VictorianTess

My take is, dress up for classes that you are teaching, and wait and see for classes that you are attending. I think that it kind of depends on the school as to how dressy your classes are, but you should probably dress in a way that distinguishes you from your students when you are actually teaching.

My take is, dress up for classes that you are teaching, and wait and see for classes that you are attending. I think that it kind of depends on the school as to how dressy your classes are, but you should probably dress in a way that distinguishes you from your students when you are actually teaching.

My take is, dress up for classes that you are teaching, and wait and see for classes that you are attending. I think that it kind of depends on the school as to how dressy your classes are, but you should probably dress in a way that distinguishes you from your students when you are actually teaching.

I'm a fashion conscious person myself, and I don't have any problem with people thinking badly of me if I dress "too well." Everyone has their hobbies; that is one of mine. That being said, I would recommend not worrying about the possibility of looking "too good." There are far too many people who look frumpy in academia, and there is certainly no correlation between frumpiness and intelligence.

As far as what to buy in order to look put together without breaking the bank, I would recommend starting with a list like this http://womensfashion...ntial_elements. You can find several similar lists that basically tell you to buy a handful of interchangeable pieces. My recommendation would be to start with one of each of the following in a style that looks professional: pair of slacks, skirt, dress, and dress shoes. A blazer that matches one or more of the previous items would take that list a step up. I would also recommend two or three dress long sleeve dress shirts and two or three short sleeve dress shirts. You may also want a cardigan or two that will go well with several of the shirts.

As with men, good places to shop include thrift stores and discount stores (i.e. Ross, TJ Maxx, Marshall's, Nordstrom Rack). For women's clothing, I would also recommend New York and Company. Although their clothes and accessories can priced higher than they're really worth, they have fairly frequent sales and frequently give you a discount on future purchases when you buy something or when you get on their mailing list, such as 30% off a purchase of $50+. If you are near an H&M, their clothes are very reasonably prices, and they always have a handful of professional pieces, although that's not their main focus.

I would also recommend taking advantage of sales when you can. Many stores are having seasonal sales right now. In addition to the stores you might ordinarily try, such as department stores, you might also try stores that aren't normally so reasonably price, such as Banana Republic or Victoria's Secret (they actually have really great professional attire). I would also recommend checking out post-Christmas sales. I was able to buy a very nice suit for about $50 at a New York and Company after Christmas sale.

When you do shop, I would recommend trying everything on. Not only are their variations in size, but different cuts, colors, or shades of a color look different based on body types and coloring. I would also recommend getting things tailored. I don't do this often, but one item that I absolutely have to get tailored is my slacks. At 5'2", most pants are too long (even if they're marked short). This can be done at most drycleaner's.

My take is, dress up for classes that you are teaching, and wait and see for classes that you are attending. I think that it kind of depends on the school as to how dressy your classes are, but you should probably dress in a way that distinguishes you from your students when you are actually teaching.

I'm a fashion conscious person myself, and I don't have any problem with people thinking badly of me if I dress "too well." Everyone has their hobbies; that is one of mine. That being said, I would recommend not worrying about the possibility of looking "too good." There are far too many people who look frumpy in academia, and there is certainly no correlation between frumpiness and intelligence.

As far as what to buy in order to look put together without breaking the bank, I would recommend starting with a list like this http://womensfashion...ntial_elements. You can find several similar lists that basically tell you to buy a handful of interchangeable pieces. My recommendation would be to start with one of each of the following in a style that looks professional: pair of slacks, skirt, dress, and dress shoes. A blazer that matches one or more of the previous items would take that list a step up. I would also recommend two or three dress long sleeve dress shirts and two or three short sleeve dress shirts. You may also want a cardigan or two that will go well with several of the shirts.

As with men, good places to shop include thrift stores and discount stores (i.e. Ross, TJ Maxx, Marshall's, Nordstrom Rack). For women's clothing, I would also recommend New York and Company. Although their clothes and accessories can priced higher than they're really worth, they have fairly frequent sales and frequently give you a discount on future purchases when you buy something or when you get on their mailing list, such as 30% off a purchase of $50+. If you are near an H&M, their clothes are very reasonably prices, and they always have a handful of professional pieces, although that's not their main focus.

I would also recommend taking advantage of sales when you can. Many stores are having seasonal sales right now. In addition to the stores you might ordinarily try, such as department stores, you might also try stores that aren't normally so reasonably price, such as Banana Republic or Victoria's Secret (they actually have really great professional attire). I would also recommend checking out post-Christmas sales. I was able to buy a very nice suit for about $50 at a New York and Company after Christmas sale.

When you do shop, I would recommend trying everything on. Not only are their variations in size, but different cuts, colors, or shades of a color look different based on body types and coloring. I would also recommend getting things tailored. I don't do this often, but one item that I absolutely have to get tailored is my slacks. At 5'2", most pants are too long (even if they're marked short). This can be done at most drycleaner's.

Don't buy into the myth that in order to be a serious scholar you're not allowed to have a life outside of school.

This whole thing renews my interest in an anti-douchebag internet filter, though. Could someone in one of the CS threads maybe get to work on that?

OK, someone has to say this--this thread seems like a collection of cheesy college application essays. You're already in grad school. Do you still need pads on the back? Here, good job, good job.

You know you did good work and made good choices. Other people know you did good work. But so did virtually everyone else who got into good grad schools. No one is going to look down on you for coming from low-income families or for being first generation students, and if they will--they're just a bunch of jerks.

I grew up in Eastern Europe and came to the U.S. at 19. My parents' combined income at home was less than $1000 a month, for a family of five, which wasn't much more when adjusted for PPP. Yes, I went to a college well below in USNEWS rankings than others I was accepted to, based on financial aid. Yes, I had to work crappy jobs in college. Yes, I studied while some other people went to Bahamas for spring break. Yes, I worked hard academically and missed some fun. But so did numerous other people from way wealthier families. In America, parents' income does not equal kids' income. A lot of my upper-middle class friends had to serve tables, work at supermarkets or for maintenance to pay their college bills, but they never asked for a pad on the back. I am well aware of the outcomes of my graduating class, and it's those that were motivated and worked hard that succeeded, regardless of parents' education or income. In terms of grad school applications, parents rarely ever know enough to be more helpful than, say, thegradcafe.

In my graduate program, the vast majority worked very hard to get here, and still work hard. Grad life is not a lifestyle of luxury for virtually anyone. Things valued in grad school are intelligence, motivation, hard work and humor, not family background.

So, I suppose it was worth answering someone who was unsure about the social environment and attitudes in grad school, but 5 pages of rubbing each other's egos for "overcoming the odds?" I thought it would end on page 2, at most. You've made it, congratulations! Now get over the "disadvantages you had to overcome" and get down to work to continue to succeed.

Haters gonna hate, and everyone else can just get in line to appreciate a strong, intelligent woman with a sense of vision and authenticity. Dressing to impress may not be the *highest* priority in a lab, but it certainly shouldn't detract from anyone's opinion of your value and contributions. When it comes to conferences and meetings and seminars? You're obviously going to be on your game. Yours is a happy sort of story, methinks.

Ohhh, I LOVE Sephora, my heartbeat quickens when I'm in that store. Someone was asking about mineral make-up before, I've used Bare Essentuals for the longest time (I have olive skin tone) but recently they haven't been shipping it to Canada b/c of the offical SPF label on the packaging. I was advised to switch to the Sephora Brand Mineral Make-up and although I was apprehensive at first, I find it to be better than Bare Essentuals. It's not as glowy, and more matte, so I can get away with using a bit more in certain areas where I need it without looking too made up. It's also cheaper and you get more for a lower price. It also has all the perks of BE (i.e. the SPF, etc.).

On topic: I can't believe I didn't find this thread sooner! I have been struggling with this 'issue' for awhile. I'm a feminine typical "city" girl who likes to wear boots in the Fall (I'm from Toronto) along with blazers and blouses layerd with cardigans. I also experiment quite a bit with jewellery (I recently splurged on a Michael Kors goldtone watch). Being in the sciences though, I feel I have had to tone down my feminity in order to fit in. During my MSc, I was the only girl in the lab with guys who wore nothing but tshirts and jeans and I always felt too dressed up (even though by regular standards of professional attire, I was just well-dressed). So, I ended up not wearing A LOT of my clothes just so I didn't appear too girly, or someone who was too interested in her appearance to actually be able to 'do' science.

Suffice it to say, I regret a lot of who I became during the last 2 years. I'm moving to the west coast for a PhD (UBC), and refuse to let other people dictate how I'm going to look or what I'm going to wear. What is the point of having all those nice clothes when I seldom get to wear them. For fellow science female graduate students, wear ALL your nice clothes, and embrace your femininity. People who are going to take you seriously, will do so regardless of the way you dress, and those who are going to judge, aren't worth your time anyway.

Having said that, some of my favourite stores are Club Monaco, Anthropologie, Urban Outfitters and Banana Republic, along with any good thrift store. I don't believe in bargain shopping but rather paying the price for clothes that are staples (and not trendy) and will last me a couple of seasons. For shoes, I generally wear pointy flats in the summer (comfy but dressy enough for work), leather boots in the Fall, and waterproof boots for the snowy/rainy winters (Burberry has some very nice patterned rubber boots for $200 that will last you a long long time!).

You guys laugh and I do too but I seriously want some kind of talisman like this! A friend gave me one of those stretchy bracelets with all the catholic saints images on them. I'm thinking of rechristening each with something grad school related and wearing it.

Eh, I am kind of into men's fashion... I think it makes me more manly for admitting it! Also, the only moments of bonding I could ever find with my sister was when she'd help me with my wardrobe so something rubbed off. I'm going to go for it here.

Here goes:

A pair of black shoes and brown shoes. A black belt and a brown belt- match your shoes and your belt! A blue oxford will go with any tie as well as a nice white oxford. if you aren't wearing ties I like plaids and Gingrahams- buy blues deep earthy reds, purple/maroons --> mix colors that are earthly tones so you don't look depressing in spring or out of place in winter. Add color. You need a wardrobe that can cross through seasons if you are going to be near broke. Ties- University ties are easy enough (the one's with horizontal stripes) these along with solid ties are essential. A nice wool or cotton charcoal grey tie will kill with plaids and other patterned shirts. Yes, you can mix patterned ties and patterned shirts as long as they are different patterns- even Micro striped shirts will go with striped ties if the the size of the stripe on each is clearly different. The only large patterned shirts I like to buy are plaids and gingrahams. Unless you get micro stripe shirts I always feel like a candy-cane. Before I leave this one- You are going to want to learn how to match ties and shirts. Most men look like their tie and shirt combos were bought in one of those cheesy shirt/tie sets you find a JC Penny's. Find a color wheel online and learn how complimentary colors work unless you want the "shades" of whatever your shirt color is look. I'd get bored looking at that every day. Getting ties in your primary colors is a good start for a wardrobe...but a good grey tie will go with a great deal of clothing Dark denim. Straight up black or blue with no cheesy washes. The darker the more professional...they'll looked washed out a bit with age. You can avoid looking old by wearing jeans with a nice blazer and button up. Just make sure these are classic or slim fit for this to work. Blazers/sport coat. I like Browns and Grays. I find these go with nearly everything and look more contemporary than the traditional blue or black. For material I recommend tweed (a nice tweed), corduroy or a light wool. Technically there is a difference between sport jackets and blazers but- that aside just make sure your jacket has 2 buttons and not 3. It should fall slightly below your waist but not drape over your backside. Chinos: Blue, dark gray, brown to play it safe. A nice cardigan or two can be dressed up or down with ties or without ties.

My favorite look: Dark blue jeans with Clark's desert boots a nice dark brown sport coat worn over a sharp plaid. I can fit in with older crowds without looking aged or ridiculous and I can easily hit up a cool trendy bar with my friends who are in their 20's and stand out just enough from the rest as to not fade to the backdrop.

The biggest rule is make sure your clothes fit!!! Jackets should not look like tents, pants should fit your legs and waist without needing a belt to hold them up and shirts should be able to be tucked in without yards of excess fabric draped behind you. Expenses aside, you will never look decent in clothes that don't fit!

For fun:
Don't wear shinny shirts- It isn't 2000.
For Pete's sake don't wear a yellow tie and a blue shirt. It is business school attire 101 or the garb of middle aged overweight men.
Don't wear pink. Most guys can't pull it off. Even if you can it is cliche. Check out purple if you want the same vibe without looking tired.
Pink ties and black shirts are for frat guys.
Don't match everything you are wearing with different shades of the same color. Most guys do this because it is brainless.
Not a huge fan of slacks if you want the the look that strays between proper casual and professional. They just look too dressed up and old IMO.
Repeat above: No pleats- They never looked flattering on anyone other than larger men.
You can buy cool colored socks to look a little more fashionable.
DON'T BUTTON UP YOUR JACKET ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!
Grab a couple handkerchiefs to put in your sport coat/blazer pocket when situations call for you to be dressed up a little more than normal.
You don't have to spend a lot of money on clothes for them to be nice. YOu just have to know what to look for quality wise when you are buying on a budget.
I've seen 200$ shirts that were horrible and some of my favorite shirts were total steals at 20$
Cute ties are a no no and should be saved for when you are a father and your kid doesn't know what to get you for father's day. They always look messy and out of place.
I like Gilt.com for the net if you have a couple months to shop. They do flash sales daily with some really great deals on some top products. Even if you don't buy there it is worth signing up (free) to at the very least see how outfits are put together.
Outlet malls are great. If you are looking for one store to hit, if you had to do it this way, J.Crew is pretty solid in the last few years. The retail spots can be pricey, but the outlet stores are often a steal.

I'll conclude with two things. First, if you have women in your life trust them (mothers, grandmas, sisters, girlfriends or friends) as they will always help you look sharp. Lastly, a good goal for men's wardrobe should be versatility. You are going to drop some money on clothes no matter what and you want to make sure you have shirts you can dress up or dress down, same with pants and sweaters, jackets, etc.

FYI: I could do all of the above, either on Gilt.com alone, or with summer sales for 600$...maybe 5. This is all provided you have none of the above. If you are going to do the Gilt.com thing PM and I'll send you and invite to the site. I think it is still invite only.

All this talk about clothes is not helping my addiction! I haven't bought clothes in 3 weeks...

If you approach your life with a checklist in hand, it's not going to be very satisfying. So, I offer you a list of useful things I have learned from my own experiences dating a successful academic, seeking my own success, and abandoning my former inclinations to accomplish everything according to an arbitrary idea of a schedule.

1. You seem to be overly caught up in the details of right now. He's not an academic superstar pre-grad program, so he'll never be an academic superstar. You're hot shit in your program right now, so you'll always be hot shit. No one's fate is sealed until that dissertation boldly declares the truth to the world: either you're capable of brilliance, originality, creativity, insight, and clear thinking, in whatever combination, or you're not.

2. Your world will not fall apart if you miss the deadline for a few stops on your itinerary. It will never fit together. It will never be perfect. You have no idea what sorts of things may happen a few years down the road. You plan the best you can, and you try to make decisions that will make you happy.

3. When you were accepted a few years ago, the job market in academia was flush with opportunities for grad school applicants. That feast has withered into famine. Programs across the board are having problems supporting their current faculty, let alone taking on new grad students. So, your acceptance to more programs doesn't necessarily make you that much more of a superstar, it just makes you luckier to have applied for PhD programs at a time when the market was more promising.

4. I dated someone who went to schools recognized as the best in the country for high school, college, and his doctorate, which he completed straight through. He immediately became a tenure-track professor at a university with a fantastic reputation in an awesome city, working under a pioneer in his field. I'm sure he's brilliant in his field (it's a little esoteric), but he was not someone who most people would assume was brilliant upon meeting him. They only learned about it when he mentioned his background. He grasped things quickly and thoroughly, but he approached those things as if he were studying them - he was obviously a great student. But he had a difficult time making innovative leaps and intuitive connections. He wasn't interested in literature, he couldn't hold a conversation about music, and if he saw a great movie, you generally had to explain why it moved you and why it's considered so incredible. There wasn't a ton of passion in his pursuits. He couldn't translate the ideas of his field very well into language that wasn't within its jargon. His research, in his own words even, was solid, but it wasn't groundbreaking. After the breakup, friends shared what I had suspected: they found him dull.

In short, being talented academically does not necessarily make you smart. (Now, no one twist that into a reverse syllogism - that doesn't mean that not being talented academically means you are smart. There are smart people in academia, there are morons in academia, there are smart people in the working world, there are morons in the working world.) He's incredibly successful in academia, which I have a huge amount of respect for. We both got our dream jobs early on, and we both do them very well. We both achieved big titles at young ages. His is in the ivory tower; mine isn't. Neither is better or worse. So, basically, what I'm saying is, outside academia, no one cares about the minute nuances of your status as a scholar. It's who you are, how global your intelligence is, whether you have a work ethic, whether you can hold your own in a provocative conversation - not how many papers you publish a year. It makes about as much sense as saying, "I qualified for the Boston Marathon, but my boyfriend only runs a 10-minute mile. How will he cope?" Just cheer each other on and enjoy the fact that you both like to run. (With me and my ex, it was more like, proverbially, he liked to swim and I liked to garden. Neither is better, they're just too different to compare.)

5. If you're worried that he's going to go to a program that isn't his first choice and that you'll feel guilty for any potential fallout (especially if you suspect you may want to break up with him), then make sure he's making his choices for himself, not because it's what he thinks you'll want. That way, clear conscience no matter what he does.

6. Don't be caught up in the rankings. I went to a large public research university, and I was always a little insecure about it. But my ex-bf who went to these fancy schools is the one who taught me that the people in his department, the best in the field, had equal respect for colleagues in the ivy league as professors at more ordinary schools. The reputation wasn't staked on a name, it was staked on the level of the work people there were doing.

7. The problem doesn't seem to be his; it seems to be yours. View it through the filter of your own feelings, not your conjectures about what he feels. It sounds like a cover.

8. The title of this post is telling. "Finding and keeping a male partner?" It sounds like you're still keeping an eye out for something better. If you are, break it off, because the longer you prolong it, the more painful it's going to be.

9. If it's a chore to see him, then you shouldn't be with him. It's not love if you have to convince yourself that it is. It should not feel like a burden to see someone you love. If it is, you're probably making excuses.

10. You have a whole life ahead of you. Don't feel stuck at this age. If you feel constricted, figure out a way to break out of it. You're not trapped. Opportunity doesn't have an expiration date, but rushing could lead to serious mistakes.

11. If the worst problem in your life right now is that people will resent you for how awesome you are, that's pretty badass.

I am sorry but this thread is such a hilarious example of "white people problems." Oh no, your boyfriend won't get his Ph.D. until two years after you! The horror!

My boyfriend has an associates degree and grew up in a trailer park. This has very little to do with how I view him as my partner. He is one of the smartest people I've ever known, he's just not great at structured learning. Amazing self teacher though. He's probably a better learner than me in a lot of ways even if I look better on paper.

One thing I've learned with time is that I care less about the status of my partner than how he treats me. If your priorities are different that's your decision, but don't punish your (apparently very loyal) boyfriend because of it. Either deal with it or leave him and find some bajillionare with 3 doctorates to date.

Here's my male perspective.
I would personally resent being with a spouse who thinks I am a failure.

Co-signing this. I sense resentment and that you don't see him as "good enough" for you. I hope I'm wrong, but only you can answer that. If that is the case though, DTMFA. You're just asking for misery. I can't imagine being in a successful relationship where I didn't fully respect the career and intellect of my partner.



This is crazy, absolutely 100% certified bananas crazy. You would lose respect for someone because they made career moves -- that is, sacrifice -- to follow love? I can't fathom that.

There are very few jobs out there where you can't do meaningful work because of your location. On the flip of that, there are a lot of jobs where you can do good, important, satisfying work just about anywhere. There are, and probably in academia more than other places, rare instances where both people have jobs in which location is crucial. In which case you shouldn't date that person. More often than not, at least one partner can make a move without much sacrifice.

If you really love someone, really want to keep them, both sides will have to sacrifice at various times. If you can't do this without losing respect for your partner, save yourself some heartbreak and run for the hills.

It all depends on how you measure success, really.

I'm finishing my second year of graduate school, and I'll earn my MA this spring. My fiance didn't finish his bachelor's degree. But who cares? He's got a good job as an enlisted Air Force serviceman; he loves his job and he's good at it.

The only thing I do to "keep" him is give him lots of love and affection, communicate about problems, etc...the same things I'd do if he had a PhD too. We both talk about work with each other a little bit, especially when stressed. And, we discuss the future and the issues of thinking about being the "trailing spouse." Right now we're not sure who that's going to be, with me an academic and him a military man. If things stay as they currently are it will be me; if he leaves the military, it will be him. But the most important thing is that we're willing to make it work and be flexible (i.e. I don't necessarily want to be a professor willing to move to Podunk just to teach and he's considering us and a future family when he makes his re-enlistment decisions in August 2012).

We're about 2 to 2.5 hours away from each other. If you want to see your boyfriend often you find ways to make it work. I slave on the weekdays; he comes to see me almost every weekend when he's off (Thursday through Saturday) or I'll go to see him. I arrange my schedule so that I have at least one full day to spend with him with very minimal work. It's doable, you've got to be willing.