NatureGurl

I actually really like hummus, but I hate how people are like "I LOVE HUMMUS" and bring it to every class for snack. Reminds me of this:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/10/27/112-hummus/

Sometimes I have chosen not to actively participate in class discussions as a sort of silent protest/disapproval of the way the class was being dominated by a few "gunner" students. I speak when I have something to say that contributes to the discussion. Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut and my thoughts to myself.

Sometimes I have chosen not to actively participate in class discussions as a sort of silent protest/disapproval of the way the class was being dominated by a few "gunner" students. I speak when I have something to say that contributes to the discussion. Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut and my thoughts to myself.

I actually really like hummus, but I hate how people are like "I LOVE HUMMUS" and bring it to every class for snack. Reminds me of this:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/10/27/112-hummus/

I have one cohort member who I don't get along with, but we're both professional about it. We say hi, we talk to each other when we need to, and in class we comment on and engage with each other when it is relevant to the discussion. Outside of those settings we don't interact and there is no need to. You don't need to be friends with everyone in your cohort, but you do need to be respectful and professional with them (regardless of your personal opinions about their work ethic). If they think you are coming across as arrogant and judgemental, I would take this as an opportunity for some critical self-reflection and as an opportunity to clear the air with them.
 
Or don't. You can always stay up on the pedestal you've built for yourself and continue to look down at the 'others.' But keep in mind, there will always be people in your work environment that you won't click with. Rather than let it get you down and lead you to leaving your program, use it constructively.

I wasn't a fan of my cohort either...it was just High School all over again...

I love LOTRs and the Hobbit! I read the books in middle school before the movies (and Legolas AKA Orlando Bloom) became popular.

As an international applying for US schools I agree with this. If I was applying for schools in my own country, I wouldn't even go looking for something like GradCafe, because it's not going to add much to what I can find out from talking to people I know. But I hardly know anyone who's been to grad school in the US, and all of those went to one of two well-known programs.
 
These boards are a really useful source of info for the unoffical take on what schools are like and their comparative strengths and weaknesses, as well as all kinds of hints about US academic culture.  And once you've found them, it's a great source of community for people who don't have others around them who understand what the application process is like and can empathise with you as you go through it (again, because it's relatively unusual for people to go to US grad schools, most people have no idea how it works).
 
Even writing this message I've realised something I've picked up from here: calling the place you do your study a 'school'.  I'm from an English-speaking country, but we would never talk about 'going to grad school' - most people wouldn't understand what that meant.  You'd say you were applying to universities; 'school' here means K-12.

OP, while I'm in a non-cohort Master's program I have had similar experiences with a number of my classmates.  I am flat out appalled at those who are investing so much time and money into a graduate program and show up completely unprepared for discussions.  I can understand not reading every single article, chapter, etc.  However, it is not hard to read some of the material and have a couple of discussion questions ready to pose to the class.
 
I will admit that my reaction has been similar to yours and I too have been called judgmental and arrogant.  It should be noted I don't care lol.  I have no interest in socializing or studying with any of them, but am still polite.  I am at times asked for help on assignments and I have chosen to provide limited information.  First I reiterate what the syllabus says and what the instructor said, then I may suggest a resource that may help them get started on their research/get unstuck or a format for organizing their thoughts.  I'm currently working full time in my field so I'm happy to share my work related experiences in my classes so that everyone can learn.  I feel that is sufficient support to offer them, however.  It isn't my job to carry them through the program and if they're struggling that much then perhaps they're in the wrong place.
 
In my program I tend to spend more of my time and energy on what I need to get done and the extra projects I've taken on.  I am doing very well in my program and at my job, so I understand why classmates will ask for help.  I just don't want to get to the point where I am pretty much doing all the work for them, so I just provide limited suggestions instead.  I also don't feel like there would be equal reciprocation if I asked them for help. 
 
My guess is since this is a doctoral program, very soon most of your time will be spent on research and you'll have less class time with your cohort.  Assuming you still like your options for research advisors and projects then that is where you will focus the bulk of your attention.

This is totally me. Glad to know I'm not the only one!

....
 
i have no idea what just happened on this thread.

I totally disagree that the first year is the worst.  For me, the first year was one of the BEST.  Everything was new and shiny and I was still pretty excited.

Here are some thoughts: While my first two years of grad school were okay, towards the end of my second year I started to feel "done" and burned out, and I had a miserable third year and a pretty bad fourth year.  I still loved my field and wanted to do research, but I realized that I probably could've done most of what I wanted with a master's in my field or a related one.  I was tired of being on a grad student stipend, tired of a lot of politics of academia.  I contemplated dropping out.  Ultimately I decided to stay for a variety of reasons.

When I was seriously thinking about dropping out, I learned a few things:

-Everyone feels shame upon leaving academia, whether it's done leaving after the first year of grad school or leaving after having achieved tenure.  The academic system brainwashes you into thinking it's a vocation, a calling, a higher state of being that defines your identity and establishes the base of your worth as a person.  IT'S NOT.  It's just a field, just like any other - it's not really that different, inherently, from business administration or nursing or accounting or nonprofit work.  People move in and out of it all the time, much more than senior professors make it out to be.  The primary goal for anyone who has sincerely decided that they want to leave is to overcome that feeling of shame.

-So here's the tip to it: For me, there were three primary sources of shame:
--The internal.  Deal with this first.  There's the idea that you "worked so hard" and that if you just spend a little more time, you'll get the PhD.  F THAT.  Life is too short to be miserable and the time you've already spent is a sunk cost.  Regardless of whether you finish or not, you're never going to get it back.  So if you feel like you will be miserable, don't extend the misery for 4-5+ more years just because you've already spent a few months there.

--Perceived shame from friends and family.  I found that this was largely nonexistent.  My family of non-academics didn't really care what I chose to do to make money, and didn't value academia the same way I did.  They were nothing but supportive no matter WHAT I wanted to do, and were very sympathetic to not wanting to be a student anymore.  Same with friends.  I had friends who listened to my rants, volunteered job search help and offered to make connections.  Your real friends and family just want you to be happy; most of them do not have the hang-ups academics do about the line between a PhD and an MA or BA.  Venture out - talk to someone you feel really close to about your feelings, just one person.  You'll probably be surprised by what you find.

--Perceived shame from the department.  There are two ways this can go.  There are some departments that genuinely won't care - and I mean that in a good way.  They want all of their doctoral students to be happy, and they are made up of sane people who realize that academia is not for everyone and that it is completely healthy and normal for some students to choose to leave.  Although they won't be happy to see you leave, they will support you and be understanding.  Bless these departments.
Then there are the ones filled with egos who believe the party line about academia being a measure of self-worth, people who don't finish as being "lesser" beings who just "couldn't cut it," and will try to shame or guilt you into staying.  F THEM.  Seriously.  Forget what they think - you won't need them.  Just be polite and keep pushing.  Who cares what a bunch of old senior professors think of you when you're off having a fabulous career doing something else?  In 3 years you won't care.

-I also suggest seeing a psychologist.  For me, the psychologist helped me in two ways.  One, she helped me realize that there was no reason for me to feel ashamed or put so much pressure on myself for not liking academia the same way my colleagues and cohort mates did.  Two, she made me realize that I wasn't "trapped" in academia, and honestly that made ALL the difference.  Once I started looking for jobs and realizing that there were PLENTY of things I could do without a PhD, ironically, I felt happier.  No more was I a doctoral student simply because I couldn't do anything else; instead, I was making an active choice to be here, and I could leave whenever I wanted to.

You have no idea how much that improved my self-esteem and happiness.  I started treating graduate school as a regular job/career choice rather than the hallowed realm of austere scholars, and to be perfectly frank it is not my first priority in my life.  I am now, as is my husband and my friends and personal and mental health.  Strikingly, this has made me MORE productive rather than less.  I look forward to working on my dissertation (sometimes) because I give myself permission to NOT do it sometimes.  I like discussing the finer points of theory in my field and am passionate about my work because I give myself permission to not think about it when I don't feel like it.  Once I did that, I realized how often it comes to mind unbidden, and realized that I do have a true passion - I just needed to put it in the right perspective.

Also, realize that identity confusion is really common in the mid-20s.  It's not just because you're in grad school; the mid-20s are a prime identity establishing time in the work world these days.  I have lots of friends in that age range and most of us are going through it or have went through it.  I only have one friend who knew exactly what she wanted to do from college through grad school and into her career, and even she had a tough time in grad school.

The point from that is - I'm not saying that you should quit, and I'm not staying that you should stay.  That's a highly personal decision and there's no right or wrong answer.  What I'm saying is that you can probably be happy either way.  You're not trapped; you can figure out what to do if you're not in grad school, as you are a smart and talented individual.  Don't worry about that just yet.  Worry about figuring out whether staying where you are, or doing something else, is the best fit for your personal needs and goals.

Some people choose to go the lower-risk route of taking a leave of absence and getting a job doing something else for a year, just to test the waters.  For some, the break recharges them and they return refreshed and finish up.  I suspect most, however, wanted to leave all along and the full-time job helped them ease out and realize that yes, there really is a world out there besides academia.
 
[i want to write a book about getting through graduate school, and your post amongst others has inspired me to write a chapter on deciding whether to leave in the book.  So many students ask the question, many more probably wonder without outright asking, and I've found that most books about getting through grad school don't address it.  It gives the illusion that everyone slides through easily.  Ha!)

Okay, here's a rant.
 
I *hate* it when people leave a message saying to call them--- but don't say why.  This is one of my all-time greatest pet peeves.  I just got one yesterday from a friend--- "Pumpkin, what's your number?  I need to talk to you about something."  Okay... what did I do wrong?  Are we breaking up?
 
Is it really that hard to just throw in one sentence to say "It's about x, y or z"?  Because I still have yet to hear from this friend and I'm wondering, okay, what?  My mind reels with possibilities, mostly negative, because that's just where my mind tends toward.  And who knows.  It could be something wonderful.  Maybe he wants to hire me for something.  But, you know, when I'm on pins and needles waiting to hear from a school, more vagueness and uncertainty is the last thing I need.  Please just say what it's about.  I promise I'll call back even if you think I'll think it's unimportant if you say what it is. 
 
(One thing that occurred to me is that, as he is a grad student, he's calling me to say, Pumpkin, we can tell it's you.  You're not hiding your identity well enough on gradcafe and you need to be more careful!)

I've never smoked (anything), but I know some grad students and professors who smoke. A friend of mine joked that she's a "good" smoker, just one or two cigarettes a day. She kind of hides it, though, because of the public discourse about "smoking is bad, causes lung cancer, etc." I used to think so, too, but now I'm not so sure. Not that I would try it, but I don't know if one or two is so bad.

I've really been enjoying Thinking, Fast and Slow, a book by Daniel Kahneman, winner of the Nobel Prize in economics.
 
He says that, with limited information, we tend to make up stories that fit what we want to believe, whether it is "true" or not. And of course, we tend to make up stories that put us in a positive light and others in a negative light. Being in the social sciences, I am essentially a student of human nature. And I've observed that, with my grad student colleagues, I really do make up stories about them in order to fit what I want to believe about them and me.
 
For example, I had a classmate, let's call him "Bob," who is a White male, relatively athletic, and good-looking by American standards. I took a dislike to him last year because I felt that he was too flirty with our female professor, thus using his good looks, charm, and maleness to "win over" our instructor. This year, I have class with him again, and now that I've talked with him in small group discussions and worked with him on a small project, I like him better. I now see him as a more complex human being than the superficial characteristics I was focusing on last year. So the way that I framed the issue was to compare him to myself in terms of physical appearance and personality and to find him at fault when really I was the one that was at fault... for judging him in order to make myself feel better (although you never really do feel better, do you?). I was always a sore loser.
 
So now I think that my tendency to judge others is not very helpful. I still do it, of course, but I am more conscious of it and try to think about why I do it. Is it because I'm insecure about my own appearance/abilities/charisma? Are other people really there to outshine and outdo me? Or, are they also just trying their best to figure this thing out called grad school?
 
Bob is not the only person in my department that I've misjudged. I've misjudged others as well (although, there are a handful of people that I did not misjudge!). If others are like me, then I would say we're all very self-absorbed (to varying degrees) and probably we are all just walking around in our own little bubbles thinking that everyone is out to get us when really we're just making stories in our heads to compensate for the truth, which is that we are afraid to face our own limitations and weaknesses.
 
I don't like that I have a tendency to judge others. But I'm working on it, and I'm wondering what others here think.

I've never smoked (anything), but I know some grad students and professors who smoke. A friend of mine joked that she's a "good" smoker, just one or two cigarettes a day. She kind of hides it, though, because of the public discourse about "smoking is bad, causes lung cancer, etc." I used to think so, too, but now I'm not so sure. Not that I would try it, but I don't know if one or two is so bad.

Hmmm. I think an assumption that's being made here is that programs should strive for a 100% completion rate, which I think is unrealistic. Of course, programs want to admit the "best" or "top" applicants because those students are likely to graduate and land tenure-track jobs and go on to have fantastic academic careers (which then boosts the reputation of the program, etc.). Programs also want to admit students whom they think will benefit most from what they have to offer. In the time that I've been in grad school, I've seen a colleague leave because her husband got a job elsewhere. An ABD student left for a completely different field.
 
I think professors probably feel disappointed when students leave, especially when they are ABD and the professor has spent a lot of time mentoring the student. But, I guess we all have to move on and do what's best for us. I think "mistakes" are learning opportunities. We all make them and, like every other social institution, universities are not perfect.

I've never smoked (anything), but I know some grad students and professors who smoke. A friend of mine joked that she's a "good" smoker, just one or two cigarettes a day. She kind of hides it, though, because of the public discourse about "smoking is bad, causes lung cancer, etc." I used to think so, too, but now I'm not so sure. Not that I would try it, but I don't know if one or two is so bad.

I've never smoked (anything), but I know some grad students and professors who smoke. A friend of mine joked that she's a "good" smoker, just one or two cigarettes a day. She kind of hides it, though, because of the public discourse about "smoking is bad, causes lung cancer, etc." I used to think so, too, but now I'm not so sure. Not that I would try it, but I don't know if one or two is so bad.

I've never smoked (anything), but I know some grad students and professors who smoke. A friend of mine joked that she's a "good" smoker, just one or two cigarettes a day. She kind of hides it, though, because of the public discourse about "smoking is bad, causes lung cancer, etc." I used to think so, too, but now I'm not so sure. Not that I would try it, but I don't know if one or two is so bad.

It sounds easy. Just weed out the "climbers", the "quitters", the non-"top applicants" and you'll get grad programs with 100% completion rates! 
 
...Except how to do you do that? 
 
From what has been said in this discussion already, the "top applicants" overlap with the "climbers". Isn't "professional ambition" and "wanting to better oneself" important/desirable traits in grad students? It wouldn't make much sense for a grad program to recruit mediocre deadwood if they want a strong teaching & research profile.
Then how to do you determine if somebody is a "quitter" or a "climber"? Was there anything in Loric's 1st MFA application that would have told the adcom that he was going to drop out? Should grad programs start psychometrically testing their potential applicants? 
 
Honestly, I think that adcom's are probably doing a good job of admitting candidates that they think are going to complete. 

One summary of what I'm working on could be: "Some big puffy planets might have bang buddies"

when I realized I wasn't in Iowa anymore:

To deal with the stress of moving, I planned out everything in advance. I put down a deposit for my apartment when I visited the school in the spring, I calculated how much it would cost to drive myself and my stuff out there, and I planned my trip route and had driving buddies. I was able to buy some furniture online and have it shipped to my apartment ahead of time so that the basic necessities would be there upon my arrival (bed, couch).
 
To deal with the anxiety and sadness of leaving my friends and family behind, at first I tried not to think about it. But eventually I had to have the "last" party or get-together. Leaving my mom and dad was the hardest part as we were all crying the morning of my departure.
 
But, I was also incredibly grateful to be embarking on the next chapter in my life--graduate school! I knew that I had chosen a good school (for me) and was hopeful that at least some of my colleagues would become friends (which they have). I guess... life goes on. Things happen. Things change. Sure, there are times when I miss my "old" life a lot. But, I also know that I was ready to move on in my career and that I wouldn't have been satisfied if I had stayed where I was. I've grown a lot in grad school, personally and professionally, and I don't regret coming to grad school at all.

Oh man, first year or two of college I had a lot of problems with this. It made friendships feel fake and ultimately made life pretty lonely. I realized it was due to improper thinking and judgement, but it didn't really crystallize for me until I found this quote by Osho: 
 
It was like.. there are people who are humans, just like me, and I know nothing about their circumstances, goals, fears... what right do I have to judge? Now whenever I catch myself being needlessly judgmental I automatically think of this perspective and it puts me right back in line. Following this mantra has made me a much more tolerable human, and I am happy from how it has shaped me into the person I am today.
 
All in all, I think achieving true empathy is a milestone that every late teen-early 20s kid will reach. Some learn from it and grow, some don't. So you shouldn't feel all that bad about your past behavior, be glad that you have recognized it as a flaw in your character and know that you have enough self-awareness and drive to improve your future interactions with all the new people you meet.