sanfram

I have met many people in academia or applying to get in who have been profoundly ignorant about the status of the job market. There's also dozens of essays out there by people who say that they didn't know, which you can easily find. And many of the people who claim to know reflect a pre-2008 understanding. Before the financial crisis, it was really, really bad. People wrote pieces declaring the death of the humanities, etc etc. Then, afterwards, the numbers were cut in half. A lot of people seem to understand the old "this is bad" numbers but not the new "this is so much worse" numbers. And this is to say nothing of the potential for people to say they know but assume that they will be the exception rather than part of the rule.
 
What I don't understand is, if everybody knows this information, why do so many people flip out when it's brought up? If everybody is being coolly rational and informed about this, why the heat and anger when the very words "job market" appear on this board? That, I don't understand. If you're all informed, that's great. But we have every reason to believe that there are people who aren't informed, and that's who threads like this are for. If you're not one of them, just move on. Don't click the thread again. I don't understand why people can't accept the fact that some people aren't really aware and may need to hear this. It's not an insult to you if you're one of the ones who do know. When you flip out about people pointing out facts that you acknowledge are facts, it suggests that you haven't 100% come to terms with all this.

Ha! This brought a smile to my face, particularly cuz my memories are so alike. No one ever thought we'd get here. Hell, I barely even graduated high school--graduated with a 1.6 gpa. I spent four years in community college and almost dropped out. And now, Im here?? Pff. Idk about you, but the other matter is that I always feel as if I have to "prove" myself. All these pretentious douche bags walk around talking about how they went to such and such place and have done such and such and had a such and such gpa. They're people who have been groomed and bred to do this since a very young age--2nd and 3rd generation college students. Im a freaking 1st generation HIGH SCHOOL graduate, and BARELY! To sit at the graduate table, I feel as if I have to prove that I belong with them, that Im not trespassing. And it's not just academically; I'm not even of that culture. I'm ghetto as hell; my dialect is off compared to them. And that's part of the challenge of jumping into graduate school as well. When I was pipe dreaming it didnt matter. I didnt care. I was ready to have to constantly prove that I belonged and just didnt get in becuz Im Chicano. But now I mean.....what for?
 
Ayyyy the decisions. I swear dude Im dragging this shit out till April 15th. Anyways, I hope you do well and succeed in where you decide to go. Im pulling for you, buddy.

Some programs will actually be able to provide lists of actual placements-- individual students who got specific jobs in the past X number of years. Usually it's more informal. And, yes, subject to manipulation. 

Just wanna shout out my fellow mixed-race, applyin-to-grad-school-in-the-Humanities Latinos! 
 
To be honest, most of y'all seem to have had much more successful undergrad careers than I had. I took some time off and just worked in a restaurant after getting my BA, then got funded to do my MA at huge state school. Next, I taught abroad for a while and now I've applied to six schools and been accepted to one PhD program I'm really excited about. In short, I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. Yer stats sound pretty good, and I've got some options having accomplished much less early on in school. Plus, going straight into a grad program isn't the only way to do it.  

err i wasn't saying capitalism is postmodernism, but that's an interesting idea. i was saying that this mixed pro-capitalist anti-capitalism seems like a postmodern perspective to me. 
 
what's Das Kapital? is that by Tom Clancy?
 
but yes, i do appreciate your thoughts on the job market, preparing for it in diverse ways, and especially the bit about how to use knowledge our field is creating. 

If you could take a class with a well-respected professor who could write you a letter of rec, it could certainly help. Of course, part of what becoming a well-respected prof means is that you usually don't teach the kind of courses people can just sign up for.
 
Applying for awards or programs or submitting publications to undergraduate journals could be a benefit as well.
 
I think you should really consider a gap  year more for yourself than for your applications, personally. Take the year to explore more interests and have fun.

sup with all the pro-capitalist anticapitalism in this thread? gdamnit, postmodernism...
 
and as for the job discussion, i would gladly enter a PhD program to take a shot at getting a gig in my academic interest area, if i knew i could fall back on something more realistic and sustainable than what i'm doing right now (adjunct) if need be. i appreciate champagne's comment on going into administration, because i've been thinking about that lately. yeah, it's not really what i want to end up doing, but what i really don't want to end up doing is being an adjunct after getting my PhD, or being 100% jobless. but how can i/we be sure? i guess i've never really researched the job market for more administration-type jobs, though i've applied for a few. 
 
in conclusion, fuck capitalism. 

good call. making statements as general as the ones I was making is always problematic. let me rephrase: i think a lot of liberals (those in and outside of academia) tend to have a "business/capitalism=bad" mindset and avoid it, favoring instead to support governmental reforms, rather than seeing business/capitalism as a potential vehicle FOR social change.

I'm not interested in what you think my job is. The fact that you are well aware of the market is not an argument that everyone who is considering grad school in English is aware of the market. This is forum for people to discuss grad student admissions, and this thread concerns professional realities. And there are tons and tons of blog posts and essays out there by people who went to grad school and failed to get a job and now insist that they didn't know the state of the market. I think it's fair and appropriate for people like me to present the facts in order to save future people that pain. As far as my tone and disposition, I don't think there's anything remotely inappropriate about it; I think, instead, the reality that I'm pointing out is hurtful. Because it sucks. If it were up to me, everyone would get a job. But I'll risk temporarily and minimally annoying a couple people to potentially inform others who aren't as aware as you are.
 
Because what you'll find once you're actually inside the institution is that the reality is so bleak. I'm sorry if bringing that up is hurtful.

You do realize that not everyone who applies to grad school is on this website, or even if they are they might not post results (some are just lurkers). Not trying to be rude, just trying to get peeps to chill out. And yes, you're right--the schools don't have any respect for sanity. They get the results out when it works for them. Some of them never even send rejection letters. Also, the two people who got responses from Vanderbilt likely don't know anything more than what their letters tell them. 

If I can jump in while you're on the topic of burning bridges... do programs/faculty tend to hold grudges if you choose another school--even if you haven't already signed with them? "Grudges" might not actually be the best way to put it, but this experience is giving me the opportunity to meet some incredible people in the field, and I'm beginning to worry about offending them if I take another offer. Especially since I might be applying for a position with these programs in a few more years...
 
Any insights here?

It's a forced dichotomy promulgated by New York & Chicago. They fear the power of Detroit Style Pizza.

Jazzy - I nearly downvoted you for your silly comment.

But then I thought, "I can fix ignorance."

Detroit Style Pizza - nom nom nom.

Or Il Mondo in Boston.

ooooooh Il Mondo...

Does anyone know if some schools change app status on weekends? Can I take a break from checking mine every hour?

Hi:
 
I've received a formal offer of admission to a PhD program. I'm still waiting on the other schools to get back to me. Is it appropriate to contact the other schools? If so, how would you go about doing it?

the diff is that duke lit is the coolest program in the universe. 

Well, maybe. But in the good spirit of academia, I'm going to complicate this a bit.
 
First, most of the top 10 of US News do not offer PhD programs in rhet/comp. I suspect this has something to do with the fact that schools we would normally consider "the elite" typically admit students who test out of freshman-year composition, which is the backbone of composition studies and would often be justification for funding a large faculty of rhet/comp scholars and a cohort of rhet/comp graduates--even though a great deal of research in rhet/comp is happening outside FYC. Furthermore, this is why the best programs in rhet/comp are at large, public, land-grant universities that have lots and lots of students who take Eng 101 (or the equivalent), hundreds of miles from the nearest ocean.
 
Second, my R1 institution is holding similar tenure-track searches right now ... but for literature faculty (one American and one Victorian). The candidates I know of come from Yale, UC Berkeley, and Emory.
 
So, I guess what I'm trying to show is that schools with name recognition are different for rhet/comp and literature. And, even if it isn't the only factor that matters ... it still matters.

You finally broke me. I can't stand this forum any longer. Good luck everyone