weird situation with professor

[fuzzylogician]

One reason we think it is important that a record of the posts is kept is to correctly represent the context of the thread, so it remains useful to future readers. Here, for example, you are now saying that I made "abusive accusations" against you. I was responding to your own words in your now deleted original post where you said that you wanted to get your professor into trouble with the university, because of something that her boyfriend did off campus and which we have no evidence that she was involved in in any way. You may have meant something innocent, but those words carry a meaning that is not innocent. I don't think it's reasonable to ask us to stop referring to your posts simply because you don't like the answers you have received, especially since you are calling us out by name. I assume that you don't like the answers you have received because throughout you have been down-voting every post that suggests that the situation may have been more complicated than your interpretation of it, and you up-voted everyone who supported your interpretation. I have nothing more to add except responding to your latest reply to me to clarify that I have never mentioned Northwestern in any of my posts so I am not sure what you are referring to there, and I stand by what I did say (which, by the way, are my opinions, as a poster like any other). However, if you wish, I will stop responding specifically to your case in the future.

 

More generally, moderators on this site are not paid. We volunteer our time to help others, and we want to make sure that our replies can help as many people as possible, hence the record keeping and policy against deleting posts. I am sorry if you feel that the responses you have gotten here have been unhelpful, but as has already been explained and I will not repeat at length, you can't control what people say. Maybe once some of the emotions linked with this situation and thread subside you can see that we were trying to help, and if not perhaps someone who comes in with a similar story in the future and reads this thread will. Whatever happens, I wish you luck and working through this obviously difficult situation and I hope that you can find a way to resolve it to your satisfaction. 

[spunky]

Fuzzy logician, you are really, really unhelpful. I discussed a completely unrelated issue with the harassment office at my university once before. I was mistaken in thinking that that office also served as the Title IX Office. 

 

I also did not know what you meant when you said it sounded like a Northwestern case brewing. I have not been following the Northwestern case recently, and I only knew about Northwestern's policy update and Kipnis's response. I was assuming that was what you were talking about at first, and I only found out about the Title IX retaliation complaints brought against Kipnis later on, after this thread had been going on for a while.

 

I do not think it is in any way disrespectful of me to delete a post when people are jumping to unreasonable conclusions about me and my character, based on the limited information I provided. I thought there used to be a way to delete a post shortly after posting, if the poster decided that he or she had provided too much personal information, but I guess I was mistaken.

 

I do not appreciate the responses I have received, though, regardless of the precious time that the posters devoted, and I do wish there was a way to delete this thread or at least my account. Maybe there is a way to delete my account, and I am just not seeing it?

 

In the meantime, continue the discussion about terrible students who abuse Title IX if you must, but stop referring to me. That problem has absolutely nothing to do with me, and I find these accusations abusive.

 

Also, please remember that it was not my idea to use the term "Title IX Office," and that in saying that's where I would go, I was just echoing rising_star's advice and trying to sound agreeable. It was my intention to do my own research and figure out the appropriate reporting venue at my university, not to actually, blindly march into the Title IX Office and tell them my story. 

 

if there is any consolation anotherapplicantanotherapp, i'm 100% with you and your initial assessment of the situation would have been the same exact same as mine. my husband runs his own business and he has taught me how to follow your gut in situations like this. at least in the business world/office politics, it is incredibly common for people to do things and then "pretend" they didn't happen or make sure to use other people/fake email accounts/etc. to do their dirty work so they can at least have some sort of plausible deniability excuse. 

 

i may entertain the possibility that this person's boyfriend acted of his own accord if there had been some sort of apology or reaching out on her behalf. had my husband done something like this i would have probably slapped him right that moment because of just how ratchet that kind of behaviour is. but the convenient sequence of events  that you described and her apparent lack of response seemed just too convenient to me for this to just be an accident of sorts. 

 

i personally would confront her in private before going all the way. like "hey, i'm not stupid here. if there's anything you need to say say it now to my face". 

[rising_star]

I guess it's strongly Title IX office dependent. I'd almost always send someone to one of the confidential resources unless what was communicated to me was in the realm of something that necessitated reporting- but that's mostly because I've seen so many nightmarish quagmires come out of Title IX reports that would have been much better for all parties involved if they'd gone somewhere else first or instead.

 

Well, this is something that is definitely changing. When I worked for state universities, we were so called "mandated reporters". That is, if we knew about a sexual assault or sexual harassment, we were obligated to report it to the appropriate administrators. (An example of where people have gotten in trouble for not doing so is the FSU case with Jameis Winston where athletics employees knew about the allegations, didn't report them, and in some cases were subsequently fired.) My private institution doesn't use the term "mandated reporter" but, essentially, we are. If a student starts to tell me about being sexual assaulted, it is my duty to alert them to the fact that I may be required to report the incident to the Title IX coordinator if they tell me about the incident and that I then have no say over what happens. If I know and don't report it to the Title IX Coordinator, then I am potentially risking a Title IX violation for the school, which is why we're required to report what we know, even if it's only partial information. I have made several reports based on partial information and even hearsay this year, in part because I'm not about to get fired for not doing so. Yes, this is totally CYA but that's the way many colleges are now interpreting the "Dear Colleagues" letter. 

 

I'll just add that a lot of what I just said is based on my experiences as a faculty member. I didn't get this kind of detailed training about Title IX related reporting obligations as a graduate student or even when on a fellowship last year. But my sense is that is changing as colleges try to stay in compliance with the updated guidelines from the Office of Civil Rights.

 

 

I do not appreciate the responses I have received, though, regardless of the precious time that the posters devoted, and I do wish there was a way to delete this thread or at least my account. Maybe there is a way to delete my account, and I am just not seeing it?

 

You can send a request to have your account deleted. I (or another administrator) can delete your account but all of your posts will remain on the site. 

[Eigen]

Well, this is something that is definitely changing. When I worked for state universities, we were so called "mandated reporters". That is, if we knew about a sexual assault or sexual harassment, we were obligated to report it to the appropriate administrators. (An example of where people have gotten in trouble for not doing so is the FSU case with Jameis Winston where athletics employees knew about the allegations, didn't report them, and in some cases were subsequently fired.) My private institution doesn't use the term "mandated reporter" but, essentially, we are. If a student starts to tell me about being sexual assaulted, it is my duty to alert them to the fact that I may be required to report the incident to the Title IX coordinator if they tell me about the incident and that I then have no say over what happens. If I know and don't report it to the Title IX Coordinator, then I am potentially risking a Title IX violation for the school, which is why we're required to report what we know, even if it's only partial information. I have made several reports based on partial information and even hearsay this year, in part because I'm not about to get fired for not doing so. Yes, this is totally CYA but that's the way many colleges are now interpreting the "Dear Colleagues" letter. 

 

I'll just add that a lot of what I just said is based on my experiences as a faculty member. I didn't get this kind of detailed training about Title IX related reporting obligations as a graduate student or even when on a fellowship last year. But my sense is that is changing as colleges try to stay in compliance with the updated guidelines from the Office of Civil Rights.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant when I shorthanded "realm of something that necessitated reporting". Graduate students get almost no training, but I somehow was identified as one of the mandatory reporters, and have had to go through the trainings in accordance with Title IX. At least at my institution, we have a very defined list of items that fall under Title IX (definitely sexual assault or sexual harassment, but also a long list of other related offenses) then we are required to (a) inform the student and (b ) file a report with all of the information we do know. We also thankfully have very well defined confidential, non-confidential, and "semi-confidential" offices identified on campus that we can refer students to with or without an accompanying Title IX report. 

 

As I said, I don't know the contents of the original post here, so I'm sure your read on the applicability to title IX is more accurate than mine. 

[anotherapplicantanotherapp]

Yes, fuzzy logician, this is an open forum, and I have been down voting your posts because I find them particularly unhelpful. If you were not the one to mention Northwestern, I apologize. It must have been someone else. However, you did tell me that I seemed like I was probably someone who often misinterprets my professors actions, which I think was an unreasonable assumption to make. It did make it sound like you were trying to use my past experience with a harassment complaint to undermine my credibly, which sounded to me like victim-blaming. Also, I was annoyed by the assumption that "experience" with a harassment complaint automatically indicated to you that I was the one who had filed the complaint, that the complaint was deemed unfounded, and that I lodged the complaint against a professor. (In actuality, I assisted in the investigation of a complaint made by several classmates against another graduate student, and the result of the investigation was that the student was expelled.)

 

Thank you to all who have offered helpful comments, though.

Edited June 30, 2015 by anotherapplicantanotherapp

[bsharpe269]

I read your post yesterday before it was deleted. I think you should take some sort of action. The situation you describe was absolutely inappropriate. I think others make good points that the issue is more with the boyfriend than with the professor so you will probably have to take action against him instead of the professor. 

 

Stepping away from legal details of who gets in trouble (which will likely be the boyfriend), I do think that the professor acted completely inappropriately and am shocked that so many people are blowing it off as no big deal. There was obviously something extreme said about the OP to inspire that sort of behavior from her boyfriend. I also think that the PI has an obligation to her students to not let her boyfriend harass them. In fact, at my school professors are by university policies required to report any known harassment issues involving their students. Not only did the professor not adhere to this kind of behavior, she witnessed it (and very likely played a role in instigating it). This is absolutely inappropriate behavior. I do not think you owe this professor any sort of protection. You simply reporting the incident is not going to result in problems for the professor unless the school agrees that there is a misconduct issue. You can simply make the facts known and the university can decide how they want to handle the situation. If the professor gets in trouble then you are not the reason. You are simply stating facts and the university can then decide whether they want this person mentoring students given the facts.

 

Anyway, didn't the whole incident start because this professor has a history of problems with students?? It sounds to me like you are not the first student to have problems with her.

[anotherapplicantanotherapp]

Thanks for your response, bsharp269. I was obviously a little shocked that so many people were acting like what happened was no big deal, too--but I guess that's what comes with posting in an open forum, as has been explained to me now!

 

Anyway, yes, the whole incident did start because of the professor having a history of problems with other students and her department chair leading me to believe that the problems were not going up the chain of comment to the dean/university level. My guess is that the whole reason my email incited such an disproportionally severe response was because the professor knew she was on thin ice already--which I also sort of knew--and was really scared about the possibility of more complaints.

 

Of course, the sad thing is, I would not have complained had the incident with the boyfriend not happened, but now I probably will. Oh well....

[bhr]

I'm just going to say that the moderators have been real jerks to the OP on this thread. She came on here seeking advice after a really disturbing attack (that's what it was) from someone affiliated with a faculty member, and not only have you been dismissive, but you've 1) accused her of blowing things out of proportion 2) suggested she's a serial complainer/overreactor 3) suggested that her personal well-being is somehow less important than a professor's career.

 

You accuse her of ginning up a Kipnis style complaint, but your comments remind me of why I thought Kipnis was so off-base with her initial article. A professor has a sexual relationship with a student, and when they end, if a student feels that they were taken advantage of due to the power imbalance, they are often counseled to consider the ramifications of their actions on the professors career. "Oh, you don't want him to get fired over this" or "you were a willing participant" or "maybe you read action x wrong". It's terrible advice, and less than what I expect to see from you.

 

No, the school can't punish the professor's partner over an action that took place outside of an organized campus event, but to think that his action occurred in a vacuum, without any input from the professor herself, is ridiculous. If nothing else, the professor should have apologized to the student and taken actions to remedy any trauma, as there is no question that an act like that could have a chilling effect on a student's participation with faculty.

 

I think I've been a valuable contributor in my time here, but, if this is how the moderators and staff treat someone, I think I'm going to be ending my time on this site.

[ketchupnchips]

I agree 100% with bhr. I am actually shocked at how negative some of the responses have been towards the OP. Not just negative, but dismissive, and actually kind of blaming/shaming the OP (as that is how it comes across to me).

 

Clearly the professor is involved to an extent, especially since she was present when it occurred and is maintaining silence. 

If it is possible would you be able to talk to the professor first? (If you choose to, make sure it is over a format like email so you have records, and be careful with your wording).

Otherwise, finding the correct channels at your university to report this is a good next step. 

 

OP, I hope you can get this resolved and regain a peace of mind. 

 

 

*Edited: As a side note, I did read the original post before it was deleted. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by ketchupnchips

[ballwera]

The biggest issue here is that the initial post was deleted (less than an hour after the thread was made). Now, anyone who comes into this thread has no context what so ever, even if you wanted "helpful" advice you'll never get it. 

[ketchupnchips]

The biggest issue here is that the initial post was deleted (less than an hour after the thread was made). Now, anyone who comes into this thread has no context what so ever, even if you wanted "helpful" advice you'll never get it. 

 

I respectfully disagree, as that is not the biggest issue I find with this thread. It was the OP's prerogative to choose to delete their post. They knew it was at the cost of possibly not receiving additional "helpful" advice.  

[ballwera]

I respectfully disagree, as that is not the biggest issue I find with this thread. It was the OP's prerogative to choose to delete their post. They knew it was at the cost of possibly not receiving additional "helpful" advice.  

 Yes, that is true, but then you can't go on to complain about the direction in which the thread goes...

[TakeruK]

I respectfully disagree, as that is not the biggest issue I find with this thread. It was the OP's prerogative to choose to delete their post. They knew it was at the cost of possibly not receiving additional "helpful" advice.  

 

The OP does not have this prerogative. Once content is posted, TheGradCafe determines what remains and what disappears, not the original poster. Again, I refer all users to our policies and in particular, a recent post to clarify the edit/delete policy:  was posted by rising_star, but the contents were coauthored over many weeks by everyone on the moderating team. 

 

As I said above, TheGradCafe is not the ideal place if you want complete anonymity and the ability to delete your personal details after you get help or see some responses. Unfortunately, for complicated situations, it is impossible for another person to give advice/thoughts without specific details, but these specific details are usually relevant to the topic being discussed, so they will not be removed. It is the responsibility of each user, prior to making any posts, to weigh the pros and cons of getting specific advice at the cost of providing potentially personal details and take action accordingly. 

[bhr]

The OP does not have this prerogative. Once content is posted, TheGradCafe determines what remains and what disappears, not the original poster. Again, I refer all users to our policies and in particular, a recent post to clarify the edit/delete policy:  was posted by rising_star, but the contents were coauthored over many weeks by everyone on the moderating team. 

 

As I said above, TheGradCafe is not the ideal place if you want complete anonymity and the ability to delete your personal details after you get help or see some responses. Unfortunately, for complicated situations, it is impossible for another person to give advice/thoughts without specific details, but these specific details are usually relevant to the topic being discussed, so they will not be removed. It is the responsibility of each user, prior to making any posts, to weigh the pros and cons of getting specific advice at the cost of providing potentially personal details and take action accordingly. 

And you don't think that the poster may have wanted to delete her post after the pile-on/shaming that took place here? Constructive criticism is one thing, but the responses she was getting, specifically from Rising Star and Fuzzy, were the sort of thing that we should discourage among academics, not support. The dismissal of the OPs concerns, the instant support for the professor (who is clearly in the wrong here), ect are the exact same thing that schools are trying to combat irt Title IX and harassment complaints, and you are being critical of the OP for down voting those responses (which, honest to god, seems incredibly petty).

[ERR_Alpha]

The moderators are human. They give the best advice they can. They're not professional therapists (as far as I'm aware). When you post on the internet you open yourself up to good, bad, and ugly advice. If you knew what you wanted to hear, then why post it on a public forum?

[MathCat]

Disclaimer: I didn't see the original post before it was deleted.

 

Those who are saying that the professor is clearly involved *seem* to be saying it because she didn't apologize to the OP after the incident (whatever the incident was). I'd just like to point out that some people would have taken the professor apologizing to the OP as the professor admitting responsibility, so maybe the professor was worried about that perception of things. I can't possibly know what happened, but people are jumping to conclusions on both sides of this.

[eeee1923]

The moderators are human. They give the best advice they can. They're not professional therapists (as far as I'm aware). When you post on the internet you open yourself up to good, bad, and ugly advice. If you knew what you wanted to hear, then why post it on a public forum?

 

Agreed 

[anotherapplicantanotherapp]

This is the last thing I was say on this thread, but when I posted, I expected that I would be treated with some respect. I do not believe I was treated with respect by the site monitors when my post was available. Sometimes people are disrespectful and short-sighted without realizing it--particularly when talking across lines and gender and power--and I believe that's what happened here. That does not mean that I cannot tell people that I find their comments on helpful, though, or that I cannot make efforts to stop disrespectful comments aimed at my post. So I took down my post, I am not putting it back up--no matter who tries to act like I owe my post to Grad Cafe. I have not used Grad Cafe in months and was not aware of the edit policies when I made my post. Now that I know the site policies and have had the experience of posting here, I won't be using the site anymore. Problem solved.

Edited July 1, 2015 by anotherapplicantanotherapp

[dr. t]

Man, there's some retroactive memory modification going on here. That original post was deleted at 11:06pm EST after being posted at 10:18pm. That means you decided to delete the thread after post #7, before anyone brought up Northwestern or anything. The worst you got was people who were unable to see the legal link between the boyfriend's actions (whatever they were) and the professor (whatever she had done). 

[anotherapplicantanotherapp]

Guys, I am not going back through and looking at the posts and just writing from memory. Again, pardon my factual error regarding the chronology of events. It was Fuzzy Logician's early post that really make me feel stupid and made me decide to take my post down, if it's so important for me to specify exactly what I found to be so disrespectful on this thread. It seems like everyone is looking for small mistakes in my language and my retelling of events as a means to ignore the real points I'm trying to make. Thanks for nothing, and bye.

Edited July 1, 2015 by anotherapplicantanotherapp

[bsharpe269]

Disclaimer: I didn't see the original post before it was deleted.

 

Those who are saying that the professor is clearly involved *seem* to be saying it because she didn't apologize to the OP after the incident (whatever the incident was). I'd just like to point out that some people would have taken the professor apologizing to the OP as the professor admitting responsibility, so maybe the professor was worried about that perception of things. I can't possibly know what happened, but people are jumping to conclusions on both sides of this.

 

The professor sat and watched her boyfriend majorly harass OP and has a history of major student complaints so its a bit deeper than just expecting an apology.

 

OP, I hope you are able to sort this out and have much better advisors/colleagues in the future!

Edited July 2, 2015 by bsharpe269

[ERR_Alpha]

I feel like this could've been a really good discussion. I never saw the first post so no dice I suppose.

[1Q84]

The professor sat and watched her boyfriend majorly harass OP and has a history of major student complaints so its a bit deeper than just expecting an apology.

 

The thing is, none of this is really "against the rules." Of course, it's heinous behavior to watch one's S/O physically assault someone but I can't imagine there is any university policy governing this type of situation. As was summarized before: off-campus event, assailant is not employed by university. 

 

You can't accuse the professor of wrong-doing just because she "has a history." That's not how the legal system works and that's not how university adjudication should work either. 

 

I think the mods took a somewhat... less tactful route but the core of the matter is that OP believes that the events that transpired are directly linked to an unpleasant email exchange and thus qualifies as a university matter because it links the professor directly to the assault. (Again, based on what has been posted, this is as far as "proof" goes.)

 

The Title IX stuff, which seems like kind of an off-the-cuff suggestion, has unfortunately turned into something of a red herring for the rest of the thread.

 

tl;dr there's a tenuous to nonexistent link between professor and the assault. To pursue further action against the professor based solely on that evidence would be irresponsible. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by 1Q84

[dr. t]

I'm out of upvotes, so I want to say that I agree with what 1Q84 said and to add that there are may ways to address and handle criticism, hostile or not. The original poster would do well to study some of them, as he or she will certainly find them professionally useful. The way he or she chose to address others' comments does not inspire confidence in the veracity and reliability of the original account.

[spunky]

The professor sat and watched her boyfriend majorly harass OP and has a history of major student complaints so its a bit deeper than just expecting an apology.

 

OP, I hope you are able to sort this out and have much better advisors/colleagues in the future!

 

i still feel like an confronting the prof in private before going all the way serves the purpose of both (1) clarify the situation (you never know... there  could be some unusual circumstance that could somehow in some strange way would help justify this heinous behaviour) and, MUCH more importantly (2) make her aware that you know what she's up to and that you're not afraid of her. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by spunky