Some much needed advice for a person without a BA in Pscyh looking at Grad School

[Thoth]

I graduated from Fordham in 2014 with a Degree in Philosophy (GPA 3.6) and I'm here to ask some dumb questions.

I'm very interested in psychology and want to pursue a PhD somewhere in Social Psychology. The only problem is I'm not exactly sure how to move forward. I have no research experience, no published work, and only an Intro Psych and Statistics class to my name. For the time being, particularly due to financial circumstances, I don't see myself moving out of NYC.

I've been considering getting a Master's from NYU or Hunter, as I feel like I don't have the chops to really compete with other prospective students. NYU is outrageously expensive, but there's some faculty there that really excites me and I feel it would set me up for a good chance at a PhD. Hunter is the opposite; much cheaper but only a professor or two I'm interested in working with.

I've also been considering doing the post-bac psychology program at Columbia. This option seems to be somewhere in between the two above; it's very expensive, has seemingly great results, but I also don't get a degree out of it.

Is it possible to work at a research lab without experience and without enrolling in a college? 

Has anyone else had a similar experience, have words of wisdom, or a slap in the face that can bring to back to reality? Any advice or guidance would be appreciated. I feel rather overwhelmed by this whole process.

Thanks much.

[thelionking]

I think it's premature and presumptuous to assume that you "don't have the chops to really compete with other prospective students." How do you know this for sure when you haven't even tried taking a bunch of psychology courses to see what you are capable of accomplishing?  

If you don't have it in you to do the hard work it takes to become a competitive applicant, that's a whole other issue. But the fact that you took the time to post here suggests to me that this is something you would really like to do. I think you should find out the admission requirements of the programs you are interested in, figure out what you are missing, and decide if you are going to commit yourself to working on meeting those requirements so that you can make your dream come true.

If you don't have a research background and you're not a student, I think you'd be able to find a lab you could volunteer at to gain some research experience. The tasks you'll get at first will likely be more administrative. But over time, if your supervisor is happy with the way you work, you should gradually be able to get more responsibilities and extra training.

[dancedementia]

Hey! I was in your same boat. I ended up going for a post-bac program in psychology (online courses) and then the masters degree. First off, a secret: masters degrees are the cash cows of schools. There's not as much government grant funding for them, which means the school gets more $$$ out of you. They don't have to pay you a PhD stipend. They don't need to cater undergraduate student life projects to you.

tl;dr - schools WANT you for their masters programs. It is surprisingly easy to get in.

Because of this, however, I would caution you against pursuing an expensive masters program. I made that mistake - went to Boston University (cost of living comparable to NYC - slightly less actually, tuition comparable to NYU), and the financial burden sucked. I took out $50k in private loans before I realized this was not sustainable, so I jumped ship and am now attending a program in my home state which is 5x cheaper. 

Columbia's post-bac program is great but also harder to get in, unfortunately. I would really push you to consider Hunter or another CUNY campus. Research match doesn't matter *too* much at the masters level, so don't put too much salt in thinking, "Oh, but there's only one professor I really want to work with." Also, what I ended up doing while at Boston University was applying for labs at MIT and Harvard, and they were very willing to let me collaborate cross-campus. So even if you attend a school like Hunter or Queens, there's no one stopping you from volunteering at an NYU lab

> Is it possible to work at a research lab without experience and without enrolling in a college? 

Yes, although you'll probably have to do it on a volunteer basis.

Also keep in mind I'm gunning for clinical/counseling psychology; the social psych world might be a little different, so if anyone can offer more insight, please do!

Edited April 5, 2017 by dancedementia

[C is for Caps Locks]

I'd say the most important thing for you to do would be to gain some research experience. I know for me applying this cycle for Social Psych PhD programs (including NYU), a bit thing that seemed to convince POIs and programs that I was a worthwhile candidate was having several years of experience working with active/well-published Social Psychology faculty members. Having an honors thesis or working on your own projects is also important (showing that you can do your own work/research).

So one good option would be getting a job as an RA or Lab Manager for something like 2 years (showing that you are interested in research and have experience). While paid RA and Lab Manager positions are harder to find, they do exist, and as far as I know they generally don't require you to be a current student (or student at all), since they are just paid positions (so you don't have to enroll into the college).

Given that you're coming from a completely different field a Post-Bac program would probably be a good idea (ideally though one with a heavy focus on research and at least a program viewed as reputable in Social Psych, you don't need the best per say, but you it's useful to have connections indirectly to professors you might want to apply to work with, and the more well-known/quality programs tend to offer this by default).

A masters is also an option, downside is funding, I've met a number of graduate students at my undergrad institution who went and got a masters before getting a PhD (largely because their under grad GPA and/or GRE wasn't quite good enough). However, with that being said, I don't really have the perspective that a masters is neccesary or even desired, it seems more like a potential path when going straight from your undergrad may not be an option (undergrad GPA/GRE isn't high enough, lack of research experience, etc.). The key thing is that if you go to a masters, it has to be a place where you can also get a lot of research experience and ideally do your own research based thesis.

Edited April 5, 2017 by C is for Caps Locks

[Guest joshw4288]

I attended Hunter from 2012-2014 and am now almost finished with my doctorate. I'd be happy to answer any questions about Hunter if you PM me. I worked with Jason Young while I was there. I also know a number of people from Hunter that have made it to respectable Ph.D. programs including Yale, U. of Western Ontario, Fordham, St. Johns University, and Yeshiva. 

 

There is also an old forum on masters as a bridge to the PhD. You may want to check it out: 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by joshw4288

[vaibhavpandey]

On 4/7/2017 at 5:08 AM, joshw4288 said:

I attended Hunter from 2012-2014 and am now almost finished with my doctorate. I'd be happy to answer any questions about Hunter if you PM me. I worked with Jason Young while I was there. I also know a number of people from Hunter that have made it to respectable Ph.D. programs including Yale, U. of Western Ontario, Fordham, St. Johns University, and Yeshiva. 

 

There is also an old forum on masters as a bridge to the PhD. You may want to check it out: 

 

 

Hey, I am glad that somebody is here to answer the questions about CUNY Hunter. I am an international applicant and want to know, on an average how many PhD students are admitted each year in Social welfare?

Thank you

[Sherrinford]

Research experience is one of the most important (if not the most important) things you will need to be accepted into a funded program.You can certainly volunteer in a lab without being a student, however your lack of experience might make it difficult. 

I would make my suggestions based on how certain you are that a career in psychology is what you want to pursue. If you are very serious, you should consider doing a Masters in Psych (one that has an experimental thesis requirement ideally). It is not necessary, but it will give you time to prove you can handle graduate level psych coursework, get involved in research, do a thesis, get letters of rec, and just develop a better sense of what you want to study/research. If you choose to go this route, I would do some research into the average debts incurred by programs such as NYU and Columbia. Great programs, but quite expensive and not necessary for pursuing a PhD when you can attend a different institution and still get quality research experience. 

If you are not sure about psychology or research, perhaps just look into trying to get research experience. Email different research labs, explain your situation and be sincere, maybe you can get your foot in somewhere. Maybe you can take some post-Bach classes in psych to show you can do the work. Then once you're involved in research, you can see if you really like it and continue developing experience to apply to programs. 

[Le Chat]

Since I'm not in Social Psych feel free to take this with a grain of salt. It is possible to work in research without being enrolled in a university, and would potentially be beneficial with a few year's of experience. I also have an undergrad not in Psychology and lacked a lot of pre-requisite courses for doctoral programs, so I would recommend taking pre-reqs along with working in research at the minimum. 

My choice was to do a research masters (plus likely additional research) which includes the pre-requisite courses. I found that in my area, being in academia provides a lot more opportunity for research. There are programs available in Psychological Research that are 1-2 years also.