MA Title

[Janeway01]

Hi-

 

I began an online MA program through Adams State Universtiy in CO last year. They just announced that they are changing the name to a MA in Humanities with an Emphasis in American History. However, all thirty hours of coursework is in history and there is still a thesis requirement with a defense on campus.  My question is, what is the likely hood of obtaining a job in a history field (museum, community college, government etc...) with this degree title? On its surface, does it have greater potential to turn people off?

[ctg7w6]

On its face, I would say yes in terms of academic jobs. I can't speak to museum jobs. As far as government jobs (which I have some experience), it kind of depends... Many job openings specify a particular degree title, but they often also list "30 graduate credits in history" (or some variation of the number of credits and field).

The degree title is rather unimportant in the government sector unless it is a science field. Honestly, I don't think it will hurt you much for government jobs (GS jobs).

Academic jobs... It's going to be kind of tough getting a job at a community college these days with an MA, but it is possible. I think it will depend on how you market yourself (i.e. highlight that every course was history). 

There is also still a stigma for online schools, so it depends on whether the person reading the application realizes it is an online school. By the way, I'm in the same situation... online MA (though called history) with a thesis, defense, and residency on campus. I'm going the PhD route, so I am still waiting to see the effect that the school has, but my backup is another government job and I seem to be quite okay for that in this regard.

[dr. t]

I am a Bachelor of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies with a focus in Medieval Studies, a Master of Theological Studies in the History of Christianity, and a regular old Master of History. The absurdity of these titles has not affected my career, as far as I can tell.

I do think that @ctg7w6 is correct, though. If you have a problem, it's because you have an online degree from a minor state university, not because of the particular wording on that degree.

[Janeway01]

Thank you both for the input. I figured I was over thinking the title, but it is an annoyance. I want the degree to say 'History.' I could always switch to another program I suppose, but what a hassle getting credits transferred. I figured going the online route would be somewhat detrimental, but it's the only real option available that allows me to work full time as well. Also, couldn't beat the price at $600/course! I guess I will just have to make the resume reflect the reality of the program, and not rely on the name/basic details. The degree won't say 'online' though, and while I won't lie, I won't make a point to announce it was online either.

[dr. t]

On 12/17/2016 at 5:12 PM, Janeway01 said:

I figured going the online route would be somewhat detrimental, but it's the only real option available that allows me to work full time as well. Also, couldn't beat the price at $600/course! I guess I will just have to make the resume reflect the reality of the program, and not rely on the name/basic details. The degree won't say 'online' though, and while I won't lie, I won't make a point to announce it was online either.

I want to preface this by saying I'm not trying to pick on you. This response is towards the large number of this sort of post that are around the forum. And I also want to say that I got my BA degree from night school after flunking out of a traditional school twice, so I know about working schooling at the same time.

To be clear, there are two factors against you: that it's an online degree, and that it's from a minor state university. If you take an MA in history, you've either got way too much money and spare time or you're trying to set yourself up for a PhD program. For the former, who cares what it says on the degree? For the latter, the prestige of your MA program and the prestige of your letter writers matters a great deal to the final result. The online degree hurts you, even if "online" doesn't appear on your application, because your letters won't be as good as someone who had regular, face to face interactions with their professors, and because online courses tend to be taught by relatively junior faculty. Moreover, more prestigious programs usually come with some form of funding, so that you don't have to work full time, which in turn leads to stronger work and a better application. And so $600 a course isn't worth it if it doesn't get you into a good (i.e. top-20) PhD program, which it, to be brutally honest, probably will not. But the $1000 a course I paid at Harvard Divinity (after partial funding) netted me an Ivy admission, so the investment was worth it.

Neil Gaiman once wrote, "Sometimes I suspect that we build our traps ourselves, then we back into them, pretending amazement the while." I've found this to be generally true, and particularly so with the pursuit of higher education. The "real option" was not to go. It often is.

[Concordia]

If you did history, perhaps you had a course with Prof A?  Also ALB, who then went on to the Big House for his PhD.  Great professor-- and he wrote me a rec after a night class that got me into a master's at Cambridge, so I'm feeling the love there.

[dr. t]

I didn't, actually! I wanted to, but I focused on courses in my subfield (medieval) instead. I ended up doing most of my coursework through the SSP, etc.

[Janeway01]

While I didn't set out to debate the merits of an online degree, nor the reputation of Adams State, I will respond just to add clarity. There are several respected universities that offer fully online degrees and even Harvard offers a partial online MA (3 classes must be on campus). I know online degrees are not as respected as the traditional way, but after researching the various programs, several stood out as both academically sound and affordable. The entry requirements are the same (give or take a couple), and  the program requirements are the same. Like most things in life, you get what you give. You could go to a ivy school and not be successful, or a minor state university and be very successful. With Adams, though, the courses are taught by a variety of professors from top schools using live lectures that enable real time interaction. Professors from Columbia, Harvard, UMass@Boston, George Washington, City University of NY and many others lead the classes and in my limited experience are available for conversation outside of the lecture. Therefore, developing a relationship may be more difficult, but doable. You also have a professor at Adams to guide your thesis work. While the chances of them being in your field are slim, it's better than being totally on your own. That is the give and take in an online program. Not necessarily worse than a traditional program if you put in the work. 

 

 

For me personally I don't plan on going on to a Ph.D. But, getting a MA isn't always as useless unless getting a Ph.D as people seem to think. It will give me an immediate raise and will increase the amount of future raises at my current job. It will also open me up for administrative jobs in the school system, government jobs outside of public education, and potential jobs at local community colleges. For approximately $6,000 total, it's not too bad an investment-minor state university or not.

 

 

[dr. t]

I don't really think anything you've put there responds to what I've said; you've no need to justify yourself to me. And in case it wasn't made clear above, my undergraduate degree is from Harvard Extension, which you reference. I took a good chunk of my coursework online there, and know both the benefits and downfalls. The above is lessons learned from experience, and not me trying to shit all over your hopes and dreams for giggles.

With respect to your point of the utility of the MA, I agree, and I was being a bit flippant with my binary. But the benefits you mention are such regardless of the particular wording of your MA. Given that subject, I focused my advice on the PhD. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by telkanuru

[Sigaba]

On 12/19/2016 at 10:00 AM, telkanuru said:

I want to preface this by saying I'm not trying to pick on you. This response is towards the large number of this sort of post that are around the forum. And I also want to say that I got my BA degree from night school after flunking out of a traditional school twice, so I know about working schooling at the same time.

To be clear, there are two factors against you: that it's an online degree, and that it's from a minor state university. If you take an MA in history, you've either got way too much money and spare time or you're trying to set yourself up for a PhD program. For the former, who cares what it says on the degree? For the latter, the prestige of your MA program and the prestige of your letter writers matters a great deal to the final result. The online degree hurts you, even if "online" doesn't appear on your application, because your letters won't be as good as someone who had regular, face to face interactions with their professors, and because online courses tend to be taught by relatively junior faculty. Moreover, more prestigious programs usually come with some form of funding, so that you don't have to work full time, which in turn leads to stronger work and a better application. And so $600 a course isn't worth it if it doesn't get you into a good (i.e. top-20) PhD program, which it, to be brutally honest, probably will not. But the $1000 a course I paid at Harvard Divinity (after partial funding) netted me an Ivy admission, so the investment was worth it.

Neil Gaiman once wrote, "Sometimes I suspect that we build our traps ourselves, then we back into them, pretending amazement the while." I've found this to be generally true, and particularly so with the pursuit of higher education. The "real option" was not to go. It often is.

@telkanuru This post captures both the best and worst of what you bring to this BB. In regards to the latter, your humility is a trait that is refreshing, endearing, and respectable. But I sometimes wonder if it gets in your way. Your degrees don't just lend you prestige because they have Harvard on them. Your degrees also lend Harvard prestige because they have your name on them.

[dr. t]

I'll believe that after I get the TT job, maybe 

[Janeway01]

21 hours ago, telkanuru said:

I don't really think anything you've put there responds to what I've said; you've no need to justify yourself to me. And in case it wasn't made clear above, my undergraduate degree is from Harvard Extension, which you reference. I took a good chunk of my coursework online there, and know both the benefits and downfalls. The above is lessons learned from experience, and not me trying to shit all over your hopes and dreams for giggles.

With respect to your point of the utility of the MA, I agree, and I was being a bit flippant with my binary. But the benefits you mention are such regardless of the particular wording of your MA. Given that subject, I focused my advice on the PhD. 

Oh please rest assured I was not justifying my life choices to you, only seeking to add clairity to your narrow view online degrees. 

 

Actually what I wrote, answered each of your initial challenges: relationship building, faculty stature, and cost v. benefit. I explained this particular program allows for developing relationships with leading professors from many highly respected institutions if you put in the effort. I also explained that the $6,000 price works out to be a good investment when compared to a traditional program with no funding.  You chose to focus your response on the presumption that I was going for a Ph.D, perhaps due to your self admitted binary of views on people with MAs in History (one shared by many). I,however, never mentioned getting a Ph.D. 

Finally, I'll end my participation in this thread by rititerating a previous point- you could go to an ivy institution and not be successful and go to a minor state institution and be successful. 

[dr. t]

23 minutes ago, Janeway01 said:

you could go to an ivy institution and not be successful and go to a minor state institution and be successful. 

This is the crux of the matter, I think. And of course you can. But when you confuse possibility for probability, you tend to end up with problems.

To repeat what I said above: if you have a problem, it's because you have an online degree from a minor state university, not because of the particular wording on that degree.

I am happy you feel confident in your choices. I hope you continue to have cause to do so.

Edited December 22, 2016 by telkanuru

[Calgacus]

On 12/21/2016 at 8:33 PM, telkanuru said:

This is the crux of the matter, I think. And of course you can. But when you confuse possibility for probability, you tend to end up with problems.

To repeat what I said above: if you have a problem, it's because you have an online degree from a minor state university, not because of the particular wording on that degree.

I am happy you feel confident in your choices. I hope you continue to have cause to do so.

What @telkanuru says here is spot on. And I don't think it's meant to be accusatory or pessimistic about your life choices. It's just a reality that is the more accurate answer/reframing to your initial question.

On 12/20/2016 at 7:08 PM, Janeway01 said:

For me personally I don't plan on going on to a Ph.D. But, getting a MA isn't always as useless unless getting a Ph.D as people seem to think. It will give me an immediate raise and will increase the amount of future raises at my current job. It will also open me up for administrative jobs in the school system, government jobs outside of public education, and potential jobs at local community colleges.

@Janeway01 I would also gently advise against buying in too fully about what a terminal MA will provide in the way of job prospects. I had a terminal MA, and while it was not from a high prestige program, it was a traditional program from a major state school that was fully funded. I assumed that this would qualify me for more teaching jobs (with higher guaranteed pay), museum/public history jobs, federal jobs, and higher ed admin jobs. I can tell you that in my experience, it barely earned me a single interview in each of those fields, let alone a job. The state of the over-saturated academic market means that many PhDs are settling for community college jobs, and increasingly looking to break into "alt-ac" fields like the others mentioned. This means that someone with an MA must then compete with both PhDs (who have more specialized education) and BAs (who have less education but have gained a couple years full time experience and networking by being in the workforce instead of in school). Personally, I found there was little room to make my MA shine given the competition. Ultimately I ended up going back for the PhD, which I had sort of intended all along. But the fact that I struggled so much finding a solid career with my MA sped up that process a bit.

Like I said, I don't say this to be negative. I just think terminal M.A.'s really oversell their marketability, particularly those that are unfunded and are looking to make tuition money. And of course this doesn't mean that nobody with an MA will find a job. I would just caution that for as awful as the academic job market is, the market in "alt-ac" fields like those you mention are not vast improvements. It sounds like you're already working and have been assured of a raise if you get your MA, which is nice. But if you plan on changing careers, it would be helpful to do as much networking and as many internships as you possibly can while your in your MA. Chances are those will be vastly more helpful on the market than whatever title they put on your degree.

If you're interested, here's a controversial article that the Chronicle ran last year. It has it's flaws, to be sure, and I don't think it should really be taken literally. But I think it's worth a look.

Best of luck with your degree and your future plans!

Edited December 25, 2016 by Calgacus