Medievalmaniac

I dunno...there have only been a handful of Penn State posties in the forum...mostly accepts from early on. They had over 700 applicants, right? So how can the other 690 or so of us be on the waitlist? I think they are just waiting to send everything out together after they get their admits and waitlist, but I wouldn't count on being on the waitlist, I guess. I know I expect a rejection.

I'm sorry to hear that. Was this your only offer, or do you have funding at another school? If not, will you attend UNCG anyway?

From what I can tell according to the graduate studies webpage, anyone who does not qualify for in-state tuition is classified as out of state. There are very specific guidelines posted as to what to do to get to in-state status. I think the idea is, if you are funded, you are told outright; if you are not funded automatically, you are supposed to seek out a TA, RA or GA ship on your own through the graduate studies department, or to pay out of state tuition for the first year, live in Greensboro, and then shift to in-state rates after twelve months. That's according to what I can construe from the website - which is actually a little better organized than some I have looked at!! Ultimately, though, you might want to call the DrEGS and ask outright; she seems really nice via email, and certainly would be able to answer your questions about funding.

Inextrovert - these are AWESOME suggestions! Thank you for sharing your experiences - I know this will be helpful to others!!!

Dear Truth Snake, Thanks so much for your honest evaluation of me as an individual and a scholar. I shall take what you have said into account. For my part, I'm sorry you have deliberately misread everything I have posted. I don't blame anyone for my life choices. They're mine. I don't blame programs for not admitting me. I do think it is unfair in terms of the reasons I was given for being denied - but so does everyone who hasn't gotten into their top choices. I have a course of action in place for handling my current situation, and I am going to continue to invest in my future, my hopes, and my dreams. I am also going to continue to post what I think and my ideas and opinions in the forum, because I am, like everyone else here, participating in a larger conversation, and I hope my examples and stories and my opinions will be of use to someone (clearly, not to you...but maybe someone else would read my stories as cautionary and/or uplifting tales, which they are meant to be, rather than the victim stories you have analyzed them as being. I am NO victim). In the end, the departments will make their decisions and we will make ours and we will all live with our choices. I take full accountability for everything I post, think, say and do, and I'm proud of myself. Unlike, let's say, other folks in the forum, who rather than owning their words choose to create a brand-new account simply for the delightful chance to attack me with impunity. Pot, Kettle, Black. Also- Game, Set, Match. Have a lovely day attacking others with your newfound anonymity! I'm off to teach the classes I have created from scratch, tutor my student for the AP Art History exam, and go about the daily business of being the best I can be on this day. P.S. - in case anyone else misread all the exclamation marks and question marks in my first post in this thread about UNCG - I was being complimentary of the program. These marks are meant to underscore my admiration for a program that allows for people to have both a life and a doctoral education. They are not in any way intended to denigrate or otherwise take away from any other doctoral program. I admire many programs for many reasons. I was just delighted to have found such a wonderful reason to admire a program I had previously not known anything about, and felt the need to underscore that enthusiasm with enthusiastic punctuation. Please take this as a positive commentary intended in a positive fashion to highlight a positive attribute of UNCG's English program.

Why the HELL didn't anyone suggest UNCG to me this past application year??? I just checked their website and looked at the past course lists going back for two years. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR DOCTORAL LEVEL COURSES IN ENGLISH IS OFFERED AT NIGHT. EVERY SINGLE ONE. EVERY SINGLE TERM. Most of the programs I looked at, while outstanding and highly respected, pretty much give parents the middle finger schedule-wise. What's the good of getting into a top ten program if you have a family to support and raise, and their scheduling is totally incompatible with that? It's something I struggled with in terms of applying; Catholic at least offers a few night classes. The others I applied to in this area - UNC CH and UVA, offer one or two, but not usually in my field of study. UNCG - ALL of them are evening classes. This program is made for working parents! It's a freaking working parent's dream come true! Why didn't anyone tell me that?!?!?!?! They are going to the top of my list next year. The top. I'm going to petition like mad. If Catholic doesn't give me money in the next go-round, then UNCG is definitely my top top choice. FWIW - I emailed the director of graduate studies to inquire concerning feasibility of an application's getting consideration with a weak undergrad GPA but stellar stats since (having learned my lesson not even to bother if they wouldn't overlook that this season...). The website had him listed wrong...so, my email went to the Dean of Arts and Sciences (ooooops! lol). The Dean forwarded it to the DGS with a note addressed to me letting me know it wasn't his decision, but he was sending it to someone who could answer the question, but if it were his choice he'd take me (joke...? lol) . The DGS said the same thing, and that if I had any other questions about applying, to please feel free to email him at any time. I'm emailing folks from the department later today; hopefully they will be equally accommodating. I have so far encountered only lovely, prompt, kind answers, in contrast to others on the board...maybe they're less stressed out now that the admit season is winding down and they've had spring break.

No, nor I. But at my undergraduate school if the English 323 I took was called "16th Century Literature Excluding Shakespeare" or, English 411 were called "Violence in Medieval Literature" on the course syllabus, that's what the transcript read, whereas at my graduate institution it just says "Eng 323: British Literature" or "Eng 411: Literature and Culture". I definitely will make it a point to list what we did and who was teaching in my next go-round!!

I jog or swim. I play with my daughters. But, sadly, the most relaxing thing I do, and my favorite stress relief, is...more reading in medieval subjects, or more research for my projects, or more writing. That's not a joke, I actually am that pathetic, or blessed, dependent upon your view of it - I am one of the people out there who doesn't just have the job - I AM the job. It's my work, my hobby, my passion, and my first love, all rolled into one. Which is why not getting into a funded program sucks so much - I just really want to do the work, because it's not just my work, it's also my fun, and if I'm not doing it in some aspect - I honestly don't feel like I have anything I want to do!

Well, not to sound too biased, but I think those who study medieval literature know, in a way that many cannot, that what we do is fundamental to the understanding of why western society is what it is, and I believe that by studying the literature, analyzing it, comparing it to other literatures, and exposing the contents of it, medievalists can help modern society come to a deeper and more basic understanding of itself - thus laying the groundwork for change and evolution of our culture, if anyone will listen or really cares to evolve as a society. I will lay out three examples to demonstrate why I think it is more than relevant, but in fact absolutely necessary, to seek to understand what was going on in the Middle Ages - which, of course, is recorded in the texts that are left to us, if you dig deeply enough. First: the medieval era was the era in which everything we think and feel about gender differences in our society first coalesced. You want to know why the nineteenth century focused so heavily on the Madonna-Virgin-Whore paradigm, and why Britney Spears at 16 was the Princess of Pop and at 21 was washed up and condemned as a slutty has-been, while Jude Law can spread his seed with impunity and maintain his "sexiest man alive" status? Medievalists know. In the 4th century, St. Jerome codified Catholic thought through the creation and dissemination of the Vulgate Latin Bible - which became the cornerstone text of Catholic thought for the next thousand years, until the Protestant Reformation and the King James version of the Bible. Based on Jerome's textual choices (and he definitely picked and chose; for a VERY interesting experience pick up The Other Bible and take a look at how differently everything would have evolved in terms of the equality of the sexes if he had chosen from the other texts available at the time, much less Mary Magdalene's gospel - the only one by a woman, which was conveniently dropped from the canon). According to Christian doctrine, the teachings of Church Fathers, and the paradigms set up by such, Eve was inferior to Adam, and through that inferiority and her subsequent womanly wiles, she became responsible for everything bad that happened to humanity, including, by passing on her temptable defect, the first murder via her eldest son, Cain. It's all her fault. The Church spent the next thousand years condemning women as the weaker and lesser sex - except, of course, for Mary - the paradigm of greatness, virtue, and perfection in woman, who as the Virgin-Mother of God's son redeemed Eve's behavior through her perfect sacrifice, but did so in a way no other woman could ever hope to live up to - thus setting the stage for every subsequent woman on earth to fail at atoning for Eve's sin. This was the accepted truth, and it became so ingrained in the Western cultural tradition that it became self-propagating. We STILL to this day live by this code of thought, even if we wilfully choose not to believe it. But I swear to you, that if there is a group of five people working together on a project, and four of the people are men and the fifth is a woman, if the project goes bust the four men WILL blame it on the woman either in their heads or vocally, and the woman WILL assume she is being fingered because she's a woman, and this is no matter what the circumstances behind the failure actually are. That is because in the Middle Ages - in nearly every (western)text you can read from the medieval period, this is in some way played out - and that's because the Church held such sway over the society that it filtered through to the core of that society's identity. Which brings us to the question of identity. National, that is. We want so badly to pretend there's no such thing as national thought, and that in our modern, global, multicultural society such things as national boundaries shouldn't exist and / or matter, but they do. And that started in the medieval era. As powers coalesced and modern European nations began to form into what they are today, the writers of those nations crafted identities for them via epics. This is not new - Homer did it, Virgil did it. The writer of the Song of Roland and the Charlemagne cycle did it for France, crafting that nation as a great one ruled by the most perfect, Christian King in accordance with God's will to divine rule and justice for all believers (which politically eventually worked its way from absolute monarchy to socialism). The writers of the Arthurian tradition in Britain did it, rendering Arthur also the most perfect, Christian king - only, in Arthur's case, the focus was not so much on the justice through God and worship as it was on the unification of the various individual communities in England - because in an island nation, that was more important than the Crusading going on in the mainland(which politically eventually worked its way from absolute monarchy to a monarchic figurehead and a more democratic, Parliamentary government - and moved to the USA as an experiment in democracy from the beginning). And on, and on. Every country has a foundational story. The writers of that country did that, and the stories evolved over time to accommodate the changes and shifts socio-historically within the country. And therefore, national identity is a fictitious creation that was crafted to aid in the foundation and propaganda of the developing nations - in the Middle Ages. We still adhere to so many of those codified ideals today, and if you look at places where the French and British settled, these ideas came along for the ride. If we as literary critics can study these foundations, through the texts, expose the fictions, and explain how they work, then we can actually begin the foundation of a new modern understanding of societies - and THAT might actually begin the talks we think we are having, but really aren't. There's too much fiction in the way for modern countries to be able to reach common ground. The study and understanding of those fictions can pave the way for a common, human baseline from which to begin real negotiations for a global community. Finally, we think we are so much more sophisticated and humane in the modern world than "they were in the Middle Ages". But that is also a fiction. In studying and comparing medieval texts and modern culture, we can see so clearly that nothing has really changed. We can pretend we are more humane all we want to, but the fact is that torture is still used in the modern world, by societies that claim there is no torture being used, and a lot of the methods we still use today were used in the Middle Ages. We still have mass killings and wars over religious and economic issues. We still have the upper classes and the lower classes, the haves and the have nots. We still have those who are untouchable in terms of being punished for wrongdoings because of their position in society. We still have violence, rape, murder, incest, infidelity and affairs - all of which was occurring in the medieval societies, and recorded in the texts. In the end, the human condition is the human condition, and while we can go ahead and pretend we are more sophisticated, more worldly, kinder and gentler, a true comparative reading of popular culture in the Middle Ages and popular culture now tells us otherwise. We have the capability to be more than we are - but only if we are honest about things. It's the literature that can show us where to go and what to do, if we are brave enough to point it out and demand that others look more truthfully and closely at it. Everything that has happened in western society since the medieval era, has been a response to the medieval era. It has either held up what was believed, refuted what was believed, added to what was believed, developed what was believed, or responded to what was believed -as that belief was recorded, in the texts left to us. There's a place for science, Math and technology in the modern world, and that place is very obvious. Likewise with service-oriented professions like medicine, social work, and education, and for politics and government. But the linchpin of it all - in my opinion - is the literature. It is the human record, and without it we would not know what has gone before, what has been done, what has been dreamed. We would have nothing against which to compare our existence or our achievements, and nothing to show us where we have gone wrong and what we can do better. My argument stands, as it has always stood, that history repeats itself, that history is recorded in the texts left to us, and that literary studies is the backbone of every other subject matter and every human endeavor. But - I don't have any real thoughts on the matter...

I'm starting this thread as a chance to help others learn from my mistake(s), and I hope others will be generous with their lessons learned as well. I JUST thought to look at my transcripts, and realized that two of the classes in which I did the most work in my area of study do not reflect that on the transcript!! They just say "ENGL _____, Literature and Culture" and ENGL ____, British Literature. I didn't even think to talk about the work I did in these classes in my SOP, I focused on my thesis, my conference activity, and what I want to do for my dissertation -so, while I'm sure my professor's letter of recommendation discusses it to some degree, essentially I applied for medieval literature with only one course actually labeled as such on my transcript. My SOP focused very heavily on what I wanted to do in a doctoral program, while (now I see very clearly) only nominally, superficially, expressing why I was qualified to do it. WOW. No WONDER some of the programs I applied to didn't even consider me as a serious applicant!! So - from my experience, check what your transcript says about the classes you took/the titles they are filed under, and make sure you discuss in detail for about a paragraph the pertinent coursework you did - texts read, etc. etc. And boy, do I feel dumb!! But at least now I can see where to go in my next round of apps!! Anyone else got some good, specific pointers?

It's not just state schools anymore, as we know from my unhappy situation. Even some of the private schools only have X number of TAs, and they generally go to the high scorers also.

Here's mine. I will not reveal the institution or individual who sent it, but it should certainly make you all feel better: I applied with a 1997 BA in French at William and Mary, 2.66 GPA. Which was certainly low, but there were good reasons for that, including overloads every term, working 40+ hours a week, and an hour commute daily. But I learned how to make the most of my time and multitask, and from there, I went on to: 3.56 GPA at American University in interdisciplinary medieval studies, 2000. 4.0 MA in Medieval Literature, Longwood University, 2009. GRE: 480 Q, 640 V, 6 AWA. State certified to teach, with 10 years of experience since 1997 teaching everything from 8th grade through undergraduates, in French, Spanish, Literature, and AP Art History, and a number of my high school students have gone on to score a 5 on the AP exam in French language, French literature, English AND Art History after taking my classes - which I have designed,written the curriculum for and implemented for scratch for the past eight years. I also have presented at 6 different conferences, all in my field of study. One of my conference papers (2006) was subsequently published in the double-refereed conference journal. I also have several articles in subject-specific encyclopedias both in my area of specialization and in both of my secondary areas of study (2007-present). Here is the reason for which I was rejected from one of my top choices, verbatim: "Nothing you have done - neither your teaching record, your GRE, your Graduate degree, your publications and conferences, nor any other aspect of your application, is sufficient to compensate for your undergraduate GPA." Yeeeeeeah, I'm not gonna lie to you, that kind of hurt.....actually, my Ego coded, and I needed a transplant... So, you should all feel better about your rejections at this point.

Branwen - I ask myself the same questions, every single day. Maybe they're absolutely right, and I don't have what it takes, and I'm not that smart, and I'm not worth a PhD. But, then I remember that my friend got into a top 20 school for 20th c. American lit with full funding and doesn't know who DeLillo and Wolfe are. And I think of the conversation I had with the giggling BA - wielding, fellowship-winning Johns Hopkins admit who said "Derek who? Oh. (gigglegigglegiggle; shrug) I don't really know anybody in medieval studies. I like the literature, though, and it's easier to get into than modern, so...(shrug, gigglegiggle)" during a medieval studies conference dinner. (Sweetie? Look at the back cover of one in five books on anything medieval you have read or researched in for classes. You know that "D.S. Brewer" guy? Ummmm....yeah. If you ever want to make it to professor, you'd better get to know that company, publishing your medieval title with them is kind of key. Plus - don't you look at the books you read?!) That's when I realize that I am qualified and I do have what it takes. I just have to be patient and persistent and make sure they see what I bring to the table. So - right there with you in the fear and despair department - but I'm going to do everything I can to make this happen, which means revise, revise, revise my papers and SoP and keep studying that-there Thomas Grey for the subject test. ;)

Well, it upsets me to no end that I am a passionate and fully committed, MA holding medievalist with a ton of research and preparation in the past five years under my belt, and I was not accepted or funded, when other "medievalists" who don't even know who folks like Bonnie Wheeler, Shulamith Shahar, Eileen Power, Charles Muscatine, Roger Sherman Loomis, Norris Lacy, Derek Brewer, Maurice Keen, Thomas Hahn, and Glyn Burgess ARE, nonetheless are off for five years of funding at top programs. That actually bothers me a lot...if you're going into the field, you should know the foundational figures and also some of the current important figures in scholarship in that field, and be apprised of what the current critical trends are and the history of scholarship in the field. I guess what bothers me is that the numbers game apparently means more than actual passion and preparation - it doesn't matter if you ACTUALLY know anything, as long as the paper trail looks good. It's such a false indicator. Seriously. I was talking to a friend of mine who is going for twentieth century American literature the other day. She's fully funded at a top 20 school. SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHO DOM DELILLO AND TOM WOLFE ARE. But, she had a 3.8 UGPA and good GRE scores. Really? I mean, really??? Shouldn't she at least have HEARD of those two, as a twentieth century American lit studies major? That's my main gripe right now. I wish every school did an interview, even as I know how hopeless that is with so many candidates - but honestly, some top candidates on paper are not well prepared at all in reality. Which is NOT to take away from anyone who has gotten a great accept and funding - I'm so glad for you all!! Please don't take this as in any way intending to be a slap in your faces. I don't think everyone is unqualified - my gripe is specifically aimed at people who really and truly AREN'T ready, but who on paper look ready. As in the above examples.

APH1224...I understand your viewpoint, because I held it ten years ago. I didn't know anything about academia. Non of my grandparents ever attended college, and my great-grandparents on my mom's side didn't even finish high school - Iowa farm families. My dad was a career soldier who had a BA earned part time via the GI Bill; eventually when I was in high school he earned an MBA also. Mom was a stay-at-home mom who went back and got a real estate license when we were ten or so. My parents thought it was a really big deal that we had a full encyclopedia set in the house. There was no talk of higher education beyond the bachelor's degree. Everyone was delighted when I got into college at all. I received little counseling and support as an undergraduate - my parents thought that since I transferred from Longwood and was graduated at William and Mary I was set, and none of us knew about academic advising, etc or knew to ask (this was pre-internet). I worked my way through, took out student loans and course overloads, and graduated with 138 credits and about $8,000 in debt. My first job in teaching high school right out of college netted me $24,500 a year - which equated to about 926.00 after taxes. A MONTH. With rent at $735, my salary barely made ends meet, and trying to pay off student loans was an impossibility, even married with two salaries. Credit card debt ensued, and deferred loans racked up interest. I decided to go back to get my Master's. Teachers with MAs get a little more money. I had no idea that you could or should be paid to do upper level graduate work. I did one year of an unfunded master's degree at American University - which was the only program that would take me with my lower undergraduate GPA. Ten years later, I am still carrying a substantial amount of the credit card debt I racked up trying to live off of a beginning teacher's salary the first two years and part-time teaching during my year and a half in DC. I am also forty thousand in the hole for student loans, thanks to deferrals and a steep tuition price at AU that, in hindsight, I never should have paid. I want my PhD, and I am passionate, enthusiastic and dedicated to my work. I teach 6 courses a term, 5 terms a year, at a year-round boarding school. I have written the curriculum myself and crafted each of these classes from scratch. I have publications, conference presentations, am a member of several professional organizations, and conduct myself as an academic professional. I therefore fully expect to be paid for what I bring to the table as such. My work and publication record is certainly comparable to that of many entering assistant professors in my field. As a PhD student, not only will I be working on my own research projects and writing, but I will also be expected to work on the projects of professors in my field as a research assistant and also to teach undergrad courses. And I WANT TO!!! I'm DYING to!!! But, for an academic, this is professional work, and nobody should work as a professional in an unpaid capacity - certainly, the professors are being paid for it! In my case, with two small children, a mortgage, and a mountain of debt from my earlier attempts, I cannot do it unpaid. And had I known then what I know now, I would not have this debt, or at least not this much. So - I was accepted, but without funding, to a school of my dreams. I don't have a choice here - I cannot pay my own way through 5 years of a doctoral program, and I cannot uproot my family to take a chance that after a year there might be funding. If I don't get some assistance financially, then I simply cannot go, at least not right now. When I applied, I checked a little box on the applications: "Do you wish to be considered for funding?" And when I checked that, I very clearly told the schools in question what my expectations were on my end - then it was up to them to determine whether or not I would meet their needs. Apparently, this year I didn't. Maybe, next year, I will. (I hope). I do think, in many cases, funding your own MA is OK - and even necessary, these days. But if you are going into the humanities or the sciences, unless you are independently wealthy, funding your own degree is out of the question; furthermore, being asked to fund your own PhD is essentially the department's way of saying "You know, we really like you, but we're not 100% sure about you". They didn't reject you outright, but it's essentially up to you to prove to them they didn't make a mistake; whereas being funded is their way of throwing their support behind you. Or, at least, this is my understanding of it.

They're on my short list for next year.

I'm living this one...I'm in at one of my top choices, but without funding. With two kids and a mortgage, and a spouse who is totally unwilling to do the student loan route, I therefore can't go. I wish they'd rejected me, then maybe I wouldn't hate myself for being financially strapped and blame myself for being incapable of seeing my dream to fruition. I've deferred, and will try again next season.

My acceptance depression stems from the fact that I got into one of my top choices, a school I would LOVE to attend for my PhD...but no funding, and there's no way I can swing it without the funding -we have two small children, and a mortgage. So, I have to defer, hope they give me funding in the next go around, and do something to improve my stats so I can also apply to a few other programs close to us location-wise, hoping against hope for funding somewhere so I can make this dream come true. I desperately want to go, got in, and can't go - at least not this year, and maybe not at all. THAT is acceptance depression.

Every program has a different approach to deferral. There are a number of programs that do not allow deferrals - you have to reapply if you do not accept the offer of admission. Some programs consider a deferral a binding contract between you and the university, and you can't apply elsewhere (in law school, this actually becomes an ethics violation and can cause you to have trouble when you go for your board exam.) Other programs understand that in the case of a deferral due to finances, you may not be able to attend without aid, and will not hold it against you if you also apply elsewhere in hope of a better financial award. It all depends on the individual nature of the university- and sometimes even the program - in question. You really need to consult the university in question. Talk to the DGS and/or the head of your program and find out what it and isn't acceptable. They are not going to automatically revoke your acceptance for asking about the process.

It all boils down to what you want, honestly. You could compromise and move somewhere between the schools. You can maintain separate residences during the term, or schedule classes so you're only gone 2-3 days a week, or (in some cases) you can even get graduate housing on campus during the term and avoid paying an extra rent - but in the end, do you want the degree, or do you not want the degree? There are a number of academic couples who actually live extremely far distances from one another during the term. I know of one couple in which the husband teaches on the East Coast and the wife, in the Midwest. They are young, untenured, and that's where the jobs were. I know some tenured faculty who teach in separate states. Ultimately, you will have to go where the jobs are....so this might be a good testing ground for that. As the daughter of a military soldier and a mom who refused to move every three years (we only moved 4 times, rather than the 8-10 ordinarily required of my dad's position; otherwise he just left and then came back when his deployment was over I have watched a "commuter marriage" be a very successful venture - but my mom knew when she signed on to the relationship that the Army meant a lot of traveling, and the compromise they came up with was that she and we would (mostly) stay put, and he would do the traveling. It was hard, but it also helped my sister and I become the independent and resourceful people we are today. I have commuted as far as an hour and twenty minutes to and from work in former jobs - and yes, it can suck, you lose a lot of time. But if you are taking public transportation, it can also provide good reading time, and if you are driving, you can catch up on your world news, events, and current music fads on NPR. And ultimately, it will force you to be better about using your time wisely - which will make you a better academic. So, unfortunately - no really good advice here, other than you have to weigh your priorities and the trust level of your relationship and make a decision accordingly. Good luck!!

Read between the lines. Not everything is as literal as people want it to be. Look at what you posted as being their words, and then LOOK at those words again. It is clearly an offer of admission to the MA program. They are not going to charge you another application fee to be considered, if you want it, you are in. It's an emphatic and encouraging tone - somebody in the department WANTS you, but the adcomm for whatever reason can't justify you to the DGS in comparison to other candidates. They are offering you a shot, the only one they have to offer, likely because you fit well with someone in the department's work, and that somebody either is on the adcomm or has sway with the adcomm. THAT is a compliment. You need to call the department and ask, specifically, the following questions: 1. What was it about my application that caught your eye and caused you to rethink of me as a candidate for the MA rather than the PhD? 2. Is this a conditional offer, meaning that if I do well I will be automatically admitted to the PhD program? 2. Why do you think I would benefit from completing the MA at your school? 3. How many students in the MA program continue on to complete the PhD at your school? 4. Is there the possibility of funding after the MA year of I am admitted to the PhD? But don't automatically turn it down, not without the facts. And make sure you always read between the lines when you get missives like this - if it's not an outright acceptance or admission, there's always a lot of gray. You're an English major - time to dust off those inference skills. Good luck!