How difficult is it really to get into NYU's English MA program?

[SarahJessica]

Any current NYU english masters students feel free to hand over some expertise 

[dazedandbemused]

Hey! Old school part-time lurker here. I'm not and never have been enrolled in the NYU MA program, but I was accepted there in 2013 and did visit with their grad students on one occasion. I have many thoughts about the program (none particularly great) so would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[heliogabalus]

Well, what were your thoughts on it?

[Yanaka]

On 15/12/2016 at 10:10 AM, dazedandbemused said:

Hey! Old school part-time lurker here. I'm not and never have been enrolled in the NYU MA program, but I was accepted there in 2013 and did visit with their grad students on one occasion. I have many thoughts about the program (none particularly great) so would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Definitely wanna know more now

[dazedandbemused]

Ha, sorry to keep you all in suspense! I've been doing my winter travel and don't check this site nearly enough as it is.

So, I applied to PhD programs in the 2012 and 2013 cycles, and in Spring 2012 (I had my math slightly off in the first post!) I applied to NYUs PhD and was instead accepted to their MA. Being the bright-eyed and ignorant college senior I was, I thought it sounded like a great opportunity, but the price made me want to check it out first. I visited on a day when the MA students would meet up in the department for chat and coffee, and some of the things that I found unsettling only make sense in serious hindsight. 

To be clear, I don't blame anyone who does go to the program. It can be really hard to get honest information about whether paying for an English MA from a top program is worth the money, but I think the answer is unequivocally no. I met students that day who were excited to be studying in a wonderful program, but were also deeply stressed by the two or three jobs they were working to live in Manhattan, or the long commute they were making to keep costs down. Most of them had dreams of going on to a PhD, and the woman who showed me around most of the day was hopeful about her waitlist position at Harvard.

I also noticed that there wasn't really any effort on the department's part to have me interact with any faculty, which I think speaks a lot to the value that they place on their MA students. Most of the students I spoke to would talk about their advisor and somehow intimate that the advisor was "just so busy". FYI, a busy advisor is good, but they should never be too busy for you if they care about your career. And nobody seemed willing to admit that $100,000 total in tuition over two years was an absurd amount of money. I didn't really understand the job market and the very real devaluation of the humanities, but I did know that that wasn't a deal I was willing to take.

I ended up getting an offer of a one year post-bac fellowship from UPitt, and it was, IMO, the perfect example of what academia should be doing. They paid me for the pleasure of taking graduate seminars for the first time, and I had a wonderful advisor who was also part of the WGS program that vetted all of my PhD app materials, and gave me excellent advice about how to tell if something is a good offer. If they don't want to invest their time or their money in you, then it's just not worth it. I'm now an ABD 4th year at UT Austin, and I can promise you that I never would have had anywhere near this success if people hadn't invested time and money into getting me here. A PhD is an uphill battle, and your program shouldn't make it worse.

[Yanaka]

Thank you for your story! It may have given me a plan B.2. if I don't get into any PhD program! Hopefully, NYU's M.A. program has improved, since. 

[chocomuffins]

Any new / other input about this program? This year they offered to connect you with the professors for questions. But so far I’ve not been able to find any info about the typical class size, acceptance rate etc so I still wonder if all / most PhD rejections lead to MA acceptances. 

I’m an international applicant applying straight from undergrad (0a/7r/1w mphil program) so I honestly do feel underprepared (and kinda dumb lol). That said I’m not sure I wanna go into debt for it if it’s not even a somewhat competitive program that can convince me I might have a chance to do well in academia, and that my intended research is something more (useful) than "something I'm passionate about". (Edit: I should also add that I didn't feel it was that great of a match, which added to my suspicion...) 

Any insight would be much appreciated!

Edited March 13, 2019 by chocomuffins

[wildsurmise]

I was wondering this as well. It seems like their acceptance email is trying pretty hard to sell the prestige of getting into their program... but it almost feels like a MAPH situation. 

[chocomuffins]

Found the class size on the People page (don't know how I could've overlooked it ?) – 26 this year, 33 the last, which is comparable to the MA at Boston College. Not sure if this changes anything, though. 

[trytostay]

I think NYU is a phenomenal program. I mean, I’m obviously heavily considered getting my PhD there! I think it’s very competitive and selective. However, the fact of the matter is I’m just not convinced an unfunded MA from anywhere is worth it. I think NYU’s MA would be moreso worth it than, say, Chicago’s MAPH, because at least it’s an MA in English. But I think the general idea is that an MA from a prestigious program will make you a better PhD applicant and I just don’t agree with that. I think taking another year, or even another two years, to do independent research and refine your interests and scholarship is more helpful. I don’t personally think people are getting turned down from places because they don’t have their MA. I think people are getting turned down because they didn’t do proper research into “fit,” they haven’t sold themselves as strong PhD candidates, or other bonkers and random and subjective reasons we’ll never be able to come up with. With that said, I don’t think getting an MA would solve any of those things. This field is not worth going into debt over. There are too many uncertainties and there is no stability for anyone. If you’ve been offered a spot in NYU’s MA, I think you can take that as a sign that you’re on the right path, you might just need some extra time to figure things out. And that’s okay! But don’t confuse that with thinking you aren’t good enough and you need to go five figures in debt to make yourself better. That’s just not true and I feel angry that so many institutions are banking on young applicants feeling this way. 

[Warelin]

I think it's important to remember that prestige and "admissions standards" varies greatly between a PHD and an MA program. NYU's English PHD is a very competitive program. However, I imagine their MA program is considerably less competitive and selective to get into because they don't provide a full tuition waiver and a stipend to offset costs of living in NYC. It is important to remember that no college can guarantee that you'll be admitted into a certain (or any) Ph.D. program. A program's reputation at the MA level is different from what it is at the Ph.D. level. Those in academia are more aware of the reputation of different programs at different levels.

[chocomuffins]

7 hours ago, Warelin said:

I think it's important to remember that prestige and "admissions standards" varies greatly between a PHD and an MA program. NYU's English PHD is a very competitive program. However, I imagine their MA program is considerably less competitive and selective to get into because they don't provide a full tuition waiver and a stipend to offset costs of living in NYC. It is important to remember that no college can guarantee that you'll be admitted into a certain (or any) Ph.D. program. A program's reputation at the MA level is different from what it is at the Ph.D. level. Those in academia are more aware of the reputation of different programs at different levels.

Obviously it's not that surprising that MA programs are twice if not more the size of the PhD class and easier to get into – after all they're meant for people who aren't / don't feel they're quite ready for PhD work (and those who don't aim to continue on to PhD at all). I was just concerned that people are admitted indiscriminately, as in some non-US programs that I know of where it gets so crowded you'll have to wonder if the school is really trying to educate and train people with some potential (for PhD and otherwise) instead of just cashing off of the completely clueless. If it's the former, I can try to see if I can find external funding and then apply for their TIP program. If it's the latter, I'm staying home. Tbh at this point, I have reasonable doubt about my potential as an academic and the worth of my research interests so if I can eventually afford to go for the MA, it won't be about the possibility of a future PhD or a career in academia.