Scantronphobia

1. & 2.  I find it happens quite a bit, but only mostly because our professors aren't quite clear on our progress on grades, and also because there are a lot of international students trying to see where they need to improve.
4.  I can see a lot of benefit of organizing study groups etc. -  sometimes collaborative sessions really do help us by talking things through.  I appreciate it when we collaborate and work things out.  There can be a danger though that some of those activities can spin out of control.  I know of one class where a student-led initiative has added extra work (teaching classes above and beyond what's required), and it hasn't been agreed upon by everyone.  It's interesting you see this as a millennial issue - I saw it as just people being very keen, but I do wonder how much of it is an age thing.
4. - thankfully not.  I think we've been a pretty sober bunch, thankfully.  I worry that people will use substances to cope with the stress.

It's not shouting at all - it's a completely valid critique.  I have classmates in another class who are dealing with something that started out as 'something you guys can do in your spare time' to 'let's have the class do this class you'll all be teaching for an extra 3 hours every week'.  It can very quickly shift subtly, and we should fight back against it. 
It's one thing to have an optional study group - it's another thing to drag everyone in a class into activities that should be optional.   I resent having to rearrange my schedule for people who are doing things like putting on student events with people who don't make school work their first priority.  So their priorities are the student events and then classes - 'oh, sorry, can't make it for our assignment meeting because we have a deadline for the conference...'   Family commitments or work is one thing - student run events that affect my group's marks are another.  Far too many selfish people putting their extra curricular activities ahead of school work  and we all have to work harder because of it.  I also resent the implication for everyone - students and faculty - that you just need to pull a few all-nighters in a row, and you're expected to be up until 4 am.  Sorry, but sleep is valuable to me, and people who assume 'well just pull an all nighter' annoy the hell out of me.  I want to work hard, but just saying 'don't sleep' is a pathetic answer and an immature coping strategy.

I think the issue with #3 is when the shift subtly goes from 'voluntary, non-assessed' to 'expected'
Look at it this way -
Many of us older students are coming back to school for a possible career change or advancement.
We may have significant responsibilities outside of school - working full time, families, volunteer work, home duties, mortgages etc...
In my case - working full time, school 2/3 time, main support for a family of 5 which includes me, a disabled spouse, a special needs child, and 2 grown children (one of whom is in grad school full time, the other still trying to find his niche in life)
WE DON'T HAVE ANY TIME FOR ADDITIONAL UNEXPECTED STUFF!
sorry for shouting there --
 

Disclaimer: Not actually an older student, but I like to read about the experiences of them, and tend to frequent these threads often.
I have to ask: Why is this an issue?
As for 1&2: Are you talking about new grad students? They're probably not out of their undergrad mindsets yet--none of the senior grad students in my program care about grades.

Thinking of my Master's program I would say....
1 & 2)  Yes, but it wasn't just the younger students.  I thought this was bizarre at first because in undergrad this wasn't the norm for me.  I also tend to be more self motivated and less interested in comparing my performance to others.  I set my own goals and am happy to just keep beating myself and creating additional challenges as needed.  Clearly they were happy working in this manner so I just let them be and did my own thing.
3)  Yes, but again it wasn't just the younger students.  The only time this was a huge problem was when they'd bring this up in class and convince the professor it was a great idea to make it required to do this kind of extra work.  I used my class evaluations to suggest that kind of thing be encouraged, but optional and clearly I wasn't the only one to say so because things changed after my first semester.
4)  No, but there were plenty of happy hours after class and on the weekends that I heard about.  

See, the social-professional is where I thrive. I have a bit of a reputation for going into conference mode, where I suddenly become incredibly gregarious and social. It's much easier for me to sit down with faculty from other programs (and my own, for that matter) in a social environment, or trade cards, or do whatever networking type stuff I'm supposed to do, because that's just where my pre-school background trained me.

Don't know where I belong either.  I do feel like I am a little too old for the program I'm in.  The T.A. is 16 years younger than me, and I'm working on projects with people who have 3 years of professional experience.  I can relate to them, but they don't attempt to relate to me.  It would matter if I wasn't in a program with so much group work.
I think people resent that I bring another perspective on things - something a little more experience and nuanced.  I'm a little sad that the program is pretty unstructured in a lot of ways - sometimes I feel like I'm showing up to class and there's little guidance, no written assignments (or very vague, or they expect us to be domain experts and know how to deliver quality work), and my team mates have little experience so I take the lead and just feel like people aren't contributing.... and I'm tired of a lot of it.  I'll stick it out, but go through moments where it's not at all what I had hoped it would be.
 

Oh, the digestion! I remember being able to have gluten and milk once upon a time
Glad your experience is going well.  I would say my experience is mixed - I do know some people in my program who haven't worked, and I bring a lot of different work experiences that I do talk about in class (tied to the program material) and I don't know if people just can't relate or not.   There are moments of 'let's all go drinking' that I can't relate to at all, or going to event after event.  I come home exhausted and sleep - I'm feeling like my 40s are making this harder than I would realize.  I'm trying, but I feel like an outsider, and don't think it ever will be easy for me in the program because I feel very different than everyone.  I bring a certain kind of more philosophical point of view, but sense that's looked down on.  I'm trying to remain open minded and positive where I can be, but it's tricky.  People will bring up blanket statements in class - 'Facebook is evil' - and my counter examples - 'ah, but they had a role in the Arab Spring, so while parts of their practices are unethical, there is some value in...' and I get blank stares, and end up not continuing.  Any nuance tends to be lost.
I do wish I could find the older students in other programs in my school, but I have no idea where I'd go to find them.  I try to go to events, but the workload is pretty hard to balance as well as look for some kind of work.

To be fair, I have a required class where it's a bunch of grad students from different departments, and the ones who aren't into nuance are the more 'artsy' or 'code-y' grad students - so they're not used to thinking meta about the work.  Some of my classmates do parse the nuance - it's also difficult because some of our classes are pretty theoretical, so I suspect at some level we're all just exhausted from thinking.  I'm disappointed by some of the classes - one in particular whose workload is through the roof, and the professors are unable to communicate clearly what they want, or we all come out going, "what the....?"  The good news is some of the students have banded together and said they're frustrated, and we need more guidance. Solidarity in numbers  
I'm not sure anyone looks to anyone as leaders or inspiration here, and it's been hard to get back in the socializing part.  I'm also doing so much group work and by the end of the day, I'm just exhausted from so much human contact.  I feel pretty lost as an introvert and feel it's definitely pushed me out of my comfort zone, for better and for worse.

I did not feel older in my last program.  Most of the students were doctoral candidates.  So, there was a range of ages.  There were also the post-docs.  (I was the same age as most 4th-5th year PhD students.)  In this program, however, I am aware of the age difference.  I live on campus, and my suitemates are all in their early 20's.  A few of them definitely seem younger.   It almost feels like college...part 2 (which is a nice change of pace).  I'm probably one of the oldest people in the whole building.  
On the other hand,  I think most of my classmates fall into the 24-34 bracket.  So, I only feel older before and after class, not during.

Personally, my MS advisor was the very best I could ever ask for. We synced in research fit and personality. He has a knack for being able to change his style of advising depending on his students. I'm praying my PhD advisor lives up to my expectations set by my PI. Ahh, I'm going to cry again. Leaving is bittersweet. My office is cleared out and tomorrow I'm proctoring my last exam as a TA and turning in my keys. I already defended and submitted my revisions.

I've been in situations where I would only get feedback from someone if/when I scheduled a meeting to that end. Manuscripts I would send would get a "I will read this and get back to you" response but they would never get back to me until I scheduled a meeting. If that's the situation you are in, it is not at all uncommon. You need to figure out if you can live with it, and you probably need to learn to work this system better. That is, stop expecting to get written feedback, because this person just doesn't seem to do that. Instead, send a meeting request along with your manuscript: "Dear Prof X, here is the latest version of my manuscript. Could we meet next week to discuss it? I am free Monday at 2pm." Ask for the meeting for a time when you would expect other professors to email you back some comments. It can be very beneficial to get comments from such a person, even if they are not in writing; you just need to be able to accept that this is what this person can give you.

Advisor relationships can be tricky! But why don't you start, whenever you send him stuff, asking to schedule a meeting, too? Like "here is my [output], can we meet two weeks from now on Monday or Tuesday to talk about it?" It doesn't address your broader concern, which is that you prefer a more hands-on advisor than the one you have, but it might make your working relationship a smidge less stressful.

I don't think that what you describe falls into the good or bad advisor category but is strongly related to fit. My current advisor is like this. I send him some results after a few weeks of not seeing him then his only feedback will be "keep up the good work." My advisor likes the work I do but simply doesn't want to be very involved in his student's research. I can only guess but from what you describe, it sounds advisor might be like this. He might want you to do your own work and only come to him if you get really stuck.
 
It sounds like you would like an advisor who is involved in your work and there are plenty of professors out there who want this. You probably have enough stess already so you don't need to feel additional stress due to your advisor's mentoring style! If you decide that you want to change labs then there is nothing wrong with that. I think you should take some time to reflect on how happy you feel and whether you can accept your advisor's mentor style or if you would be happier with someone else. If you stay in your current lab then is there a postdoc or more senior PhD student who you could seek feedback from instead? The most senior PhD student in my lab realizes that our advisor isn't around much and goes out of his way to be available to answer questions. We have pretty different research interests so I cant go to him for feedback on my work but sometimes it is nice to have someone look at a poster before you print it or tell you who to email for computer help etc.
 
I'd say that around 5% of the time I feel a bit upset about my advisor's lack of interest/help. This usually only happens when I am really excited about cool results and have spent a lot of time on them and send them over and just get a a couple word answer. The other 95% of the time I feel thankful that I get so much independence. I have learned so much from having to figure stuff out on my own and have been able to drive the research in the direction I want, without limitations. There are pros and cons to all sorts of advising styles so I really think you should just think about what works best for you.

Yes--good luck. Personally, I don't look at it as starting over, exactly, just changing routes a bit on the journey. Of course, when I met the other new graduate students, I realized that they had gotten a lot farther in a lot less time. That was harsh. Plus they look like babies to me--hard to take them seriously. But then I remember being in grad school at their age (the first time) and feeling like people were thinking that about ME. But I was a baby--maturity wise. I didn't fully appreciate grad school the first go round. Feels kind of awkward. It's like I went back in time without looking or feeling younger, though.

I agree. I have found this to be difficult as well. I have loved my co-workers, but I was the young one who joined an established social studies department, and I've been the baby for awhile. The other two women in my department I have really loved, but one retired this year and the other will reture in two years. I love them, but our relationship teeters back and forth between being maternal and friendly. Both have older children, and one has grandchildren, so sometimes it's been difficult to relate for me.

If I get into a doctoral program, I'll be surrounded by those mostly younger than me, who are trying ro find a significant other (I am married). I'll be closer in age to my advisor(s) potentially. I'm shy and introverted, so outside of work or school, I'm unlikely to find companions as it is.

So I get what you're saying.

Well I already started the thread "Older Students" which turned out to be a hot thread... never expected that. 
 
Here I am now about the subject of making new friends.  I am talking about close, life-long friends.
 
I am 39 years old, and I have moved around a bit for a while, until I settled here in Northern California 5 years ago.  I still have yet to connect with someone to create that wonderful friendship that I feel I have missed for so many years.  While I am married to a wonderful man, I still long for that best-girlfriend... 
Does that sound too weird?
 
I had a very close friend for many years... and after I moved out of state, it became apparent to me, that the friendship wasn't as close as I thought.  I attempted many times to connect, but over time she stopped putting the effort into it.  It hurt a lot, almost like a breakup I suppose.  
 
I am finding it fairly hard to make new friends where I live, and lasting ones at that.  As soon as I meet a person, they slowly disappear.  I know some of them have been due to differences in interests or beliefs and I am okay with that.  I wouldn't want someone to fake their interests to keep a friendship.  
 
I try to tell myself that I am very unique and not many women share the same interests or similar personalities with me.  Should I just leave it to that and accept that I will be mostly friendless into my older ages?
 
 

Officially saying hello to my "older" friends.
I'm excited that it's 2015. After two years of thinking, debating, and planning, I'll apply to Ph.D. programs this fall -- the same time that I turn 39.  It's been 10 years since I finished my masters, and 16 since I finished my bachelors. For the past year I've been taking a couple of online courses at the university I hope to get my PhD from. I've been pleasantly surprised by how much I've enjoyed the classes and homework! I'm now certain that I can commit the the PhD journey.
What's giving me some anxiety is how much technology has changed how students work. I'm learning about Mendeley and Workflowy now. I can see that tools like this will be extremely helpful, but in the meantime I'm struggling to get caught up and learn what the 20-somethings in my classes seen to know intuitively. 
And the GRE.....whoa. I'm having to relearn so much of the math, which is humbling since I know a great deal of is it taught at the advanced high school or early undergrad levels. I can successfully run a nonprofit healthcare organization and lead 22 staff, but the rules of algebra? I'm lost. 
Thanks to all for keeping this thread alive -- it's been one of my favorites on GradCafe so far!

Hello, everyone! 
 
Excited to find a forum/thread that addresses my situation.  I'm about to start my graduate program, an M.S. in counselling psych, and have 80% excitement and 20% nerves/trepidation.  I'm 37, and received my bachelor's degree in 1999.  Since then, my only coursework has been in the form of training for work/continuing ed type stuff, or just classes for fun, not hardcore academic work. I've always been a strong student, but I still have some anxiety about getting back into the swing of things. 
 
I've been a teacher, myself, so I'm not head-in-the-sand about how much technology has changed elements of education...but I've been more on the educator end of that than the student end. A little anxious about that, but I think it'll be fine.  I feel like I've got a lot of advantages as a person starting graduate school in my upper thirties, in that I'm not a parent, and am able to attend full-time without working, so I'll have less to juggle than many at this stage of life. However, I'm also a newlywed (relatively, my husband and I celebrate one year at the end of this month), and starting a family if possible is on our list.  This is a bridge that will be crossed when we get to it, however. 
 
Mostly, I'm just nervous about getting back into student mode.  I've been in the working world from age 23-37, so it will be a switch. But as a person who always treated schooling like it WAS a job, I'm hoping the transition will be easier than I might think.  I'm less worried about relating to younger peers, because I've spent a lot of time in the past seven or eight years working with that cohort, and manage to relate fine. 

Welcome!!!! Glad to see you join the family!  I understand your anxiety...I went through that too.  i about to start my second semester now.  The good news, is that once you start, that fear goes away and yoi become more focused on work.,
 
Looking forward to talking more!

So are we done with this thread now? I'd reeeeally like to comiserate now that it's the end of the semester. Any stories from the past few months about trying to forget how old you are and not being successful at it because everyone in your classes is 10+ years younger? Does anyone talk about their age to their classmates? Or do you try to avoid the subject?

It's the start of my first finals week as a doctoral student and I suddenly find myself with the attention span of that dog from the movie Up.

31 isn't old at all in my view--that's a great age to do grad school--you're not too old to be worn out by it but not so young that you don't get it in a larger sense--you know why you're there, you know what the alternatives look like, etc. Good luck to you!

So glad to see this thread still going...I just began a doctoral program at 40. Orientation was brutal--for me, anyway. Looking out and seeing about 300 faces around 20 years younger was a reminder that it has taken me a lot longer to 1. figure out how to do what I want to do and 2. be in a place in life where I can actually do that. Then again, I look back to who I was when I was just out of undergrad--a mess. And I realize that now is the time for me--I probably would have screwed it up then if given the chance. Hopefully the members of my cohort won't call me mom.
 
Would love to hear others' experiences with being older grad students!