The Rotation Conversation

[Kaede]

The process has officially begun... I haven't made a decision yet, but I'm pretty sure I know where I want to be, so I have started making a full list of faculty that I'd want to work with. I am about to start sending emails to set up appointments to meet up with these faculty and discuss the possibility of rotating in their lab and potentially becoming a graduate student.

I have no experience with this obviously, so I'd love to get information about the best way to approach this conversation. How can I maximize the information I get out of these conversations? What kind of questions would be good to ask?

[colorandlight]

Are you going to meet with them in person? I assume you'd already interviewed, but I think meeting them in person is a good call if its not a huge distance for you.

In my situation, the school I plan to go to is a 12 hour drive away and I'm pretty broke right now, so I'm just relying on emails and maybe calling them if it gets to that. My first choice (UNC BBSP) hasn't gotten back to me yet, but I assume based on how the interviews went that I'll be accepted. The only caveat to that is that I can't really email professors right now to talk about rotations since I'm not accepted yet, even though I've seen all of my other choices and gotten all of my other offers, so my mind is almost made up. For me, the only way I won't go to UNC if I get in is if both of my top 2 of the 4-5 professors I want to work with can't let me rotate, but as I've said I can't really ask one of them details about a rotation until I get in (I actually tried doing this since my mind is made up, but they said that we'd talk once I've been accepted). I'd be really scared of committing to a school without knowing if the people I want to work with can take me in their lab.

I'm not really sure what I'd say in person, but I'd say in your email to get their attention you should say why you want to work with them. In my case, I was moderately interested in the subject area of their work (even less so than some other things I've been more interested in), very interested the disease state they work on, and I really wanted to get to try to work with their model organism, so I mentioned all of these things that make me think I'd be a good fit. I didn't mention this, but I also thought that the professor would be a good mentor for me based on how the interview went.

If you haven't met the professor yet I'd probably ask them what direction the lab is going on the next few years while you'll be at the school, what is their mentoring style/expectation of hours like, will they let you take classes/TA if you want, what sort of things are their students working on, what sort of small project would you work on for a rotation, what sort of day-to-day techniques do they do (ie. if you despise PCR but love flow, maybe don't join that lab?) and most importantly, if they have funding to take you on as a full time student for the rest of the PhD if you really enjoy your rotation there. The last part varies depending on schools, ie. UNC won't let rotate in a lab that doesn't have the funding to take you full time from a rotation, but I've heard of other people from other schools getting told that they probably wouldn't be able to stay in the lab after a rotation and letting them rotate anyway, or hiring a postdoc over a grad student instead with that funding at the end of a rotation.

[hippopotamus]

will students usually email to set up rotations this early?

[cmykrgb]

I emailed my poi about rotations since we were in an email chain before and after I got accepted. He said we can talk once I settled in grad school. So I just have been waiting. Otherwise I wouldn't start inquiring rotations that early.

Edited March 9, 2017 by cmykrgb

[colorandlight]

Oh the only reason I'm trying to figure out rotations this early is because I want to do a summer rotation. A lot of schools have rotation info sessions in the fall for faculty looking for rotation students though.

[Proteostasis Aficionado]

So for those starting rotations in late August, when is the best time to start contacting PIs? I know whose labs I would like to rotate in, but I don't know if it's too early to start sending emails

[Kaede]

On 3/9/2017 at 7:21 AM, colorandlight said:

Are you going to meet with them in person? I assume you'd already interviewed, but I think meeting them in person is a good call if its not a huge distance for you.

In my situation, the school I plan to go to is a 12 hour drive away and I'm pretty broke right now, so I'm just relying on emails and maybe calling them if it gets to that. My first choice (UNC BBSP) hasn't gotten back to me yet, but I assume based on how the interviews went that I'll be accepted. The only caveat to that is that I can't really email professors right now to talk about rotations since I'm not accepted yet, even though I've seen all of my other choices and gotten all of my other offers, so my mind is almost made up. For me, the only way I won't go to UNC if I get in is if both of my top 2 of the 4-5 professors I want to work with can't let me rotate, but as I've said I can't really ask one of them details about a rotation until I get in (I actually tried doing this since my mind is made up, but they said that we'd talk once I've been accepted). I'd be really scared of committing to a school without knowing if the people I want to work with can take me in their lab.

I'm not really sure what I'd say in person, but I'd say in your email to get their attention you should say why you want to work with them. In my case, I was moderately interested in the subject area of their work (even less so than some other things I've been more interested in), very interested the disease state they work on, and I really wanted to get to try to work with their model organism, so I mentioned all of these things that make me think I'd be a good fit. I didn't mention this, but I also thought that the professor would be a good mentor for me based on how the interview went.

If you haven't met the professor yet I'd probably ask them what direction the lab is going on the next few years while you'll be at the school, what is their mentoring style/expectation of hours like, will they let you take classes/TA if you want, what sort of things are their students working on, what sort of small project would you work on for a rotation, what sort of day-to-day techniques do they do (ie. if you despise PCR but love flow, maybe don't join that lab?) and most importantly, if they have funding to take you on as a full time student for the rest of the PhD if you really enjoy your rotation there. The last part varies depending on schools, ie. UNC won't let rotate in a lab that doesn't have the funding to take you full time from a rotation, but I've heard of other people from other schools getting told that they probably wouldn't be able to stay in the lab after a rotation and letting them rotate anyway, or hiring a postdoc over a grad student instead with that funding at the end of a rotation.

I will hopefully be meeting them in person in a few weeks, but I'd like to send them an in person email first. There are some PIs I have already set up phone calls with but have no idea how the conversation will go... so thank you so much for the tangible questions you provided!

[shikkui]

How do you know if your school does the rotation system?  I just can't seem to find any info about it...

[Kaede]

2 hours ago, shikkui said:

How do you know if your school does the rotation system?  I just can't seem to find any info about it...

It usually says it in the program requirements. For example, taken from UC Irvine CMB's website:

"Research Rotations

In order to become familiar with the research opportunities available in the program, and to obtain technical training in appropriate areas, students are required to complete two laboratory rotations, each lasting one quarter, in different laboratories during the first year. Three are recommended in order to increase exposure to diverse research topics and experimental approaches. The Program Director provides incoming students with a list of laboratories hosting rotation students, and additional guidance will be provided by the CMB faculty advisors during orientation week."

[shikkui]

4 hours ago, Kaede said:

It usually says it in the program requirements. For example, taken from UC Irvine CMB's website:

"Research Rotations

In order to become familiar with the research opportunities available in the program, and to obtain technical training in appropriate areas, students are required to complete two laboratory rotations, each lasting one quarter, in different laboratories during the first year. Three are recommended in order to increase exposure to diverse research topics and experimental approaches. The Program Director provides incoming students with a list of laboratories hosting rotation students, and additional guidance will be provided by the CMB faculty advisors during orientation week."

Ah...  I see.  I don't think I'm going to have that.  I think my program specifically recruits through interested PIs.

[BigThomason51]

On 3/11/2017 at 4:41 PM, Proteostasis Aficionado said:

So for those starting rotations in late August, when is the best time to start contacting PIs? I know whose labs I would like to rotate in, but I don't know if it's too early to start sending emails

 

I told outright to one of my PIs during my interview that I wanted to do a rotation with them if I were to be accepted into their program.  I then followed up with a thank you email, and they reiterated that they'd love to have me as a rotation student in the future.  I'll be sending a follow-up email around maybe June-July to confirm a spot.  

I don't think it's too early to at least tell them you are interested. 

[lizie.johnson]

On March 9, 2017 at 10:21 AM, colorandlight said:

In my situation, the school I plan to go to is a 12 hour drive away and I'm pretty broke right now, so I'm just relying on emails and maybe calling them if it gets to that. My first choice (UNC BBSP) hasn't gotten back to me yet, but I assume based on how the interviews went that I'll be accepted. The only caveat to that is that I can't really email professors right now to talk about rotations since I'm not accepted yet, even though I've seen all of my other choices and gotten all of my other offers, so my mind is almost made up. For me, the only way I won't go to UNC if I get in is if both of my top 2 of the 4-5 professors I want to work with can't let me rotate, but as I've said I can't really ask one of them details about a rotation until I get in (I actually tried doing this since my mind is made up, but they said that we'd talk once I've been accepted). I'd be really scared of committing to a school without knowing if the people I want to work with can take me in their lab.

@colorandlight were you accepted to BBSP?  That's where I am going in the fall, and I'm unsure if I should just work on setting up my first rotation or if I should go ahead and try to set up all three.

[colorandlight]

38 minutes ago, lizie.johnson said:

@colorandlight were you accepted to BBSP?  That's where I am going in the fall, and I'm unsure if I should just work on setting up my first rotation or if I should go ahead and try to set up all three.

Yeah so here's the thing. I still don't know!

i emailed BBSP since they said mid march at the interviews and they gave me an incredibly vague email saying that they hadn't made all decisions yet and that I could expect to hear back by early April..

At this point, while UNC was originally my first choice, it honestly sounds like I'm a backup in case enough people reject their offers for their ~90 seat goal, and to be honest, that feels bad.

Anyway if I did get in, my top choice PI here, I want to make sure that I can secure a rotation in his lab before I commit to the school. He takes students from 3 different departments, so I'm worried that there could be competition, especially since I've been unable to discuss this with him until I actually get an acceptance, so other people could have in theory taken all of his rotation spots.

BTW, I just posted another thread which discusses my decision making process.

[lizie.johnson]

1 hour ago, colorandlight said:

Yeah so here's the thing. I still don't know!

i emailed BBSP since they said mid march at the interviews and they gave me an incredibly vague email saying that they hadn't made all decisions yet and that I could expect to hear back by early April..

At this point, while UNC was originally my first choice, it honestly sounds like I'm a backup in case enough people reject their offers for their ~90 seat goal, and to be honest, that feels bad.

Anyway if I did get in, my top choice PI here, I want to make sure that I can secure a rotation in his lab before I commit to the school. He takes students from 3 different departments, so I'm worried that there could be competition, especially since I've been unable to discuss this with him until I actually get an acceptance, so other people could have in theory taken all of his rotation spots.

BTW, I just posted another thread which discusses my decision making process.

Well, I hope you hear back soon!! When did you interview?

You could possibly reach out directly to the PI and just reiterate that you're really interested in his research and would love to rotate in his lab pending your acceptance.

[colorandlight]

7 minutes ago, lizie.johnson said:

Well, I hope you hear back soon!! When did you interview?

You could possibly reach out directly to the PI and just reiterate that you're really interested in his research and would love to rotate in his lab pending your acceptance.

The very first interview weekend, January 26th I believe.

I did reach out to the PI about it a few weeks ago and he said that we could touch base when I found out about my acceptance.

I'm still pretty split on the matter of which school to go to, my other option, the location isn't as cool and hip as chapel hill, but the students in the department really truly support eachother, and I don't think I'd get quite the same camraderie at UNC, even though the students seem pretty happy there.

[lizie.johnson]

Crossing my fingers for you that you hear back soon @colorandlight!  Let me know when you hear back.