TC3

True, but Georgia gets like 300-something applications per year for maybe a dozen spots, probably. That's about as competitive, percentage-wise, as many top-20 programs.

Amalia: I applied to 11 creative PhDs last year. Most programs took 2-3 poets and 2-3 fiction writers each. Utah was an exception, taking 4-5 per category. Ohio University took *one* creative writer, I think. Needless to say, I was passed over for all 11 programs (I have an MA). Tybalt: I first looked at Fordham because Sarah Zimmerman's work played a role in the article that I sent as my writing sample, and I've since caught on to John Bugg and the New York Romanticism Group. I'll admit that the website was frustrating, as the English department seemed to defer to the Graduate School page for info on funding, application requirements, etc. I was impressed, however, by the openness with statistics of time-to-degree, funding percentages, cohort size, cohort score ranges, attrition rates, etc. Of course, there wasn't a complete list of job placements (only the highlights, as is usual). You know, I can't find any specific funding or teaching load information. I figure that it's 2/2, a stipend a bit low for NYC (albeit Bronx). According to the data page, less than 100 people applied last cycle, so I'm hopeful about my chances. If I'm lucky to get in, I figure, I'll find out what the numbers are and go from there. Not exactly the most meticulously planned application, but what are ya gonna do, eh?

Yeah, ideally the teaching load would be 1/1 and the stipdend ~15k for a low cost-of-living city, but I also see how that's hard to justify when doling out funding. I'd also take the somewhat exploitive funding, as I'm currently earning a grad student stipend to teach 9 courses per year (so-called "PT" adjunct at a 2-year college).

I'm looking at everyone's tags and wow...WashU was a popular choice this year.

I've found that while some programs may be ambivalent about applicants who already hold MAs, not many programs categorically prefer applicants with BAs. I know that Penn State and Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign would make this list, and a couple of years ago it seemed that Wisconsin was the same, though not so much anymore. I could be quite mistaken, of course. I'd say that an MA is a strong component to an application as long as the applicant has the accomplishments that an ad.com. would expect of someone who has gone through two years of graduate-level study. If it seems that the applicant just hung out for two years and took some classes, the MA might hurt the application, but if there are some accomplishments (e.g. awards, conference presentations, publications, teaching experience), the MA speaks to the applicant's ability to turn graduate study into a professional and long-lasting endeavor.

At first I thought that the UIUC acceptance was dubious, but I looked into previous years and it seems that the program does actually still notify acceptances through the postal service. The date reported, I expect, is merely an error, as mail is not delivered on Sunday. In regards to the MA/PhD situation, I'll add that UIUC doesn't seem to want people who already have MAs from other institutions. I recall reading somewhere on the program website that UIUC strongly prefers its English grad students to do both MA *and* PhD there, and that PhD matriculation is largely internal (from the MA student pool).

As I understand it, generally speaking, it's the exception rather than the rule. I've never applied to a school that interviews potential matriculants before offering admission/funding, but I know that Notre Dame also interviews. I recall a few other programs (private, top-ranked) interviewing, but I can't recall which ones exactly.

They did postal rejections last year. I'm sure that the acceptance notifications are glowing telephone calls or emails.

I'd assume that the posted acceptance indicates that Cornell made its first round of offers this past week, and that the posted postal rejection indicates that most rejections should be arriving in our mailboxes beginning on Monday.

Yeah, Llyr, it is pretty humbling when comparing my concerns to what others in the past had to endure. Probably a good note to end this on. Let's just forget it, yeah? It's tough, no matter which way you slice it. And I certainly don't mean to denigrate ad.com. faculty or those who *did* go to top programs. It's difficult to discuss privilege in a way that doesn't sound like one is blaming someone else. Just imagine this in the best burnout conspiracy theorist voice: "It's the system, man!"

Yes, I certainly don't mean to make blanket statements.

Yes, I don't mean to make blanket statements. And Benton's arguments certainly are problematic. In the end, we're all just trying to make it. And it's difficult to discuss issues of privilege without sounding combative or denigrating those who do/did attend top programs. I certainly don't mean to do that. I suppose I should take the -1/+1 for me/you as an indicaition and gracefully bow out. I do agree that anyone can move up in the ranks, and I certainly did this from my BA to my MA. I would encourage anyone to get as much out of their program as possible. Ultimately, Conan's advice is the most profound. Be kind, and amazing things will happen.

Thanks, I do mean it, but I don't think that exceptions prove the rule. This forum is used largely by those who can realistically hope for such programs, and while everyone has that anecdote of the two or three people who started at Everyman State U. and ended up at Yale, 99% of the time the name *does* matter, and it's also more than a little unfair to provide what at first seems to be harmless "keep your chin up" advice. If anyone can get in anywhere, it makes it more of the applicant's fault that the Everyman State U. student didn't make it into Harvard; if s/he had just tried harder, then s/he would have reached his or her goals. Even more reason for the applicant to be depressed, as if there wasn't reason to be depressed already (see the Thomas Benton column at the Chronicle, as well as the related article concerning similarities between Academe and cult psychology). It's easy for the privileged to say that anyone can get in anywhere. It's not so easy for the underprivileged to buy the pitch.

Meh, I never expected to get into Cornell. I have a BA from an unranked state branch school and and an MA from a 50-75 program. Not like I'd even be considered. It was a frivolous application.

Yes, I think that the "sour grapes" indictment is too dismissive, and typically is leveled by those who don't have a problem getting into programs, anecdotal evidence aside. In terms of more hard evidence, just go to any major research university's English faculty page. Look at where they all received their graduate degrees. Make it a drinking game. First variation: a shot of tequila for every degree from a top-30 program. Whoever is the last to pass out wins. Second variation: a shot of tequila for every degree *not* from a top-30 program. Whoever is the *first* to pass out wins.

Hah! Unfortunately, not. I received my rejection from TN today. Either (a) TN never before has sent out rejections so early (see acceptance/rejection history on results page) or ( no one who was rejected this early posted it on the results page. I would have felt very privileged to be admitted into TN's program, but I also think that I was pretty qualified. I guess TN doesn't care much about CVs, though my writing samples were strong as well. Someone once told me that TN's PhD writing program was more of an MFA program in nature, and I *know* that I don't fit the profile for an MFA student. But this might have been misleading hearsay. All in all, it's a disppointment, and I would have loved to be a part of that program.

It looks like the statuses have started to flip over to "Deny" (or whatever it is). I imagine that this has to be done manually on each person's account, so there should be a steady trickle of these tomorrow.

No, mine is still "Pending," but it's likely that those flip over to "Deny" a little bit *after* positions are offered.

Most who use this site are a privileged class among graduate studies. A cursory examination of the admissions results page shows that most postings regard top programs that most applicants cannot hope to access. We all have out anecdotes about this one person who got into an elite program even though they didn't come from an elite program, but in general there's still a ubiquitous subscription to the notion of "pedigree" among graduate programs. I certainly understand the frustration, but also agree that programs such as UNC are beyond my reach because my BA is from a little-known state branch school. There are many reasons that a person doesn't attend an Ivy or Public Ivy for his/her undergraduate, and almost all of those reasons have nothing to do with the potential of the candidate. Despite the increased focus on social activism, English departments still exhibit a class snobbery when it comes to tiers and rankings. It is a little hurtful when I see comments about these top programs being a "safety." It also shows a naivete concerning the current state of the market. I would not view *any* top-50 school as a "safety," considering that they receive hundreds of applications for less than a dozen spots. In terms of creative writing, I've heard of programs rejecting Stegner fellows. Pedigree does not account for how more and more qualified candidates are accepting positions at lower-ranked programs (and yet finding those programs to be just as good an experience as "top" programs). In the job market, we see more and more highly credentialed and professionalized graduates taking jobs at institutions that traditionally were the recourse for those who "didn't do much" during their doctoral program (e.g. community college, liberal arts and teaching college). Again, though, the user of this site seem to be disproportionately representative of the class of applicants who, for whatever reason, are many a department's darling. I wish more "common folk" (as common as doctoral applicants to ranked research universities can be) used this forum.

So, I checked Tenneessee's app status today and it had changed from "Your application has been sent to the department for review" to "Your file is complete. A letter has been mailed to you." I applied to Tennessee because I'd love to be a part of their creative writing program, and am disheartened that I will be rejected there, as I considered it to be one of the more "realistic" chances I had... Or perhaps I will keep up pointless hope? The acceptance history shows that TN prefers to notify through snail mail, and that first round acceptances were mailed out this very week last year. Who knows. But most likely I've been rejected Anyone know anything more solid?

Thanks! I didn't apply to Texas Tech, North Texas, or Houston because I grew up in Texas and don't want to go back . Unfortunately, many of the programs to which I applied (especially the ones where I have a realistic chance of just being considered) had later due dates. Binghamton's was yesterday!

Abramson has been a great help in the past, but I think that he's removed his blog since it contained a lot of information that he's now using for profit as part of Abramson Leslie Consulting. It seems that there's a *ton* of data about MFA programs, but PhDs in creative writing are still a bit of a mystery to folks, and it's a rare find when one encounters some genuine insight into this process. I've pretty much written off Illinois at this point, especially considering that they may even take less than the 7 or 8 they took last year. And I've pretty much written off Utah as well, but there's not much information on the decision timetable to form an accurate picture of its admissions decision schedule. I heard that at Utah creative PhD applications go through a slushpile round for which the creative faculty look at only the creative writing submission, and if they don't like the writing (considered absolutely in a vacuum from the other application components), the application does not move on to the rounds for which SOPs, critical writing samples, CVs, LORs, and stats are examined. A little frustrating, since that slushpile round is essentially no different than the process by which a journal selects unsolicited manuscripts for publication, and a PhD program is so much more than that.

Last year, Penn State offered about 15 spots to BA holders, and about 3 spots to MA holders, whereas some programs explicitly require that the applicant already have an MA.

Right, and some argue that GREs should be abolished altogether as a requirement. I'd agree that while a certain cutoff of stats applies in many cases for initial slushpile decisions, I don't think they factor into the actual acceptance decisions. I know someone who scored abysmally low on the GRE Literature subject test (as in, below the 40th percentile), but still was accepted into a top-30 program with full funding. Of course, I'm sure we all have our anecdotal two cents. Wanting to know others' stats is really just a nervous habit, I'd say, unless a particular program is well known for basing decisions straight from stats.

For those of us applying to a creative writing PhD program, what have you heard? Some deadlines (e.g. Utah, Tennessee) have long passed (December 15), but others (e.g. Denver) passed quite recently (Feb 1), and one (Binghamton) was as late as *today.* If admissions for any other English focus is a mystery, creative writing lives with the double mystery of regular application assessment and the reading of our creative writing samples. Sometimes, it seems, the latter is no different than the process by which a literary periodical selects unsolicited manuscripts. Some with novels and books of poetry are rejected. Stegner fellows are rejected. Some with degrees in entirely different fields are accepted. So, what have you heard? What has been your experience in years past, if any applies? What have you heard about particular programs? Any advice for us?