Advice needed - leaving job for funded MPA

[Revolutionary]

Guys, I need some sincere advice and I'd be really really grateful if you could take out some of your time to guide me.

Before I delve into the back-story, let me summarize the decision that I have to make for Fall 2018:

Leave the safety of my current job at a multi-national corporation to go for a fully-funded master's in USA (MPA at Cornell).

Currently I am 24, 1.5 years out of undergrad, and part of a management trainee program at a pharmaceutical MNC (In my country, this is very competitive to get into, I was one of 13 successful applicants out of a pool of 5000 - I'm sharing this to signify the stakes involved). This means that in a few years time I will be on the track to becoming a manager at this corporation. This is good stuff in my poor, third world Asian country because it basically means that I will probably have a good, stable income for the rest of my life if I stick around in this company. I like the social atmosphere here as well, which is obviously important to be happy at your job.

However, this kind of future clashes with some of the aspirations that I've always, always had in my life;

1. Live in and experience the lifestyle in western countries.

2. Work in policy and development. Yes, I'm still not sure of my specialization. Sorry, it's just the way it is, I'm not going to lie, I don't have any specific direction yet; I just go where the wind blows.

I've worked at an NGO the past year, and was able to bag an externally fully funded scholarship for the MPA program at Cornell (CIPA), and have accepted their offer. The scholarship is extremely competitive as well, and it is unlikely that I'll get it again if I rejected it right now and reapply later some year.

I'll get my tuition fully covered and I'll get a living stipend so the MPA won't cost me a penny. I'll get to experience living in America, and studying at an elite Ivy League institution, which has always been my dream. I'll get to study a lot of things that I'm passionate about. I'll get to experience the university life again which I sorely miss.

BUT after I graduate my future will be uncertain. I will no longer have the stable job and work environment that I currently have. I'm not sure what my prospects are of working in a western country after it, and employers in my own country will most likely question my sporadic activities (from development sector to private sector to graduate school in policy).

Focusing on my prospects of working in North America/Europe after my MPA, what would be your advice? Should I follow my heart and go for it? Or should I stay in a job that I find little meaning in but gives me a stable income? I'm the eldest in my family so I'll probably have to support my parents in the future as well, but if I get a job in a western country, the dollars would greatly help in that, because of the lopsided exchange rate.

PLEASE do respond, and thanks a lot in advance!

 

[lemma]

2 hours ago, Revolutionary said:

Or should I stay in a job that I find little meaning in but gives me a stable income?

I think you've answered your own question there. Cornell should have good job prospects, though things are difficult in the US for non citizens. Your degree is fully funded, and the only issue is finding a job upon graduation, but it sounds like your current role is suboptimal anyway. 

A lot of people jump around early in their careers, and two years in a company (even two companies, based on my classmates from an ivy) followed by grad school is actually quite conservative for students from western countries. I would try to not focus on this element. You can always pitch your story in a cohesive manner. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by lemma

[Prester John]

I don’t have the details to answer your question but have unrelated query.  can you share which scholarship it was?

[Revolutionary]

42 minutes ago, lemma said:

I think you've answered your own question there. Cornell should have good job prospects, though things are difficult in the US for non citizens. Your degree is fully funded, and the only issue is finding a job upon graduation, but it sounds like your current role is suboptimal anyway. 

Thanks for your reply. That makes sense. It's just the act of leaving a well-paying, stable job in an uncertain economy and country that has limited options for policy/development field that's unsettling. But you're right

[jxw]

Hi Revolutionary,

I understand your desire to work in the US as I experienced something similar when I decided to study in the US for college. I became interested in policy/development during college but ended up taking a private sector job on an H1-B visa. The visa situation definitely impacted my decision, and I could not see many non-profits being willing to sponsor a visa for someone like me straight out of undergrad. But there may be options for you given that you will have a graduate degree and have Cornell's connections. I'm not entirely sure of Cornell's specific connections to employers or your specific interests, but here are a few options I can see for you after graduating:

- Work for a large NGO/non-profit willing to sponsor your visa. Eg, I spoke briefly to CARE (in Atlanta) about a job and they do sponsor lots of international candidates. I suspect that international development organizations are more likely to do that, for obvious reasons.

- Work for an IGO. I believe IGOs like UN, World Bank and IMF have easier rules around hiring international candidates due to the nature of their work. Do verify what I'm saying with your own research! I believe there is a more generous allocation of visas to employees of these organizations.

- If you somehow become interested in academia, you could continue with a PhD on an F1 visa

- Transition to the private sector. As noted above, I'm not sure of Cornell's specific connections, but it's likely that even after an MPA, you could land a private sector consulting job and the organization would be willing to sponsor your visa. Note that federal consulting would have its own restrictions since they require a certain background. Not sure how likely you are to want to go back into the private sector, but that's an option.

Yes, the path is a little less "certain" and being on a visa is quite annoying, but even if you decide to return after a few years in the US, employers in your home country will probably view your overseas experience as a plus. If you really desire to experience living in a Western country, I think you have a great opportunity to do so, and I hope the options listed above provide you with some idea of what you can do going forward. Finally, I hope that living in a more developed country will provide you with a more nuanced perspective of both your home country and "developed" countries, which have their own struggles as well. 

[Revolutionary]

43 minutes ago, jxw said:

Hi Revolutionary,

I understand your desire to work in the US as I experienced something similar when I decided to study in the US for college. I became interested in policy/development during college but ended up taking a private sector job on an H1-B visa. The visa situation definitely impacted my decision, and I could not see many non-profits being willing to sponsor a visa for someone like me straight out of undergrad. But there may be options for you given that you will have a graduate degree and have Cornell's connections. I'm not entirely sure of Cornell's specific connections to employers or your specific interests, but here are a few options I can see for you after graduating:

- Work for a large NGO/non-profit willing to sponsor your visa. Eg, I spoke briefly to CARE (in Atlanta) about a job and they do sponsor lots of international candidates. I suspect that international development organizations are more likely to do that, for obvious reasons.

- Work for an IGO. I believe IGOs like UN, World Bank and IMF have easier rules around hiring international candidates due to the nature of their work. Do verify what I'm saying with your own research! I believe there is a more generous allocation of visas to employees of these organizations.

- If you somehow become interested in academia, you could continue with a PhD on an F1 visa

- Transition to the private sector. As noted above, I'm not sure of Cornell's specific connections, but it's likely that even after an MPA, you could land a private sector consulting job and the organization would be willing to sponsor your visa. Note that federal consulting would have its own restrictions since they require a certain background. Not sure how likely you are to want to go back into the private sector, but that's an option.

Yes, the path is a little less "certain" and being on a visa is quite annoying, but even if you decide to return after a few years in the US, employers in your home country will probably view your overseas experience as a plus. If you really desire to experience living in a Western country, I think you have a great opportunity to do so, and I hope the options listed above provide you with some idea of what you can do going forward. Finally, I hope that living in a more developed country will provide you with a more nuanced perspective of both your home country and "developed" countries, which have their own struggles as well. 

Hi jxw! Thanks for this information - it's very useful. The benefits/possible paths you listed are on point and you are right that this is a great opportunity to experience life in a western country, and your final closing remark regarding my perspective is elegantly put.

Regarding the H1B visa and jobs in America specifically, I've heard too many accounts of people getting denied the visa/the low probability of getting it, so I was planning to not too many eggs in the US basket, but instead look towards Canada or Europe. Do you think that's a fair assessment?

Edited December 26, 2017 by Revolutionary

[SerenityNow!]

I think you may be better served by an MBA than an MPA. It is much more common for private sector businesses in the US to sonosor folks with MBAs than MPAs. I have seen this first hand in the hiring practices of the consulting firm I work for. Many of the same non-profits and development organizations hire MBAs and MPAs and you'll make more money as an MBA so you'll definitely get more financial security from that move. You'll also likely encounter issues working for places that do a lot of work where clearances are required. For example there are parts of my office where anyone who isn't a citizen cannot enter due to security concerns or projects they cannot work on (not saying this is right just how where I work operates). 

Also you may be taking on a substantial pay-cut upon graduation, depending on your current salary. Most MPAs upon graduation are making in the 45-65 range in US dollars, which depending on where you are living is decent to just getting by. 

I definitely think you should do whatever feels right for you (truly - as someone in a secure well paid job applying to PhD programs). I just remember watching many of the international students in my program really struggle to find jobs upon graduation and internships for the summer inbetween. 

[Revolutionary]

1 hour ago, SerenityNow! said:

I think you may be better served by an MBA than an MPA. It is much more common for private sector businesses in the US to sonosor folks with MBAs than MPAs. I have seen this first hand in the hiring practices of the consulting firm I work for. Many of the same non-profits and development organizations hire MBAs and MPAs and you'll make more money as an MBA so you'll definitely get more financial security from that move. You'll also likely encounter issues working for places that do a lot of work where clearances are required. For example there are parts of my office where anyone who isn't a citizen cannot enter due to security concerns or projects they cannot work on (not saying this is right just how where I work operates). 

Also you may be taking on a substantial pay-cut upon graduation, depending on your current salary. Most MPAs upon graduation are making in the 45-65 range in US dollars, which depending on where you are living is decent to just getting by. 

I definitely think you should do whatever feels right for you (truly - as someone in a secure well paid job applying to PhD programs). I just remember watching many of the international students in my program really struggle to find jobs upon graduation and internships for the summer inbetween. 

You're right but I simply can't afford to do an MBA and I refuse to take on heavy debt for it.... and I am 100% sure my organization will not sponsor an MBA for me.

Regarding the pay-cut upon graduation, if I get even a low-paying job in North America, in absolute terms there is ABSOLUTELY no pay-cut, since my current PKR salary is pennies in dollars, but in relative cost of living standards, perhaps.

I don't think I'd mind, though - money is an important factor up till a certain point only. For me right now the experience of living in a western country does appeal more, I'm just concerned about the more long-term future.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Revolutionary

[jxw]

Hi @Revolutionary,

Glad that I could be of assistance!

I think @serenitynow's advice on a pay cut is important. You have to be prepared for that as someone interested in public policy. The fact that you're getting a full ride and living stipend does help with that since that minimizes the risk you're undertaking, but she's also right that it will be difficult to find a job and internships as an international student (federal agencies are not good options since they will most likely require US citizenship or at least a green card). I think the best thing you can do is be prepared for that and figure out your angle early on: what is the best career that you would enjoy and realistically obtain in a developed country? Can you leverage your private sector experience to focus on public-private partnerships? Do you have expertise in a particular sector (eg, energy, tech, emerging markets)? Are there organizations in the US/Canada/Australia that would hire you (sometimes they specify if they hire non-citizens)?

Another thing you might have going for you is that you're not from India or China, so if by any chance your company plans to sponsor your green card, you won't have as long a waiting period. Of course, this is contingent on the current administration not messing up that policy.

Regarding your question, I have encountered international students who did not find a job that would sponsor them or have had their visas denied, since the H1-B situation is a lottery. However, note that there are lots of confounding factors involved: you don't know if these people were unable to find jobs because of the particular job they were looking for, or if they weren't of sufficient calibre, etc etc. I personally think that the issue is more about finding a company that will sponsor you as opposed to having your visa denied through the lottery, but I could be wrong. I also do not know about Canada or Australia, but if you think that Canada or Australia would be an easier option, I'm not sure if a degree in the US would be the right way to get there. 

Another suggestion I have for you is to contact Cornell's admissions office and ask them if they can connect you with international students from that programme who managed to find a job in the US or another developed country. I think they will be the best people to tell you about the challenges you will face and how to prepare for them.

Feel free to message me if you have further questions!

 

[went_away]

My 2 cents: turn down the Cornell offer, stay at your competitive leadership program at the pharmaceutical MNC, work your way into management, and check back in when you're 26/27/28. Cornell is not that great of a school, particularly for public policy and I see your current situation as superior to studying an MPA in upstate New York with an uncertain job future ahead competing for low paid NGO jobs. When you do re-apply, if it's for a public policy degree, I would suggest you exclusively apply at Harvard Kennedy, Princeton Wilson, and Yale Jackson. I would also strongly suggest you take another look at doing an MBA. That route will lead to much better renumeration and far better options on the job market. A top 10 program (think Harvard/Wharton/Kellogg/Columbia/Yale/Michigan/Chicago/MIT/Berkeley) - even with debt - would certainly be preferable to a fully funded Cornell MPA. 

[ExponentialDecay]

Oh hello. I remember you from last year. Good to hear that you turned down the unfunded CIPA offer, got a job, worked for a year, and got into CIPA funded this time. It's a case study into how work experience really does improve your prospects in this field. Undergrads, take note.

I think CIPA, if funded, is actually a viable option, and @went_away gives you another viable option in staying on at your MNC to get some more experience and applying to more prestigious school (I disagree with the rest of his advice, but whatever). But neither option is suboptimal and ultimately it comes down to choice. If you really hate your job or you really want to go to grad school, do that. 

Just some miscellaneous thoughts:

1. If you're looking at IOs (which are realistically the most viable option for internationals with this degree who want to stay in the field), more work experience+more prestigious degree can actually make a defining difference in your career prospects. The reason for that is that IOs are not dynamic organizations - a reality which is reflected not only in their promotion practices (virtually nonexistent), but in how your colleagues see you. Once you're embedded in a professional niche, it's hard to get out of it; this is good because you can get consistent work, but it's not so good if you're trying to grow your career or do something else. It's harder to get onto a track leading to a technical staff appointment after 1 year of WE and CIPA than after, say, 5 years and SAIS or HKS (although your results are highly contingent on your networking). The advice you hear a lot is to do impressive work outside the IO and then get in on a plum position rather than getting in on a lower rung and working your way up, because working your way up is uncertain and guaranteed to take a million years. 

2. This is anecdotal, but idk that the Ivy prestige will make a salient difference in your work prospects. It's better to have it than not to have it, but generally, inside the field, people don't care that you went to an Ivy outside of H/P because the others don't have top public policy schools, and outside the field, it varies, but an MPA is a weakness on the general job market rather than a strength, generally. 

@jxw IO employees receive a diplomatic visa, not an H1B. there is no quota on these visas. Also, idk, I know way too many people who didn't get through the lottery despite working for google/goldman sachs to think that finding the employer is the main hurdle here.

[Revolutionary]

16 hours ago, jxw said:

Hi @Revolutionary,

Glad that I could be of assistance!

I think @serenitynow's advice on a pay cut is important. You have to be prepared for that as someone interested in public policy. The fact that you're getting a full ride and living stipend does help with that since that minimizes the risk you're undertaking, but she's also right that it will be difficult to find a job and internships as an international student (federal agencies are not good options since they will most likely require US citizenship or at least a green card). I think the best thing you can do is be prepared for that and figure out your angle early on: what is the best career that you would enjoy and realistically obtain in a developed country? Can you leverage your private sector experience to focus on public-private partnerships? Do you have expertise in a particular sector (eg, energy, tech, emerging markets)? Are there organizations in the US/Canada/Australia that would hire you (sometimes they specify if they hire non-citizens)?

Another suggestion I have for you is to contact Cornell's admissions office and ask them if they can connect you with international students from that programme who managed to find a job in the US or another developed country. I think they will be the best people to tell you about the challenges you will face and how to prepare for them.

Feel free to message me if you have further questions!

 

Hey, thanks for the response and advice! Yes, consulting Cornell's admissions office is certainly the sensible thing to do. I'll be sure to do so, thanks mate!

[Revolutionary]

6 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said:

Oh hello. I remember you from last year. Good to hear that you turned down the unfunded CIPA offer, got a job, worked for a year, and got into CIPA funded this time. It's a case study into how work experience really does improve your prospects in this field. Undergrads, take note.

I think CIPA, if funded, is actually a viable option, and @went_away gives you another viable option in staying on at your MNC to get some more experience and applying to more prestigious school (I disagree with the rest of his advice, but whatever). But neither option is suboptimal and ultimately it comes down to choice. If you really hate your job or you really want to go to grad school, do that. 

Just some miscellaneous thoughts:

1. If you're looking at IOs (which are realistically the most viable option for internationals with this degree who want to stay in the field), more work experience+more prestigious degree can actually make a defining difference in your career prospects. The reason for that is that IOs are not dynamic organizations - a reality which is reflected not only in their promotion practices (virtually nonexistent), but in how your colleagues see you. Once you're embedded in a professional niche, it's hard to get out of it; this is good because you can get consistent work, but it's not so good if you're trying to grow your career or do something else. It's harder to get onto a track leading to a technical staff appointment after 1 year of WE and CIPA than after, say, 5 years and SAIS or HKS (although your results are highly contingent on your networking). The advice you hear a lot is to do impressive work outside the IO and then get in on a plum position rather than getting in on a lower rung and working your way up, because working your way up is uncertain and guaranteed to take a million years. 

2. This is anecdotal, but idk that the Ivy prestige will make a salient difference in your work prospects. It's better to have it than not to have it, but generally, inside the field, people don't care that you went to an Ivy outside of H/P because the others don't have top public policy schools, and outside the field, it varies, but an MPA is a weakness on the general job market rather than a strength, generally. 

@jxw IO employees receive a diplomatic visa, not an H1B. there is no quota on these visas. Also, idk, I know way too many people who didn't get through the lottery despite working for google/goldman sachs to think that finding the employer is the main hurdle here.

Hello Exponential Decay, thanks for remembering me, I remember you as well, your advice was instrumental in the thought process that led me to my decision.

And it did work out really well, because I ended up getting more diverse experience, actual savings, and the full scholarship.

I am leaning towards going now because honestly I can't plan my future to such minute detail. I'm more like - let's just go and experience it and see what happens. The external award btw will make me go on a J1 visa to the US and I can't stay there after graduating, so the work visa thing is redundant now - I am not going to stay in the US anyway. Instead, I look towards Canada and Europe (I feel Cornell has a good brand name in most Canadian schools btw, seeing the profiles of faculty teaching at the top schools there).

That was very insightful information regarding the lack of promotional mobility in IO's but man 5 years are just too much. I have applied to HKS and WWS separately btw, although I'm not too hopeful of getting into WWS and if I get into HKS, of being able to afford it (which means I'll probably still go for funded CIPA rather than debt-heavy HKS as the external award will be only for CIPA)

And again, thanks a bunch for your advice!

Edited December 27, 2017 by Revolutionary

[Revolutionary]

10 hours ago, went_away said:

My 2 cents: turn down the Cornell offer, stay at your competitive leadership program at the pharmaceutical MNC, work your way into management, and check back in when you're 26/27/28. Cornell is not that great of a school, particularly for public policy and I see your current situation as superior to studying an MPA in upstate New York with an uncertain job future ahead competing for low paid NGO jobs. When you do re-apply, if it's for a public policy degree, I would suggest you exclusively apply at Harvard Kennedy, Princeton Wilson, and Yale Jackson. I would also strongly suggest you take another look at doing an MBA. That route will lead to much better renumeration and far better options on the job market. A top 10 program (think Harvard/Wharton/Kellogg/Columbia/Yale/Michigan/Chicago/MIT/Berkeley) - even with debt - would certainly be preferable to a fully funded Cornell MPA. 

That's a fair point, and it makes sense. I'm leaning towards going because even at that stage getting into Wilson or into HKS on a full ride is not guaranteed, but I see what you're saying and in the ideal scenario, I would be going with more work exp

[Damis]

Hi Revolutionary,

In the worst of all possible outcomes, if you weren't able to find something in a Western country and had to return to your home country before you were ready, could you return to said MNC? Obviously they think a lot of you. Would there be space for you to return in another capacity within the same company? I'm assuming they have a policy division if they are an MNC. Further, could you find work within policy and development within your native country? I ask those questions only to gauge what some of the unspoken prospects for you are. 

I say go for the scholarship and stipend. I'm going to assume you are not married nor have children, because they play a factor here as well. Let your passion take off. I myself don't come from all that much, neither, but the one thing I have luckily always had is a sense of wanting more. It's driven me to do some crazy stuff, but my risks were always calculated. I always felt that I didn't have the luxury to mess up, you know? I've found that if you're actually passionate about something, opportunity will usually create itself. Now, there is the element of being GOOD at what you do too, which I'm always working toward achieving at a high level, but I have come to find that folks appreciate people who give a damn and mean well. 

If you do decide to attend, know that there are some folks who don't think all too highly of CIPA (only because it's newer - friends there rave about it). They decided to potentially invest a lot into you because they just know you are going to be a dynamite student that will help in setting their program apart, both now and as an alum in the future. A lot will be expected of you. What are you going to do while you're there to shine? How are you going to dominate? That's going to have to be the foremost question as you move through the program, because that's how you set yourself up for future success.

In either case, good luck! Options are always good, until it comes time to make a decision. I do not envy your situation! 

[Revolutionary]

3 hours ago, Damis said:

Hi Revolutionary,

In the worst of all possible outcomes, if you weren't able to find something in a Western country and had to return to your home country before you were ready, could you return to said MNC? Obviously they think a lot of you. Would there be space for you to return in another capacity within the same company? I'm assuming they have a policy division if they are an MNC. Further, could you find work within policy and development within your native country? I ask those questions only to gauge what some of the unspoken prospects for you are. 

I say go for the scholarship and stipend. I'm going to assume you are not married nor have children, because they play a factor here as well. Let your passion take off. I myself don't come from all that much, neither, but the one thing I have luckily always had is a sense of wanting more. It's driven me to do some crazy stuff, but my risks were always calculated. I always felt that I didn't have the luxury to mess up, you know? I've found that if you're actually passionate about something, opportunity will usually create itself. Now, there is the element of being GOOD at what you do too, which I'm always working toward achieving at a high level, but I have come to find that folks appreciate people who give a damn and mean well. 

If you do decide to attend, know that there are some folks who don't think all too highly of CIPA (only because it's newer - friends there rave about it). They decided to potentially invest a lot into you because they just know you are going to be a dynamite student that will help in setting their program apart, both now and as an alum in the future. A lot will be expected of you. What are you going to do while you're there to shine? How are you going to dominate? That's going to have to be the foremost question as you move through the program, because that's how you set yourself up for future success.

In either case, good luck! Options are always good, until it comes time to make a decision. I do not envy your situation! 

Hi Damis, I'm not sure what my prospects would be in the MNC if I do return buy yeah that's worth looking into. 

I completely agree with you regarding following passion but taking calculated risks and I truly believe that "when you're actually passionate about something, opportunity will usually create itself".

And thanks for the motivation! I do hope to use the opportunity to shine!

[SlamDunk]

Hi @Revolutionary,

I had the opportunity to read both your posts (of May 2017 and this one) and realized I have been in the same boat as yours for a very long time. 

Got into CIPA with 40% funding last year (Fall 2017) but chose to defer to this year and have been awarded a full tuition fellowship for Fall 2018. Am planning to go and give it a try this time despite all the uncertainties we face. 

Have a somewhat longer experience of 7 years from India

Hope to meet you if everything works out well! 

Anshuman