Welcome to the 2015-2016 Cycle!

[worryandhope]

I understand the value of rankings (and of course I considered them when deciding where to apply), but as Professor Braumoeller recently mentioned in the Faculty Perspectives forum, applicants probably place way too much emphasis on the rankings. I suspect most of the people on this forum have read the methodological description for USNWR, but if not, here's the link: social sciences methodology.

There are a couple things that are really concerning to me about their ranking system (though admittedly I don't have a solution):

- "The questionnaires asked respondents to rate the academic quality of the programs at other institutions on a 5-point scale: outstanding (5), strong (4), good (3), adequate (2) or marginal (1). Individuals who were unfamiliar with a particular school's programs were asked to select "don't know." This subjective scale is the only basis for their rankings. I'm also not sure what "adequate" academic quality means in terms of an applicant, hiring committee, or prospective employer. 

-The sample size is small and it's not clear to me on how many surveys the rankings are based. 119 political science programs (or, more accurately, program directors, department heads, or professors) were surveyed with a response rate of 30%. I read this as: ~36 programs responded, with potentially 72 completed surveys (maybe two respondents per school based on the wording of the methodological description). If I'm misunderstanding their description, please correct me. The difference between most programs and the closely ranked programs is vanishingly small given the sample size, and even if there is a statistically significant difference between two programs, the practical significance of the difference is questionable at best given the actual question asked and responses available.

-USNWR used a reputable surveyor (Ipsos public affairs), and I'm certainly not more qualified than their statisticians, but I question the justification for the trimming process used to calculate program means: dropping the top and bottom two scores.

Given the methodology, I understand Professor Braumoeller's point on the limited value of the USNWR rankings for hiring committees and applicants' overemphasis. Nevertheless, they were certainly a significant component in my decisions.     

Edited February 2, 2016 by worryandhope
overstatement

[worryandhope]

Although, it does occur to me now that a major reason the rankings are useful to applicants is not because they indicate educational quality or outcome, but because they serve as a sorting mechanism. I know my stats and combined with the rough information about other applicants I have (including from GradCafe), they gave me a rough (and very likely faulty) guide for where I should apply to be competitive. Though that's a little circular isn't it; why is (part of) my goal to maximize the ranking of the school I can attend if I doubt the value of the rankings?

Another random digression: the importance of law school rankings is less disputed (and USNWR's law school ranking methodology is significantly different) and there is certainly a "top tier", but the top tier is the top 14 ranked schools. Is there some historical reason for T14 instead of T10 (which seems to be the focus here in the political science forum)? The emphasis on a top 10 program is certainly arbitrary, and presumably T14 is too, but why the difference? 

[brent09]

Rankings are a constant debate. They need to be a factor in the decision, but should not be the sole or even primary choice. There's considerable uncertainty in the rankings: Is Duke universally better than UNC? No. If you fit better at UNC, go to Chapel Hill.

But one should know that programs in the 30-60 range will convey disadvantages on the job market. It's easy to sell oneself on fit, on an exceptional placement from a low-ranked program, or on one's own exceptional effort and intellect. But in expectation, a 30-60 ranked program will not place one in a top job.

I treated rankings as a way to cluster and cull programs. The rankings should not dictate choices, but one can use them to target schools that convey the best chances for one's preferred career.

[s1994]

Love this discussion. However, on a side note, when are schools going to release their results during this "big week"? ... ;(

Any insider information?

Edited February 2, 2016 by shane94

[orb_cz]

49 minutes ago, CarefreeWritingsontheWall said:

I'd say my considerations aren't entirely typical. I haven't heard of many people saying that ontological concerns popped up when it came to program choice

This was also a concern of mine when I was choosing where to apply to.  I basically just applied to places with faculty that shared by theoretical interests and cut out a couple of places where I couldn't see myself living for 5+ years.  Having worked with people in the past who fought me on my approach, it is something I want to avoid in doing a PhD.

[VMcJ]

27 minutes ago, shane94 said:

Love this discussion. However, on a side note, when are schools going to release their results during this "big week"? ... ;(

Any insider information?

Maybe it will be like a Trump-week -- a YUUUUGE week, but it fails to deliver a win.

[wpg205]

Choosing which schools to apply to is really quite difficult.   If you simply could not live without a PhD in poly-sci, than choosing where to apply is really tough because there are probably alot of places where you could see yourself going if you had no alternative.  I am very conscious of the job market though, and I think the opportunity cost of a PhD is quite high. Consequently I was only willing to apply to programs that were a good fit and that I thought would give me a strong chance of having desirable TT options after graduation.  

I come from an economics background, so I didn't have much outside guidance on which schools would be a good fit. I had to mostly go on the USNWR rankings and then see if there were faculty at school who I would be interested in working with.  I applied to twelve schools and was actually hoping to find some more in the 10 to 25 range, but I couldn't find many that seemed like a good intellectual and geographical fit.  

Also of note, the higher ranked programs at more prestiges schools simply seem to have more faculty and thus more opportunity for prospective students to see someone they could work with.  It seems like tier 2 schools often specialized more in their department, whereas places at the top had specialists in everything.  Basically, if you want to apply to a top program, you can usually justify it based on the faculty that are there, whereas second tier and lower departments there is less room to justify the fit.  The fit is either really good, or totally absent.  If you throw in geographical preferences, then finding acceptable second tier or lower schools gets quite difficult. 

I guess we will all get to see how it works out.  Good luck to all, should be a big week. 

[needavacation]

Quiet so far . . .

[Determinedandnervous]

Congrats to the Missouri admits! 

[Straussian Dogmatist]

Beginning to get a bit worried - two people have reported acceptances to Michigan State. One about a week ago and one yesterday. Could MSU just report acceptances over the course of a few weeks? 

[Syas]

3 hours ago, wpg205 said:

 

Also of note, the higher ranked programs at more prestiges schools simply seem to have more faculty and thus more opportunity for prospective students to see someone they could work with.  It seems like tier 2 schools often specialized more in their department, whereas places at the top had specialists in everything.  Basically, if you want to apply to a top program, you can usually justify it based on the faculty that are there, whereas second tier and lower departments there is less room to justify the fit.  The fit is either really good, or totally absent.  If you throw in geographical preferences, then finding acceptable second tier or lower schools gets quite difficult. 

 

My field is political behavior with emphasis on the Middle Eastern societies. Mostly high ranked schools have the area focus and field that I am interested in. Lower ranked schools tend to lack either area focus or field, which has made it difficult to diversify my application portfolio.

[IndEnth]

I'm expecting 5 notifications this week, and it's Tuesday already and nothing has happened yet. I'll have to start drinking early in the day just to cope

[Determinedandnervous]

4 minutes ago, IndEnth said:

I'm expecting 5 notifications this week, and it's Tuesday already and nothing has happened yet. I'll have to start drinking early in the day just to cope

I hear ya. Every time my phone vibrates i think its an email from one of the schools and then it's always some newsletter I signed up for.

[studugarte]

Penn State, UCSD, NYU and UVA anytime this week will do. 

 

Please and thank you. 

[TheHopefulGrad]

28 minutes ago, Determinedandnervous said:

I hear ya. Every time my phone vibrates i think its an email from one of the schools and then it's always some newsletter I signed up for.

yeah! Johns Hopkins sent me some newsletter about SAIS

[IndEnth]

30 minutes ago, Determinedandnervous said:

I hear ya. Every time my phone vibrates i think its an email from one of the schools and then it's always some newsletter I signed up for.

Or an email telling me that someone quoted me on GradCafe

[s1994]

Just saw an update on Rice.

[Guyan]

Would emailing one member of admission committee and asking results be disturbing? I did it once last week.

[kaykaykay]

41 minutes ago, Guyan said:

Would emailing one member of admission committee and asking results be disturbing? I did it once last week.

yes. you should email the graduate coordinator if you absolutely need an update. also you could wait (well until much closer to april 15). there is really no need to bother a faculty member with administrative issues, in fact I am not even sure that you are supposed to know who is on  the admissions committee.  Btw, if they accept you some faculty member might contact you, that is a different situation.

(just imagine you are teaching several different classes and students might want to email you when your inbox gets flooded by emails from 300+ impatient prospective students)

Edited February 2, 2016 by kaykaykay

[ultraultra]

Whenever I've contacted departments about my application, it's always been the administrator/staff member in charge of graduate students that I've reached out to. Though I'd hold back unless you're really desperate - it's not particularly useful information anyway.

[Guyan]

12 minutes ago, kaykaykay said:

yes. you should email the graduate coordinator if you absolutely need an update. also you could wait (well until much closer to april 15). there is really no need to bother a faculty member with administrative issues, in fact I am not even sure that you are supposed to know who is on  the admissions committee.  Btw, if they accept you some faculty member might contact you, that is a different situation.

Thanks for the good suggestion!

[Guyan]

4 minutes ago, ultraultra said:

Whenever I've contacted departments about my application, it's always been the administrator/staff member in charge of graduate students that I've reached out to. Though I'd hold back unless you're really desperate - it's not particularly useful information anyway.

I'm really desperate hhhhhhhh. Thanks anyway.

[terefere]

3 hours ago, Guyan said:

Would emailing one member of admission committee and asking results be disturbing? I did it once last week.

I think it's a pretty bad signal, e-mailing impatiently at this moment. Faculty might think you will require a lot of babysitting once in the program. If you absolutely have to hear something, better e-mail the admissions assistant.

[CarefreeWritingsontheWall]

A small suggestion, for those of you who see your letter writers more regularly, would be to ask them if they've heard anything or been contacted by programs. I've received informal news through my supervisor personally.

[wb3060]

15 minutes ago, CarefreeWritingsontheWall said:

A small suggestion, for those of you who see your letter writers more regularly, would be to ask them if they've heard anything or been contacted by programs. I've received informal news through my supervisor personally.

This is really good advice that I'll second. I have heard that it is not unusual for admissions committees to contact letter writers, so I think this is a better avenue to pursue than contacting the department so early on in the notification period. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by wb3060