LifeOnMars

Just to update my post above, I'm now half way done with the program and have ZERO regrets about not taking on more debt to go to a fancier-sounding school. School has been less exciting/inspiring than I was hoping it would be, and if I had taken 50-70k in loans and was still feeling this way, I'd be pretty damn pissed off about it!

Sure, but here are a whole bunch of caveats first: I'm probably not the best person to talk to because I wasn't super gung ho about getting an MPP degree in the first place. It seemed like it was the best overall option for my interests/goals and I ended up getting into a lot of places, so I felt encouraged and went for it... But I acknowledge that I am kind of an outlier. I have zero interest in become a bureaucrat or crunching data in STATA, while a lot of other people in the program are pretty into that kind of thing. So some of my complaints may be due to a poor choice of degree on my part rather than poor management. Also, I'm generally pretty critical. I took classes with some pretty well-known and highly-regarded professors, and thought they were just kind of okay. So maybe I just have a stick up my ass or something, cuz other people raved about them. I'm also older, and probably less likely to have my mind blown than I was when I was younger... I think that's part of my generally lackluster experience. Finally, I don't know much about how other MPP/MPA programs are run, so maybe Berkeley is still very good by comparison and I'm just not the best fit for this degree. All that being said, a lot of people besides myself had a lot of problems with the way the second semester project (IPA) was run. The selection process left a number of students unhappy, including me, and the accompanying class was mostly useless. A lot of students complained about the class - google docs were made, meetings were had - but I don't know that they resulted in any substantial changes. Many of the issues had apparently already been brought up by the cohort before us without being addressed, which was disappointing to learn given that this is supposed to be a foundational class that brings everything together in a practical setting. I hope they improve it in future years. As for quantitative rigor, which is always harped on by all these MPP programs, Berkeley has a good reputation, and I thought the Quant class was well taught (Econ not as much). But the fact is that you are pretty much guaranteed to pass. So I dunno how rigorous it really is. However, I'm told that it's there if you want it, and there are certainly some profs doing research that is apparently groundbreaking. But I'm not well-equipped to talk about that aspect of the program. The core classes seemed mostly okay to me, it's just not really my thing. Also, in the fall, you have to take 4 hour blocks of quant/econ twice a week - 8 am to noon Mondays and Wednesdays, two hours of each class - which is probably not the best way to schedule that. As far as international stuff goes (my main interest), you mostly have to go outside of GSPP. I knew this going in, so I can't really complain, but its definitely a weakness of the program. They say they're trying to expand to include more internationally focused classes, but in reality they're a ways off from making that very strong within GSPP itself. I am hoping that I'll be able to do more of that in the second year (i.e by taking classes in other departments), but it remains to be seen how well that turns out. Last thing I'll say is that I definitely plan to hit up the law school/business school/other schools and take a lot fewer classes at GSPP next year, as do many of my classmates (not only those who are more internationally oriented). To me, that's telling. Just my honest take.

Just a response to TheGradStudentAdvice's post above..... I'm a current student at GSPP, and though I have several significant complaints about the program and how it was being run for my first year, I have never heard of anyone who had a bad experience with Martha Chavez! I've had little interaction with her myself, but she is pretty much universally loved at GSPP.

For what its worth, I chose to go to Berkeley over HKS/Fletcher/other more expensive schools largely because of the money, and I don't regret it at all. This all may be premature given that I'm only 1 semester in, but I really doubt I'm going to be thinking, "Man, I wish I was in more debt" when I graduate. I think it's more likely that I'll be thinking "Good thing I don't have to get a really high paying job to pay off all these fucking loans; I think I'll go work at XYZ place where I think the work will be really interesting and fulfilling" or even "Why don't I take a few months off to travel/work on some other project that may yield career benefits down the road, since I don't have to worry that much about money?" And anyway, it's definitely still possible for me to get a job at the UN or some other brand-name international organization if I want to go that route (or the federal gov't or world bank or whatever toots your snoot). Choosing schools was a difficult decision and caused me a lot of stress at the time (money, but also pressure from family, location, personal connections, etc), but now that it's all over, I'm glad I went for the cheaper, almost-as-prestigious option. HKS sounds fancy but really costs A LOT more. Fletcher was more well-suited to my international interests, but also cost a lot more. Berkeley also looks pretty damn good on a resume, and there's a ton of international stuff going on outside of the policy school that I've been able to plug into. I figure that I'll have to work a bit harder while in school to make international connections, but that's definitely worth the difference in tuition costs. Also: What could you do with the money you won't be using to pay off your loans? Saving tens of thousands of dollars and avoiding extra pressure/less freedom during some of the prime years of your youth is worth a lot. It's worth more to me than being able to say I went to HKS or whatever, and unless you have your sights set on fairly specific types of positions, the outcomes are not so different among most top schools. Your job prospects will depend a lot on what you do (internships, extracurricular projects, etc), not only on what school you went to. That being said, I am not as "ambitious" as a lot of people with regard to my career goals. In fact, I hate even thinking about the term "career goals," and would rather have an interesting and varied life than a fancy consulting job or whatever. Your willingness to take on loans should depend partly on how much the degree will help you get to where you want to go, of course... But there are many routes to the same destination, and if you don't really know where you're going, it's foolish to spend too much getting there. Just one more perspective....

How do you figure? How would you rank all these schools? I agree that WWS is the most selective MPP/MPA program because of the combination of prestige and scholarships, but HKS is certainly a direct competitor. The US News and World Report rankings in the MPP category put HKS above WWS (#2 and 9, respectively) and the MPA category as well (#3 and 4). It's not a direct comparison since the HKS MPA program is a mid-career program, but I don't know why you would say they're not even in the same league. Harvard definitely has a more prestigious name internationally, and domestically I think they're comparable in terms of prestige/brand.

Yeah, I guess about like that, although what the hell do I know? I haven't even started policy school yet, and am just basing my opinions on flawed rankings and the biases of this forum. To me, Harvard's brand name is kind of uniquely prestigious (though I don't think its worth taking out a 100k in loans), and Princeton is nearly in the same lague and gives a ton of money to the people they accept, which makes it very competitive. In another category, schools like Syracuse of Bloomington are given little love on Grad Cafe, and are not especially prestigious schools in general, but they're both very highly ranked in this field... They're probably quite good academically, since I think those rankings are based on peer review, though I really know nothing about those programs myself. I don't know that there is an exact order of the other schools you listed, though I do think Berkeley and Chicago are slightly more competitive because they're smaller programs than, say, SIPA (despite the Columbia name), which has literally ten times the number of students as Berkeley. People should really choose their school based on the program curriculum, faculty, location, and post-graduation networking potential, as well as cost. The name of the school probably won't matter much after your first job or two after graduation, anyway.

I would second the idea that you need to sell your story well and also have a strong GRE. A kinda crappy GPA from a good but not top-tier school, plus entry level work on the hill and a stint with the peace corps will not get you into top tier programs (HKS, WWS, Berkeley, Chicago, etc) unless you can use the GRE to show your academic ability (despite the low GPA) and use your story to show why you would be a good fit for the program and what your experience could enable you to contribute. Even then, you'd have to really have good essays and strong letters of rec to have a chance. As has been said, you do have good work experience but it's hardly unique among the applicant pool for a school like HKS. Larger programs and slightly less competitive schools like SIPA, Georgetown, CMU, Evans, etc are a safer bet, though funding might not be super forthcoming (and while they may be considered less elite or prestigious, those schools still have high standards). That being said, GPA and test scores are not the deciding factor for pollicy schools. They seem more interested in your dedication to the public interest and your experience in that field. So do your best to present your experiences in a compelling way and knock out the GRE to allay any concerns about your academic unpreparedness, you could still end up getting a good offer from a good school. If I were you, I'd also apply to a mix of schools, some top tier, some second tier. Good luck!

Do any current or former students have any opinion about taking a half time (20 hr/wk) GSI position for one's first semester? I have the opportunity to take one on, but I'm not sure how difficult the quantitative courses will be for me and I'm worried it will be too much. My quant skills/background are probably mediocre compared to many of my fellow students, and those courses may require a good bit of studying on my part. On the other hand, I don't want to miss out on getting a GSI/Reader position of some kind, so maybe I should just take it and bust my ass...? The potential tuition reduction is the primary reason I chose Berkeley over competing schools, so I'd still be looking for a 10 hr/wk position if I don't take this half time one. Thanks!

Where did you decide to attend, coffeebean?

Thanks for the reply! I've defintiely been doing a lot of reflection recently. I do know that I want to go abroad again, and it seems like that would be easier with Fletcher, but Im not sure that the advantage would be great enough to justify the difference in cost. Does anyone with experience going through either an MPP/MPA program or Fletcher who went on to work abroad after school have any advice? Thanks again!

Hello everyone Like many of you, I'm in the final throes of the decision-making process and still have mixed feelings. At this point, I am considering the MPP program at UC Berkeley and the MALD program at Fletcher, and here I am just reaching out to get some other points of view! Thanks for your two cents! If money were no object, I'd likely choose Fletcher because I'd lke to work internationally and Fletcher has a very strong network in a wide range of locations and sectors. I also happen to be from the Bay Area, and would prefer to go to grad school in a new area. However, Berkeley seems to be a great program and would be a LOT cheaper for me. Like 60k cheaper. I could still do some internationally-focused coursework, but few of my peers would be on similar tracks, and the GSPP network is pretty small outside of California and DC (though it seems to be very strong in the Bay). However, a handful of current students I met were internationally-oriented, and they spoke postiviely of the program and seemed optimistic about future job prospects abroad. I've visited both schools. The students seemed very happy with the program at both places, professors were good at both places (a bit better at Berkeley, tbh, but too small of a sample size to really know), curriculum would be fine with me at both places... My visits did not move the needle very far in either direction. Almost none of the current students at Berkeley knew anything abotu Fletcher, and vice-versa, making me think that Public Policy and IR circles have far fewer points of contact than I would have expected. Surprisingly, almost none of the current students at Berkeley knew anything about Fletcher, and vice-versa, making me think that Public Policy and IR circles have far fewer points of contact than I would have expected. I have many interests, and regrettably vague ideas about post-graduation career goals. Yes, the decision would be much easier if I knew exactly where I wanted to end up! But I don't. I can say that I have worked abroad for about 7 years already (maybe this might help make up for the lack of international focus/network at Berkeley?), and would like to continue doing that. On the other hand, I'd also like to be able to work in California at some point in the future. More generally, I would like to have a varied and diverse career, both geographically and in terms of position/subject area. Any thoughts? If someone is on here who has post-grad school experience with this, hearing about your experience and perspective would be really useful! Much appreciated!

I heard back today, in case anyone else is still waiting. It's a moot point by now, but the admissions office is still fucntioning. I got into the MGPS program.

It was never a top pick for me, and I got into other places I'd rather go anyway.

I got into a bunch of top schools (including SIPA and HKS) with a kind of weak quant background, though I may have been helped by an unconventional an interesting background/work experience. I studied history in undergrad, and took no math/econ whatsoever. I scored low 160's on GRE math last fall, but I haven't taken a proper math class since high school (I'm 31 now). Currently I'm taking junior college classes in microeconomics and statistics, which is mostly just for my own benefit (though I did inform the schools when I applied to show them that I could make the effort). I also did a bunch of self-study in economics a couple of years ago out of personal interest (reading and listening to podcasts, etc), and I learned a lot but it was totally informal and on my own time. The point is, you can still get into top schools without a stellar quant background. They seem to focus on a lot of aspects of your application, with work experience that's somehow related to the public interest seemingly pretty important. You certainly don't need to get a masters in economics to get into a MPP/MPA program, and I'm not sure how useful it would be to have both degrees (though I guess this depends on your goals and all that). Get the other aspects of your application together, and choose whichever quant study program seems most interesting/feasible to you. Showing some effort and initiative is a good idea, but tou don't need to worry so much about how it's gonna look to MPP/MPA admissions officers... there is no perfect or foolproof course of action anyway! good luck

I have also not heard back yet (MGPS program). I sent in an incomplete application on December 13, before scholarship deadline, but they didn't tell me it was incomplete until a month or two later (I had inadvertantly attached the same file twice rather than two different files, so they were missing a document). If I remember right, they accept aplication until April 1, so I guess I just got bumped back to that time.... This is all speculation, of course. The fact that others have also not heard back yet shows that it could be something else. In any case, I'm going to withdraw my application so someone on the waitlist can take my spot. You snooze, you lose, LBJ!