Can I transfer to another PhD program after 1st semester?

[compscian]

I am an international student and going to attend a PhD program this Fall. I found it extremely hard to choose between two schools and waited till the last minute to make a decision. Both schools are nearly of the same reputed (2-3 ranks difference maybe) which further added to my confusion. Being an international student, I was also not able to visit any university. The opinions I formed about the university and departments were largely based on Skype conversations I had with POIs at the two universities, in addition to short email exchanges with a few grad students there.

 

The issue is this: Place A is a little better in terms of research fit (have 4 POIs as opposed to 3 at B, and two of them are very famous while all are associate profs at B ), whereas place B was attractive for many non-academic reasons.

 

Being an international student who has never left the country, I felt it was very important for me to make sure that I was comfortable with living arrangements and the university. This has been a sort of psychological issue I have had for quite some time (I am trying hard to correct, but to no avail). I am a very big introvert who constantly needs to be around other introvertsy friends. I had quit one summer internship in the past because I had to work in a city far away from my home town, where after going there I had a miserable experience - not knowing the local language, sub-par living accommodation (very dirty, non-private toilets) etc. Place B seemed more at home for me since I personally know two students there who were happy and doing well, in addition to having a considerable representation of students from my country. Also a class mate of mine is joining the same university, but different department. Place A did not have anyone I know over there, and I could not really relate to any grad student over there through email. Keeping this in mind, I decided to accept the offer from B.

 

However, over the past few weeks, I have been plagued with mini panic attacks. I am not sure if I have made the correct decision. The more I think about it, the more I feel I am missing out on good research prospects of place A. Most people I have spoken to also pass comments that one must be ready to forgo certain comforts and be ready to live in relatively unknown environments. Though I do see some merit in their comments, I feel such opinions are largely formed by ones' life experiences, which in my case have been quite sour. It is certainly a given that place A is better research wise, but the difference is not like MIT vs SJSU, both the universities are in 5-10 rank range. However I certainly do feel bad that I am missing out on a better research fit.

 

My question: If after one semester at place B, I feel that I can manage living in place A, and if I am not overly excited by the research at place B, can I transfer to the program at place A? Is this a realistic possibility? This could be for either the spring term, summer term, or the next fall, I don't mind. I don't even mind losing one year in the process if they insist I can't transfer any credits. The only worry I have is whether place A would be willing to take me again. I am sure my application will only be stronger - works I listed as under preparation are now either published or under review. I will likely have a top journal paper (my best project spanning 2 years) and a conference paper at a mid range venue by this Dec, both of which were "under preparation" last year. I will be honest in my SOP and explain reasons behind my choice of actions, and explain to the best of my capabilities, but I am not sure if they will be able to relate to it.

 

I am asking this because it will give me some sense of closure and a backup plan in case things go very wrong. I would really appreciate your comments, suggestion, and even better an incident you have seen where this happened. I haven't been able to sleep for the last 4-5 days, and I hope I can get some sleep knowing I haven't terribly screwed up.

 

Thank you so much

Edited June 9, 2015 by compscian

[fuzzylogician]

Transferring is almost certainly not an option. You would likely have to reapply and go through the process like any other candidate. Moreover, you would need to come up with a good explanation for why your current program (school B ) was not a good fit for you, in a way that would not make you sound less attractive to school A (which, as a student who might appear like they couldn't hack it after just one semester, could be a problem). It might be difficult to do without getting at least one letter of recommendation from school B, but on the other hand I assume you wouldn't want to tell them you are trying to move away before you had a guaranteed acceptance from school A. In short, it doesn't sound like a good idea, if for no other reason than that it would mean that you would spend your first semester/year worrying about applications and moving away instead of being immersed in classes, making friends and connections, and getting acclimated to your new home. Frankly, it sounds like a recipe for an unhappy first year and who knows what that might do to your future.

 

This all said, I think you need to stop thinking about ways to keep all your options open. It sounds to me like you made the best decision for yourself given what matters most to you. For the record, I would have made the same choice. These kinds of choices always mean that you are giving something up and there is a 'what-if' element that lingers. But that would also be the case if you had made the opposite choice. I think right now it would be best for you to accept the decision as final and try and get yourself excited about everything school B has to offer, which from all you are describing sounds like a lot. Maybe you could come back to school A for a postdoc or as a visiting student for a semester 2-3 years from now, but maybe you won't even want to in a few years. There will be other opportunities -- this is not the end of your career, it's just the beginning.

[compscian]

Thanks fuzzylogician, when I said transfer, I meant by reapplication only. This I would do of course only IF I am not very excited by the research at school B AND I am confident and excited by living at school A (this is a big if) AND I am extremely depressed that I let go of school A. Sometimes, it makes a huge psychological difference if you can actually undo some of the decisions you make.

 

I am pretty sure I cannot get a recommendation letter from school B since I am not expected to do any research in the first year, and certainly not the first semester. Even currently (summer) I am working at my undergrad place, so letters from there will be very relevant (I would have been away for only ~3 months) and up to date.

 

Since school A already did accept me, and tried quite hard to recruit me, will they be that skeptical in taking me again? I would of course tell them that I should have taken the offer from school A in the first place, and made a terrible mistake, and would like to correct the mistake when the damage is as minimal as possible (worst case, I am losing an year of coursework, but that is fine with me).

[rising_star]

If you reapply, it's likely that none of the coursework you do at School B would transfer to School A...

 

Honestly, everyone second guesses their decision. It's totally normal. Go to School B with an open mind and see where that takes you.

[Eigen]

There's also going to be skepticism on the part of School A because you've turned them down once. 

 

If I tried really hard to recruit someone, they turned me down for a better fit, and then applied again immediately... I'd start to doubt their ability to decide how well they fit into a program. 

 

Make your decision, and then be at peace with it. 

 

You can always leave if you don't like it, but you definitely shouldn't start off thinking about going somewhere else- it won't give you the best chance at B. 

[TakeruK]

It depends on the school. Transferring is certainly not an option, you will have to qualify for admission again.

 

However, some schools are flexible. The physics program in my school explicitly says that all offers of admission are valid for 1 year, even if you declined it in the past. So, if School A was the physics program at my school, you can certainly decide in January 2016 that you don't want to attend school B after all and would like to restart your PhD program at School A in September 2016. Your admission is already guaranteed--no reapplication necessary! The reason this program gives for this policy is that they want the best people to come and sometimes you might want to try something else first (e.g. school B, a job in industry, take a year off etc.) and that's fine.

 

But, the only thing guaranteed is admission. You would have to qualify for funding and getting your choice of supervisor etc. along with anyone else entering in September 2016.

 

So, my advice for now is to:

 

1. First and foremost, make peace with your decision to attend B. Don't go to B with the mindset that you'll end up at A later. Give B a fair shot.

 

2. If it makes you feel better, research the policies on admission at A. 

 

3. If you don't like B after giving it a fair shot, or if you are now certain you prefer A over B, then talk to A immediately about their admission policies.

 

Note: Leaving B would burn bridges at B but if A is really where you feel you belong, then it might be worth it.

[St Andrews Lynx]

I know international students who successfully transferred after 1 semester. In that instance it was an issue of research fit (PIs in their area of interest weren't taking students, etc). Most programs would rather you left after 1 year if you identified yourself as a bad fit (which doesn't cost the Dept much money), then pump a lot of resources into your training and have you drop out in your 4th year. 

 

 

In your case it sounds like a case of normal pre-grad school anxiety and too much second-guessing. That's really normal - most people question their decision, especially in the immediate lead-up to to moving (is a PhD right for me? Am I going to the right university? Should I have gone to X instead?). I think that in the majority of instances, those frenetic anxieties calm down and turn out to be unfounded. 

 

My question: If after one semester at place B, I feel that I can manage living in place A, and if I am not overly excited by the research at place B, can I transfer to the program at place A? 

 

 

I can't help but feeling that the emphasised line is not a really good attitude to have. If you find that you are adjusting well to Place B...why transfer to Place A at all? If Place B (where your friends are, and where there are plenty of people from your own culture) isn't working out, why would going to Place A (where you don't know anyone and where it sounds like there are fewer people from your own culture) be a better choice? There's also no guarantee that doing well in Place B means you'll also do well in Place A: if the locations are geographically & culturally different, say Big Midwestern City vs. East Coast Campus In The Middle Of Nowhere, then your suitability for one is not really a predictor of suitability for the other. 

 

Talk through your feelings with understanding family and friends - especially those already in the USA. Go with a positive, open mindset. Make an effort to connect with the people and surroundings in Place B. 

[compscian]

Thank you all for the response. @St Andrews Lynx The only reason why I would like to transfer is because school A is better (at this stage, I am unable to gauge to what extent). There are two superstars of the field at school A, and one of my POIs at school B (assistant professor, joined 2 years ago) got his PhD at school A under said professors. There are of course 3 POIs at school B, who are very successful researchers and were very sweet to talk to. But just to give an example, everyone in physics (statistical) dreams of getting their PhD under someone like Newman, rite? I don't want to be remembered as that idiot who threw away a successful career because he was too chicken to live alone. This is my anxiety.

 

With regards to reapplication, my files would be with the school anyway, and nothing much has changed since last December. My GPA has improved, and my papers have been accepted. I guess I will just update that, and submit off an application, in addition to maybe sending an email stating my thoughts to POIs at A this Dec.

 

At this point, I am just pissed at myself and the universities, for not being able to fly in international students for the visit! I thought about spending some money myself and going, but I thought about this quite late, and given visa issues this was not possible
I am certain I would enjoy my stay at school B, and be able to do at least a decent PhD. But will my career be drastically different had I chosen school A is a thought that gives me nightmares (faculty in top 15 univ vs some mid level R&D lab for example).

 

Just knowing that there is a reasonable chance I can move to school A after a year (if I am able to conquer my inner daemons) if I feel that the move would be better for me later (say this December/January) will calm me down greatly. The worst-case scenario in this case will be a few burnt bridges and a year wasted, which IMO is better than feeling miserable for over 4 years that I am not doing best possible research which I could have done at A.

I am certain about my field of interest, and hence I would have to constantly read papers in the area, a good chunk of which comes out from school A. Even now, while doing my internship at my undergrad school, whenever I read papers from school A, I can't help but feel sad and this has totally destroyed my productivity over the last week.

 

I am certain that given the circumstances, I have made a good choice. The toss up was being happy socially, with this risk of not doing the best possible projects (at B ); vs a chance to work with some of the best minds, but a possibility that I will feel miserable and lonely for 4-5 years (at A). I am sure had I chosen school A, I would have contemplated this question even more strongly. The uncertainty of whether I would fit in socially at A is too frightening.

 

I just wish grad schools give something like a 1 year trial periods Spend a semester or two at your top 2 or 3 choices, and then pick one that works the best. Something like lab rotations, though I know this is too much to ask for.

Edited June 10, 2015 by compscian

[shinigamiasuka]

You're worrying too much, IMO. Being lonely and miserable isn't a good idea. Stick with B. Convince yourself that everything is going to be all right. Try to collaborate with POIs from A if possible while at B. Do your post-doc there afterwards.

[compscian]

Guys, I am really sweating now. I think I might have made a wrong choice, and almost everyone I speak to keep telling me that I should have gone to school A. Most were shocked I didn't take the offer, and now I am questioning my decision very seriously. Its not some passing anxiety or second-guessing, but I am quite seriously questioning my decision.

 

Is there any chance that school A will still accept me if I tell them now? Its been nearly two months past the CGS deadline (15th April). If there is a chance they might give me the offer with same funding package, I will really think about shifting now before any serious damage is done. I'd really appreciate your inputs.

[fuzzylogician]

Only school A can answer this question. There is no way we can know. I still don't think you should switch, but if you are serious about this, contact them immediately and ask. HOWEVER, only do this if you are absolutely sure you will accept their offer if it's still standing. Don't ask and then decline their offer a second time, because that will not leave a good impression and will make transferring or taking a postdoc there difficult. Also keep in mind that doing this might burn bridges with school B, so if you do end up accepting school A's offer you need to be careful about how you let school B know.

[rising_star]

compscian, stop worrying about what everyone else thinks you should have done. They are not you. They don't have to live with your decision or move to School A where you already believe you'll be unhappy. Go to School B and give it a chance. Stop second guessing yourself. It's easy to do, especially in the summer when you don't have anything else to do, but you really need to just stop worrying about it. Get excited about moving to School B, figure out where you'll live, what nearby activities you can get involved in, etc. 

[knp]

We all go through this life one moment at a time; that's one reason we procrastinate, because Future You can take care of it, while Present You slacks off. Right now, you need to trust Past You. You did your research then, and made the decision that was best for you. You are capable of making good decisions for your life, right? You're an adult, you haven't gotten this far without some ability to make choices for yourself. Past You weighed all the options and made an informed, responsible choice. Other people's opinions: whatever. Trust Past You's decision.

[rising_star]

This might also help: 

[bsharpe269]

You need to stop thinking about switching to school A. Going to a great, equally ranked school (school B is not going to hurt your academic career. Being unable to make decisions for yourself, burning bridges in the field, etc will hurt your academic career though. You will be do more damage by switching than you will by sticking with the decision you made to go to school B.

 

You don't need to work for an allstar PI during your PhD. In fact, I think its better you don't. It can be hard to get great training from someone who is already that famous since they probably have very busy schedules. I had the opportunity to go to a higher ranked school than the one I chose. I also had the opportunity to work for the top PI in the field. I declined both of the opportunities for the school I liked the best, would be happiest at, and would give me terrific training. I am very happy with my decision. I don't spend my days questioning myself. I spend my days reading literature and planning rotation project ideas.

 

You (and only you) will decide if you do your best work at school B or not. You're not going to better work at A than B just the PI is more famous. If you want to do great work then go do great work at the school you chose. You're creating alot of stress for yourself for absolutely no reason. If you love the work of the profs at school A then you can do your postdoc with them. You didn't make a wrong decision. When choosing between 2 great schools, there is no wrong decision. You made a great decision and need to make the most of it.

Edited June 12, 2015 by bsharpe269

[compscian]

Thanks guys. I have decided to stick with my original choice of school B. Spoke to a few students there, and it turns out that students of one POI (the one who got his PhD from A) go to school A as visiting students quite regularly. More than half of his PhD students have spent at least one semester there. I guess I will do something like that, or take his letter and attend school A for postdoc. Thanks for all your inputs