sacklunch

Jelly! Congrats, mate!

As far as I know, the theological schools at Toronto are not officially part of U of Toronto in the same way that Oxbridge has individual colleges. That said, I rarely encounter a M* student from a Toronto theological school at a 'TT' American doctoral program (I don't think I have ever met one, though that means nothing...there may be plenty! Compared with the large number of U of Toronto Religion and/or Near Middle Eastern Cultures/NELC-y students...they seem to be everywhere and doing insanely well!). On the other hand, U of Toronto is a TT school world-wide, not just in Canada. I have always thought McGill was second. In our field, also, U of British Columbia is supposed to be very good.

Fair enough, we all are working with our own experiences. I, on the other hand, mentioned faculty in every one of my apps, and had the luxury (luck!) of receiving several top offers. I know a dozen or so doctoral students at other top 10 programs in 'our' field and all of them I am almost certain mentioned faculty in their statements. I think if your SOP demonstrates good fit within the body of your essay, then you might be good to go without naming anyone. I guess, weighing the possibilities of one not gaining admittance to a program, either because of mentioning faculty or just simply not being competitive (based on things well outside your control, to be sure), I would put my money on the latter. Anyways, I suspect if one is competitive and the fit is good, then mentioning specific faculty may not matter at all! So, yes, it seems we agree more than disagree!

^Agreed. Though you should prolly head on over to your Classics Dept. You will soon find out how much Greek you truly know (or for most of us, how little we know!). Having an some broader idea of the 'cultural encyclopedia' of the Greco-Latin world will serve you well in the future, an approach that is (sadly) often completely lost on many NT doctoral students I have been around. :'(

Depends on the program. Ask them.

Depends on the professor. I have heard of some 'high level' exegesis courses in 'Greek' that end up being a second year (Koine) Greek class, while others are much more philologically rigorous. You likely have a good idea of what kind of course the Greek one will be, so use your best judgement. You would be better off taking the English class if the Greek course is more 'Greek light'. There is no sense reviewing future less vivid clauses if your time could be better spent reading secondary literature.

Meh, not mentioning why the school is a good fit is a terrible idea, we would all agree (I hope) and this often entails discussing faculty you hope to work with. Again, we are merely speaking past one another if we are talking about M* vs PhD programs. The former, again, will vary greatly depending on the program (HDS would rather hear about how your post-op transition from male to female has helped your theological interests grow, while an MA in NELC at Harvard would, I imagine, look around the room utterly confused on why your personal life has anything to do with your academic interests). The latter...well, if you apply to a doctoral program, especially in our field where having 3-5 years of masters work is not uncommon...well, good luck on getting in without mentioning faculty of interest. Again, if you are a senior in college and a classics major applying to doctoral programs, sure, it might not matter at that point what particular faculty you'd like to work with, perhaps philosophy students, too, though I would bet even those folks would not imagine turning in an SOP without at least a paragraph addressing faculty interests and how they jive with your own.

What kind of M* programs you are applying will also change the trajectory of your SOP. If you are applying to divinity schools, you will likely fair well (e.g. funding) to be more 'personal' and 'pastoral'. Do some research and play the part.

That is for doctoral programs, here in philosophy. Also, the field of philosophy, while similar in many ways to religion, often has students applying straight from college. I'm not saying this has a huge impact on one's SOP, but the differences are worth keeping in mind.

What level, M* or PhD? The program you are applying will drastically change my answer to the question.

Stanford, easily. I'm in an ancient history subfield (at a top 10 American school), so take my comments with caution, but an American PhD is worth more on the market. You are an exception, being non-American, of course (Americans attending Oxford are cash cows. They pay for the PhD almost always and generally are seen as 'not good enough to get into an American PhD'). Yes, the Oxford degree is shorter. But Stanford will prepare you for a more competitive job market. I have heard this from at least a dozen PhD students/faculty from abroad. The American PhD will train you to teach all kinds of levels, not just graduate courses particular to your subfield. You will come out of the American program able to teach introductory courses in history (and have documented that ability while in the program), which is quite valuable in today's market where the humanities are often only taught as the "general education" courses (again, not relevant for many schools abroad). In the end, they are paying you, quite well all things considering, to study what you enjoy. The job market is abysmal. You may in fact finish the PhD at either school and make less than the PhD stipend. You might as well spend the extra two years learning more, getting paid, and setting yourself up for a decent job (if one can be found at all these days...).

The state school language option may very well serve you better in the end. I have heard too many terrifying stories about divinity school language courses to ever want to head down that route (e.g. many seem to move at about half the pace than a course in a classics dept.). So, yes, I do kind of think it matters where you take the course, assuming you are interested in doing any sort of philological work.

Any 10%+ IPA or Bailey's/Coffee.

Go to UCLA, IMO. They have a world-wide reputation and overall more resources. HUC is a great school, but I think UCLA will get you the job end game. Plus the money is at UCLA. Congrats mate

Of course the money would come from loans. I don't expect most (any?) of us to have thousands of dollars laying around to study religion! Take that for what you will. Yes, people from state schools succeed all the time, many going on to top schools in fact. Do what you can, mates. <3

They sent out offers and waitlists weeks ago. If you haven't heard you are almost certainly rejected. Sorry, mate.

I would choose YDS over almost any other divinity school at this point, notwithstanding large scholarships elsewhere. In 2nd Temple/NT/HB reception they simply have a stunning number of resources between Div, RS, and NELC. If the difference is between 50% and 75% aid, I would still choose YDS. While I don't doubt that PTS has good placement rates for its students, I have encountered way more students in top ten programs that came from YDS than PTS (again, in those subfields). Also, while PTS does have the option for MDiv students to take a more 'academic' route, it is still an MDiv. You may end up doing an MDiv and a Thm/STM to be competitive. And if you are going that route, you might as well do an MAR and an MTS/MA afterwards (so says the secular guy!). If your interests are in both academics and ministry...well, you may have to pick one or the other if you expect to get into a top program after finishing just the MDiv (for example, people with MDiv's at top programs tend to have a ThD/STM, whereas it is more common to see one MAR/MTS or two 'academic' M*'s). I may get some hell for saying this, but our field is the only one where people expect to pursue academics and ministry within the degree. It makes sense why many choose to do so (some might argue you cannot have one without the other...?), but again, this usually necessitates additional time spent on the 'academic' end of things (of course some doctoral programs 'do' both, again though, rarely in 2nd Temple at the 'top' schools). If you want to be competitive at top programs, excluding issues of ministry, go to YDS, earn your MAR, and apply to both doctoral programs and (if you don't get in) MA programs in ancient history and/or classics. Admission requirements for EC are ruthless, in part because of its popularity as a subfield, but more importantly because of the language requirements.

Alien, Sent you a PM. I'm from near where you will be moving.

If you have your heart set on NT, you will need a minimum of two years of Greek. Usually students in NT have a couple years of Hebrew, many German, French, and related ancient languages (Latin, Coptic, Syriac, and so on). Because you have no languages now and that is going to be the biggest factor in getting into a funded PhD, you most certainly will need another M* degree. You might apply to some of the bigger divinity schools, since many of them offer good funding (no idea how this would work since you are moving here with an American wife). As a bridge between another masters, if there is some time between, you might consider doing some of the language work at a community college wherever you happen to live. FWIW, the University of Kansas (in Lawrence) has a really great Classics Dept. I'm fairly sure they offer full rides + stipends for their MA students, though you would def. need Greek/Latin going into the program. Point being, there may be a way to register for the classes as a special student and get some of them out of the way (again, maybe your wife having in state status would give you cheap tuition...?). Lastly I would say, just be open. Your interests will change, keep your options open.

Haha. Really, you don't see why? For master's programs, you might check out BC's new Philosophy and Theology joint MA. BC is a great place to study both, with easy access to all the Boston schools. Oh and no one gives two rips about what you believe, thank the gods.

Alex, all is well; we have all been there/are there. They exist everywhere. I might note that, I think, GC and Dallas, while 'evangelical,' they are also really really good at training people in ancient languages, precisely because they have degrees focused on them (e.g. M* in biblical Greek, etc.). In fields like NT, this sets them apart. I'm not saying students would not get into Yale from those schools without the languages, but I wonder if we might be assigning too much weight to university and/or seminary labels and not to the actual degree preparation? It would be interesting to look at how many students from GC or Dallas get into PhD programs in systematics or ethics? I have no earthly clue. But, while I have met numerous biblical studies doc students from GC and Dallas, I have never met one outside of a textual field.

Makes sense. Though learning the 'theological' words are not so much a problem once you have a good foundation. And as you know, written German tends to follow a set of verbal patterns, while spoken varies much more. Yes the cost of Middlebury is very high! I have thankfully had funding to attend previously, and will this summer, too. I figure if I am going to spend a summer on a language I would rather go 'all out' and try to think (and dream, eventually) like a native.

My comment wasn't addressing US doctorates from seminaries. They have, as you said, different purposes. That is all well and good if that's your bag.

Theo (god, heh), What are your thoughts of 'rapid' immersion language learning? I did Middlebury last summer (German) and will likely do modern Hebrew this summer. The German program progressed my German quite a bit, I think, but we could not hear, read, write anything but German. I don't study linguistics, so I'm curious!

Yeah those scores are average it seems for a masters. I was told by several profs, that you want to be around 85% verbal or above, which I was (my writing was mid 90's). Good luck on that damn test!!!