How negatively will this impact my applications?

[TakeruK]

Just a thought: the other day at the doctor the nurse asked me if I am ever mistaken for a younger person. She said that I looked like a teenager...do you think that my appearance could be affecting what my profs are saying, or is that way off?

I don't think appearance could be the main basis behind what your professors are saying.  Your professors know that the admissions committee will not actually see what you look like. Also, you said before (and in another thread, I think) that your professors are saying you are intellectually mature but lacking in social/life skills. So I think you already have your answer of why they think you need more time before graduate school. 

Of course, people have opinions all the time and it doesn't mean they are right. It's not going to be possible for us here to say whether or not your professors are right. So, it's a matter of how much do you trust the opinion of these two professors, who both said the same thing to you. 

The question we can answer is what we would think if we saw the LOR with that caveat and we're on the admissions committee, it would certainly be a red flag. But as rising_star and fuzzy said, whether or not this will lead to a rejection would depend on the rest of your application. If it's just one sentence in the letter is the only thing that indicates you may not be ready, then I don't think the caveat will affect your final decision strongly. However, if there are other things that support the idea that you may not be socially mature enough for graduate school, then it would likely lead to a rejection. Most schools have way more applicants than positions so why take the risk on you?

I don't think we can decide for you whether or not to apply. I feel that you have talked to many people who know you and you've already received their advice and thoughts. It's now up to you to process all of that and make a decision on what to do. As others pointed out, you could apply to schools alongside the other paths and then see what options are available and then pick one. I do want to stress that it is very important to be "ready" for graduate school in all ways, and intellectual maturity is not enough for success in graduate school. 

[Ilikekitties]

Yes...that sums up what I've been hearing. We'll see what happens/if I get in anywhere...I would be really shocked if I did get in. And I have to apply now for McNair. I'll also be applying for jobs, so whatever happens will be for the best.

Edited October 15, 2015 by LittleCritterB

[fuzzylogician]

Just a thought: the other day at the doctor the nurse asked me if I am ever mistaken for a younger person. She said that I looked like a teenager...do you think that my appearance could be affecting what my profs are saying, or is that way off?

I think you are way off. I think your professors know you (as you yourself say), and they have this opinion because they know you, not because they just glanced at you and decided you look young. I've said this before in another thread, but I'll say it again: I wholeheartedly support the advice to take some time off before committing to grad school, to have a taste of the "real world." Grad school will still be there a year or two from now. 

Good luck with whatever you choose to do. I hope it works out the way you want it to.

[Ilikekitties]

Thanks!

[Ilikekitties]

Lol if I took time off I wouldn't be traveling...whatever I do has to make a decent living wage. Yikes.

[rising_star]

Lol if I took time off I wouldn't be traveling...whatever I do has to make a decent living wage. Yikes.

Have you figured out what you mean by "a decent living wage" yet? There are certainly jobs you could get that involve travel and would let you earn a decent wage, such as being an au pair, a scuba diving or ski instructor, etc. Plenty of people manage to do it (a google search would tell you this) so why couldn't you? There are lots of ways to make a living, you just have to be willing to pursue them.

[Ilikekitties]

I'll think about jobs when all of my grad school apps are in

[rising_star]

I'll think about jobs when all of my grad school apps are in

For some jobs, that will be too late. There are jobs that are basically on the same timeline as grad school apps in that you apply in the fall to start in July or August. But, I guess you're willing to role out things that might interest you. When I was a senior in college, I applied to jobs and MA programs at the same time, since the timelines were similar. YMMV obviously.

[Ilikekitties]

I'm just going by what the career advisor told me - get grad apps in first. I need to get all of my grad apps in before the end of the semester for McNair, and that's taking up a lot of my time right now.

[GradSchoolTruther]

From the responses, I can see why you're LOR writers think you need some time away from academia. You need to be able to think independently to succeed in grad school and not rely on someone else to spoon-feed you information.

[Ilikekitties]

What spoon-fed information am I relying on? Why am I not thinking independently? I already asked this recommender to write for me last Friday - I'm not here to get opinions about whether I should ask her or not. I'm making all of my own decisions in the application process.

[GeoDUDE!]

It will not affect you negatively.

[Ilikekitties]

You don't think so??

[GeoDUDE!]

You don't think so??

I'm just trying to tell you what you want to hear. 

[GradSchoolTruther]

What spoon-fed information am I relying on? Why am I not thinking independently? I already asked this recommender to write for me last Friday - I'm not here to get opinions about whether I should ask her or not. I'm making all of my own decisions in the application process.

We all make our own decisions. No one can decide for us. But you either want to be guided through every step or be validated through every step.

[batcathat]

Ah, the trolls have come out to play....

In all seriousness. If you have a shot at McNair, do it. If you believe in yourself enough that you think you are ready to go to grad school, then definitely do it. Professors may teach you, but they don't know you as well as you know you, and they don't always know what you're capable of. This is going to sound ridiculous, but believe in yourself and ignore anyone who tries to tear you down. If the professor doesn't think you should go to grad school, schedule a meeting with that person and ask them why they think that and emphasize that you are not them. From your earlier posts, it sounds like your professor is reflecting on to you a bad experience that they had in grad school because they didn't take time off. And if they still say you need to take time off, find someone else or ask professors outside your department. I didn't take time off and I know now that it was absolutely the right decision for me, so it is possible. 

You can do it!

[Ilikekitties]

Thank you soooo much! I feel so lost right now....when the time comes to make a decision, I'll spend a ton of time doing so.

[Ilikekitties]

This is what a good friend of mine wrote about the caveat:

"I think the caveat is probably more common than you think, and the plus side is that the schools you're applying for will know they're getting a complete picture. You'll have two solid positive recommendations and one more balanced one--and that tells them that they're not *just* getting to see your good stuff. And if one professor thinking you should wait a while is the only bad thing anyone's got to say, I feel like that's not a deal-breaker. It also makes you seem extra driven because your professors don't know if you're ready, but you're putting in the time and energy anyway because you're that interested."

Do grad schools ask recommenders to comment on weaknesses? No one's perfect...

[GradSchoolTruther]

Ah, the trolls have come out to play....

In all seriousness. If you have a shot at McNair, do it. If you believe in yourself enough that you think you are ready to go to grad school, then definitely do it. Professors may teach you, but they don't know you as well as you know you, and they don't always know what you're capable of. This is going to sound ridiculous, but believe in yourself and ignore anyone who tries to tear you down. If the professor doesn't think you should go to grad school, schedule a meeting with that person and ask them why they think that and emphasize that you are not them. From your earlier posts, it sounds like your professor is reflecting on to you a bad experience that they had in grad school because they didn't take time off. And if they still say you need to take time off, find someone else or ask professors outside your department. I didn't take time off and I know now that it was absolutely the right decision for me, so it is possible. 

You can do it!

Why is it trollish to tell the truth here? Two of the OP's LOR writers think the OP needs time away from academia to improve their social/life skills. That isn't something to gloss over and say "Their advice is meaningless. You can do it!" The one thing I've noticed about these boards is the lack of telling people what they need to hear. Grad school is not a place for people to find themselves.

[Ilikekitties]

To clarify: 1/3 recommenders will have the caveat. The other prof was a potential recommender.

Edited October 18, 2015 by LittleCritterB

[Pumpkin27]

One thing that worries me about the professor is your earlier statement that the professor has been telling you for years that she wishes she hadn't gone straight to graduate school. I had a professor who literally stopped talking to me once I (politely and with support from other professors) declined to follow the path he had suggested! Professors aren't infalliable and some can fixtate on you not "making their mistakes," especially, in my experience, younger professors. 

[Ilikekitties]

Woah...

[Pumpkin27]

Woah...

Yup, so that totally colors my perception of your situation, because I've had some startlingly self absorbed professors. In some way, advising can be like parenting- at a certain point you have to say "okay, spread your wings little student and give it a try," and just like with parents, sometimes they have trouble letting go!

[farflung]

Why is it trollish to tell the truth here? Two of the OP's LOR writers think the OP needs time away from academia to improve their social/life skills. That isn't something to gloss over and say "Their advice is meaningless. You can do it!" The one thing I've noticed about these boards is the lack of telling people what they need to hear. Grad school is not a place for people to find themselves.

Agreed. I would listen to your professors, LittleCritterB, if they are sensing that you're not ready.

[EdNeuroGrl]

She thinks that I'm mature academically, or why else would she want me to spend time outside of academia? Another potential recommender said that I am very intellectually mature for a BA, but she thinks that I need some time to be an adult outside of a school setting. Makes sense. She said that the vast majority of undergrads are not ready for PhD programs, so it's nothing personal.

The 3rd recommender that I did ask (with the caveat) knows my work the best, so that's why I chose her. I have a very high GPA and I've done very well in her classes.

This may have been said already in different words but I would consider this a red flag. A caveat is expected in a LOR, but usually it is one that is in some way a strength or something quirky, not something that will make the addcom think maybe you aren't ready for grad school....

Another consideration is that "academically mature" is far from "practically mature" It sounds to me like you are getting this feedback from more than one person. So maybe you should consider it.

The FIRST TWO times I applied for PhD programs I was summarily shut down (no follow-ups no interviews nothing), had letter-writers that were great, but ultimately I had NO idea what I was getting myself into. I also didn't have any idea what the grad school thing was really about. My research interests were pretty unrefined and I was entirely out of touch.

I then took two years off of academia to work (I should have really pushed for a job as an RA or other sciency-worker type so I could work AND get some pubs out) and what I came back with was a fairly solid knowledge of what is right for me. What sort of work I can do and what sort I can't. I also grew a LOT there are parts of me that I would have never developed if I went straight from undergrad to a grad program. After those two years I couldn't stand the lack of intellectual engagement that I was working under in my job and I knew for certain that I needed to be doing research and academia for my career. I applied to a master's program and got in. That decision was because after looking at the profiles of grad students getting into programs I was planning on applying to, I noticed they either had 4 or 5 pubs or a master's degree. So for me to be competitive I needed more than a bachelors. 

Have you looked at some of the CV's of the students going into programs you are planning to apply for?

Ultimately, your recommenders may be saying in some subtle sub-text-y way is that they will back your decision but they really think you won't be competitive enough right NOW. In a number of fields it has become so common for students to take a year or two off to work as an RA or other position associated with research that unless the undergrad has independent research experience and publications, they don't really have a chance. This hasn't gotten into social sciences just yet, but as frustrating as it sounds your prof is correct, the VAST majority of undergrad seniors are completely unprepared in a social-emotional (making decisions that will impact the rest of my life) sense to deal with what is required of them in graduate school.

Another thing to consider is context. I've done a bunch of work in education, and a number of the individuals who I have worked with are cross-overs with education and anthropology. These folks really are not going to be persuaded by an applicant who doesn't have hands-on teaching experience in addition to research experience, and it is a really utilitarian decision. People who don't have SOME experience in the challenges of teaching and the challenges of research have literally no clue what they are getting into and are going to be unequipped to handle the problems that the field is currently dealing with.

If you are getting this from a few fronts then you may want to SERIOUSLY consider it. OR perhaps, apply to grad programs, but also start looking for (and volunteering your time) labs that, given a couple months of you working with them, might hire you on if you don't get into any programs. 

 

I hope this is helpful, is it at all possible to ask the person if they think it is something about you specifically or if it is something that they'd say to all undergrads going straight for grad school?