Sparky

vB code--brackets instead of side-carets.

Well, there are good reasons to transfer, and there are bad reasons to transfer. A good reason to transfer might be something like, your advisor left the school and no other faculty do research in your subfield. In other words, you went to the school with the fullest intention of making things work out, but circumstances are simply out of your control. In a situation like this, generally the department will also recognize that it is better for you to be elsewhere. This is critical, because remember that you will have to get LORs from profs at that school. Also, you will have to explain in your SOP why you want to start over, and badmouthing the school or saying "I just didn't like it" are on most "SOP death kisses" lists I've read. On the other hand, some people who don't get into a top-ranked PhD program their first time around go to a lower one with the intention of transferring. THIS is not a good idea. Firstly, if you see your place as 'temporary' it will affect your work and your relationships with the all-important LOR-writing profs. Secondly, what if you apply and don't get in? Transferring grad programs is not like transferring undergrad. You will be in the same pool as "first-time" applicants, except your application may be scrutinized even more heavily (why does R want to leave Harvard? does Q not get along well with people? was the coursework too challenging? etc). Also, and policies on this do vary slightly, if you did apply again, successfully, you would almost certainly enter the new program as a first-year student again. Some of your credits might transfer, especially if you stay through an MA--maybe. At most schools I looked at (I'm not in art history, but I imagine it's similar), you could transfer in at most TWO previous classes. Bottom line: transferring is an option if, once you get to a school, you find out it's not the place for you. However, you should NEVER, EVER, EVER go to a program with the INTENT to transfer. Because look, what if you apply to transfer and then don't get in anywhere? Are you really going to be able to be comfortable in your current program, when everyone there knows you tried to get out of dodge? (Note: I was a transfer student as an undergrad, so I am very sympathetic to worries of 'I don't know if I'll like it.' The best advice I have is, visit the campus, talk to profs, talk to students, and if you are not wildly enthusiastic, don't do it. Don't take the offer. If you're still aiming for a PhD, apply again in the fall).

Wasn't me, but--YAY! Congratulations!

Except there aren't all that many interdisciplinary jobs--interdisciplinary departments ("[X] Studies") are typically comprised of professors from different disciplinary departments. An interdisciplinary PhD ideally trains you really, really well in a traditional discipline (history, English, etc) so you can look for jobs in those departments. Departments at top schools tend to be warier of hiring people with interdisciplinary degrees. Honestly? I would say go for the history program, despite location. I realize that this might sound hypocritcal, b/c after all I'm going to an interdisciplinary program next year, but it is one of the very few with a stellar job placement record. (I would rather take all history classes or all religion classes and get a job than take a mix and be out of work, ya know?)

::happy dance::

The aforementioned Patrology is excellent. Also Henry Chadwick's The Early Church is a classic. UChicago has their patristics doctoral exam bibliography online, which might be a good place to look as well.

Dude, my application to M* programs was about 1/3 the quality of yours, and I got in everywhere I applied. You'll be fine. The biggest thing "missing" I can see is a scholarship language. German or French; which one doesn't particularly matter for admissions purposes. Most places let you submit up to 4 LORs, so I wouldn't stress too much about who to ask yet. Just make sure you get your LOR writers in line early. One thing you might want to keep in mind is that some MDiv programs prefer one of your recommendations come from a pastor. I don't know if that's in addition to academic ones, though, or a substitute for one of them. For PhD applications, I would make sure that you used Latin (or another primary source language, or at the very least a secondary source in another language) in your writing sample--every school I contacted specifically said they wanted to see this. However, recalling the writing sample I submitted to MA/MTS programs, there was not an ounce of anything but English in it, and I did fine. Start your SOPs early, over the summer, even. Have at least one person look over each draft of all of them. Keep your grades up, including next spring! Undergrad GPA matters for PhD admissions, too--a 4.0 or near-4.0 graduate GPA is sort of expected, so schools look to UGPA again. No senioritis for undergrad religion PhD hopefuls, unfortunately. You can get 'masteritis' after your Ph.D acceptance. Good luck and blessings! It's intimidating, but exciting. And most importantly: it is SO, SO WORTH IT.

'Cause it's what I wrote about in my MA/MTS statements of purpose! Just a note: my answer assumed you will be applying for early church/historical theo programs. If you see yourself applying chiefly to scriptural theo PhD/ThD programs, it might be wiser to stick with Hebrew. Because remember, you won't just be taking classes in your immediate area of interest. NT people also take OT classes, and you'll probably be expected to work with the OT in Hebrew. (Similarly, if you're doing historical/patristics, even if your main interest is in the first three centuries, you'll probably end up in a class on fourth- and fifth-century theologians at some points, yes? ) So think about what your coursework will most likely encompass, and let that guide your decision. And also--thanks!

Tertullian, 2nd century, is usually considered the first Latin Christian author. The first five or so volumes of the Patrologia Latina cover the first three centuries. But regardless, Latin will be infinitely more useful to you than Hebrew for patristics. Are you interested in canon formation issues and the apocrypha at all? (This has no bearing on my answer. I'm just curious ).

No, I mean, GRE scores are THE WAY that many (again, not all) schools that don't guarantee funding determine who gets it. They give TAships to the highest-scoring X% of admitted students. I'm not talking about departmental admissions or special snowflake fellowships. I'm talking about the people who will never see those glowing LORs, degrees with high GPAs, or record of continuous employment. They will see (a) your name ( your GRE score.

Yes, but at programs without guaranteed funding, GRE scores get you funding from the graduate school. (In many cases. Not all, but many.)

Nope! Patristics (especially patristics) needs those basic four: German, French, Latin, Greek. Depending on what you decide to focus on, you might add other ancient languages later, but get a solid grounding in Greek and Latin first, as well as German and French for secondary scholarship. You don't have to be reading Heidegger or Rahner in the original, but you do want to be able to sight-read journal articles from fifty-odd years ago. I guess the easiest way to look at it is, what language did the theologian(s) you want to study write in? If the people you study didn't write in Hebrew and didn't know how to read Hebrew/have access to Hebrew texts, there is no academically practical reason to learn ancient Hebrew. (However, the "because it is JUST THAT COOL" reason remains). If you study Augustine, Coptic and Ethiopic are probably not so much going to be of use. And so forth.

Go to FSU!!! Elaine Treharne and Nancy Warren! Learn from masters! And in the summers, learn Latin, and apply again for PhDs in two years. You will be a much, much stronger candidate for medieval.

I accepted the offer from Notre Dame (medieval studies)! One offer turned down (unfunded theology, though; sorry, wish I could be of more help) and one app withdrawn. And on that note--HAPPY ST. PATRICK'S DAY! GO IRISH!

Hey y'all, Next week I'm meeting with a few of the first-year MA students in my program who are planning on applying for PhDs in the fall. To help them realize the gravity of the situation (one of them mentioned applying to BC as "backup"), I would like to share acceptance rates or at least the size of the admissions pool, number of admitted applicants, number of spots per subfield....really, anything you've got would be useful. From this cycle, please (i.e. applying in 2009-2010, to start fall 2010). Thanks! The only one I know for sure thus far is that History of Christianity at ND had 50 applicants for 2 spots. (So, 4%, but really, when you get as low as 2 spots, does percentage really matter?)

The first time, I got a 4.0 on the writing. I had a seizure during the first essay and didn't write in English (and wasn't aware enough of what was going on to realize it until it was too late). Even assuming I got a perfect score on the second essay, by ETS's own criteria THAT CANNOT AVERAGE OUT TO FOUR.

Latin would be on the easier side?! (...says the medievalist ) Well, one way to look at it is, what are you planning to focus on and how far are you going to go with your degree? If you are looking at any kind of Christian theology and want something easy, German or French. (German is probably more useful. I find it easier. Most people prefer French). If liberation theology in particular is your thing, you need Spanish. Are you planning to go for a PhD/ThD? You will likely need Latin and/or Greek ("and" for historical; "or" for systematics or moral). Biblical, of course, is Greek and Hebrew, and German and French. (You will need Greek and Hebrew for admission to a biblical PhD program, and probably either German or French. Most people come into historical programs with at least one ancient language and one modern one). If your focus is something besides Christianity, you will want to adjust your language according. Want to study Islam? Arabic. And so forth. A summer reading course is a very, very good idea. Many universities offer them in Latin, French and/or German. I have no idea what Harvard's summer course offerings are like, but I can't imagine they wouldn't have, like, GER 501 "GERMAN FOR READING" or whatever in the summer. Such a course is a "zero to hero" class that will take you from 'ich bin ein Berliner' to being marginally competant, with a dictionary, at reading academic articles. But if you are looking to make this as easy as possible, but still useful (assuming Christianity): German. The words are long, but the nouns are capitalized. It's a fair trade.

LOR = Letter of recommendation SOP = Statement of purpose POI = professor of interest (potential advisor; prof you e-mail before you apply to a program) Languages for systematics: German and French for sure. Start with German. Most programs that I've taken note of also require either Latin or Greek. Leagus is right about Spanish & LT. A lot of the major stuff has been translated into English, but not all of it. If you want to do feminist theology, Spanish as well, and probably French next. But as you know, all the cool kids do historical theo. HT typically requires German, French, Greek and Latin, with the option to substitute one language if it would be more appropriate for your area/region. For example, as a late continental medievalist, if I had stayed in my current HT department I would have been able to test in Middle German instead of Greek. However, with HT it is often the case that you just sort of "pick up" additional languages as you go along--I don't know any profs in my department who are limited to four plus English. The Eastern patristics people are the craziest, of course--you know, the ones who read fluent Greek and Coptic and Syriac and Aramaic and Demotic and that's just for starters.

FSU! David Johnson is an Anglo-Saxonist who does translation theory, and you'd also have Elaine Treharne (!!!). And Notre Dame, of course. Also, what is your Latin like? Applying as a medievalist, it would be helpful to have at least one semester of grad-level Latin. So that's something you could do. Many schools offer a reading course over the summer that might be open to non-degree seeking students (Notre Dame's is, for example).

After admissions this year? Dear heavens, take the PhD. Obviously, this does not apply if School 1 has a de facto MA/PhD program. Find out about their reapplication process. What percentage of their MA students apply to their PhD program? What percentage are admitted? How much work is the process? And--most importantly--how likely is it that your TAship would continue from the MA to the PhD? It can be a nasty shock for funded MA students to realize that they, while accepted to their school's PhD program, did not get funding b/c they are seen as an easy 'get' and funding is a way to lure people to the school. I cannot stress this enough. Find out how many continuing students continue to be funded.

This is what I used; your mileage may vary: Beginning = I know the grammar but have to look up every other word Intermediate = I need a dictionary more often than I would like but am in general good to go Fluent/advanced = Rahner makes more sense in German than in translation It is a good idea to ask one of your LOR writers to attest to your language skill in more detail than you can go into on your CV. In fact, the LOR forms for some programs actually ask this specifically (I know a couple of mine did--that's medieval for ya). They can say stuff like "can sight-read German, French, Dutch, Italian, Swahili, and Arabic, but resorts to a dictionary frequently with Czech and Georgian. Speaks Coptic like a native." Although the last bit might be viewed somewhat skeptically. Welcome!

Your master's is in education? Do you have a BA in history and have you taken grad-level history classes? If not, I highly, highly recommend going for an MA in history before applying to PhD programs. Don't waste your time in area studies or other "cognate fields." I know what it says on history departments' websites about the value of other subjects' approaches and trying to recruit applicants with backgrounds in other fields. But look. I'm coming out of an MA program in historical theology, whose PhD grads often get jobs in full-blown history departments. When I contacted history departments to ask if my lack of a strict history backgroud would be a problem, professors at several schools were kind enough to tell me that yes, it would be. Even though the official word was otherwise. At one history department to which I did apply, I was assured it was not a problem...but when I inquired about my rejection, "lack of adequate history preparation" was the reason given. You have to prove to top programs that you are a dedicated historian, I think. Whether this is through an MA, or through taking a year off and taking upper-level history classes as a non-degree seeking student is your choice (although you may be able to find funding for the former). But coming from another subject, you will face an uphill battle in this regard. And keep in mind that I am one of the successful, unbitter, SUPREMELY LUCKY ones this year! On a happier note, check out Emory. They're strong in transatlantic history, African-American, and African history. One good way to look for programs is to look at who writes the journal articles and books you use in your research. Where do those scholars teach? A significant part of getting in is the nebulous criterion known as "fit", which primarily means that the school has a faculty member (or more than one) who works in your field. So that's crucial. (The greatest part of getting in, and if this year can be taken as a portent for the future, of getting funding, is luck. So, uh, start looking for four-leaf clovers now, 'cause you're going to need as many as you can find).

I have no idea, but - congratulations! That's really awesome!

I officially accepted the offer from Notre Dame, so March really is it for me. Right now I'm mostly relieved I don't have to start the "2011 IS IT!!!!" thread. Good luck to everyone still waiting, yikes...

Wow! Congratulations to everyone who got into Harvard! That's awesome! Thank goodness I was born when I was, lol, I would *hate* to be applying for PhD programs in the same pool as y'all! This TOTALLY wins my vote as best and happiest thread on TGC.