same, though summer funding is usually(?) just 1 month's worth of money.

[educdoc]

Hmmm.... I'm currently in a humanity field with a STEM background, and my research interest is related to my background, wanting to apply it to the current field. If this makes any sense. And theya re interested in my idea of doing interdisciplinary research. But the funding, oh the funding.... Should I look for extramural funding? Would NSF even look into an application as mine, interdisciplinary but based on humanities?

[maelia8]

@Telkanuru I'm surprised to hear that - at my institution we are only guaranteed $5000 of summer funding total for the entire Ph.D., and the 9-month stipend, while enough to stretch 12 months if you are very frugal and stay in town, is nowhere near enough to allow for research that involves travel and archival use. RA and TAships are almost never given to first or second year students over the summer, and the few positions available are not even enough for the upper level grad students who have first priority for them. Your best bet around here it to apply in late fall/winter for external summer funding through FLAS, DAAD, or something similar and hope that you get it, because otherwise you probably aren't leaving town and will spend your summer holed up studying for quals while working part-time to get some money saved.

[dr. t]

Maelia, if you're at UCBerk, the numbers I've seen for the general stipend are almost offensively low, particularly considering the quality of the history department and the cost of living in the Bay Area. I assume this is the result of a public/private split.

[Cheshire_Cat]

At my schiil, if you have a masters, you get a teaching assistantship for the summer which pays about the same as the semester pay.  But that is just this school, I know a school in the same city where they never teach.

[maelia8]

@Telkanuru you're probably right. I know folks down at Stanford who get a cool $10,000 per year more than we do, plus they have guaranteed cheap sponsored grad housing. I knew what I was getting into when I got here, and I wouldn't trade my experience (which has been great so far), but it does require very, very careful management of finances to survive. I've been able to put 10% of my earnings in my IRA and save up for a laptop this year, but only by working part-time and budgeting obsessively to make a 9-month stipend last 12 months. Several other folks in my cohort were not as careful and were literally down to the last few dollars when they finally got summer funding deposits a month ago. This is one of the few situations in which I thank my tightwad dad for his frugality training.

[ashiepoo72]

I'm funded via a pretty sweet fellowship my first year, which covers 12 months, but after that it's a 9-month stipend and hopefully summer research funds if the department can swing it. Despite this, Davis' funding is sufficient to live on because the area is much more reasonable than the Bay, which is where I've lived my entire life. Yes, it's pretty much poverty, but all the grad students I talked to before I accepted said its "secure poverty" because everyone comes in with guaranteed funding and the department almost always manages to fund people for additional years if need be. I know STEM fields make a lot more in general, but I spoke to a friend in the engineering PhD program and he's funded year to year, entirely by his PI, which feels much less secure than the 5 years upfront--but probably 6-7 years--I'll get.

Maybe it's because I have a kid, but knowing I have income for at least half a decade means the world to me, even if it's not as cushy as the sciences.