ghanada

@SPDFG13579 - I think you might have misread the post, I am pretty sure the OP has already been accepted to both programs and needs to decide where to go before April 15th. Congrats by the way on those acceptances! Those are both amazing schools (I got rejected from both trying to do the same things you are doing). From my research into these schools and all the time I spent trying to find potential PIs, I feel like I couldn't find a perfect fit for neuroengineering at UCSD? Did you find people that do exactly what you are interested in? I think at UPenn the only person I could find in neuroeng was Brian Litt. If you found potential advisers at both places, pick the place you think you will have a better relationship with your adviser. That is such a huge part of the PhD and can completely make or break your experience. I'm particularly interested in neural prosthetics and brain-computer interface devices. If you have a similar interest and want to talk about specifics at each school and the profs, send me a message.

like others have said, don't goto your undergrad school unless the difference in programs is huge. If they are more or less equal and it is a comfort thing, you will be far better of going somewhere else. These "rumors" about it being looked down upon to stay entirely in 1 place are pretty true. I have heard this numerous times throughout my collegiate life (11 years now). Also, keep in mind that making connections and networking is a HUGE part of your success after grad school. Think about how much larger your network will be if you move around and meet more people. I did my Masters at a different place than my undergrad and will most likely be going my PhD this fall at completely different place. Moving around has been the best thing for me and I highly recommend it when possible.

Those are both fantastic schools and you really can't make a bad choice here. Have you visited both and talked to potential advisers at each school? Since rankings and prestige are nearly equal, it might be best to just pick the place that you feel you will have a better relationship with your adviser. Also, consider where where in the country you can see yourself ending up. I am from California but I live in Boston now and I can definitely say that on the west coast everyone highly respects Stanford (prob a bit more than MIT) and on the east coast the exact opposite is true with people really respecting MIT. And it would probably also make sense that the place you end up choosing will have more networking and more connecting to the area around it. Finally, the last point I would say is that since you want to stay in academia you will definitely have to do a post-doc. I have heard it is always best to do a post-doc someplace different than your grad school so you should maybe factor in if you think one of these schools would be better for a potential post-doc than the other.

wait it sounds like you are are in the MS program and NOT the PhD program? There is a big difference in entering an MS program, graduating and then entering a PhD program vs entering a PhD program, dropping out early and getting an MS, and then re-applying for other PHD programs. If it is the former case, you have nothing to worry about. It is absolutely acceptable to finish an "intended" Masters, graduate, and then choose to go somewhere else for a PhD. If it is the latter case, then what @anthroDork said is valid. It would not be adviseable to enter a PhD program, quit with just a Masters, and then go into another PhD program.

take the acceptance. I don't think the outlook for funding next year is looking any better than this year so I wouldn't count on other schools having more spots available. Although I am not in the molecular bio field, I was a pre-med major and am going to start a PhD in biomedical engineering in the fall, but I can tell you with certainty that PhD spots are super competitive and the resumes are outstanding. I have talked to a number of people accepted in top schools and their stats are usually like 3.8 gpa, 1400+ GRE, have a masters degree, a few years research, a few publications, excellent letter of recs, etc. My personal stats are actually very similar to that and I was rejected (or haven't heard from) at 16 of 18 places that I applied to. You should be thankful you have gained admission at a place that you genuinely care about if you took the time to apply there and choose them. And I don't think you should blame the school for number of publications. It has always been my belief that if you have an advisor that cares about you and supports you, they won't STOP you from publishing. People that are hard working and highly motivated can publish on their own. If you want to publish 2-3 papers, that is on you and if that is your goal I don't see how a supportive PI can keep you from doing that.

I think you are getting way too caught up in rankings. It isn't like you are comparing top 5 schools to top 100. The difference between top 20 and top 10 is a VERY small margin and at that point it doesn't make sense to base a decision off of rankings. In fact, it might be best to start blocking rankings out of your mind and now start to focus on PI fit, program fit, and funding. It sounds like the only drawback to Program A is that you are only guaranteed funding for 2 years. Have you talked to your PI or other grad students there and found out how likely it is that you will find funding for the rest of your time there? if you got assurance that funding would be there, it sounds like Program A is your best bet. If you are going to stay in academia, your PI and the research you training you do should be your biggest concern. Post-doc positions will be heavily based on who your PI knows and the specialized skills you have in the area you are trying to get into. People care less about what name school you came from and what courses you took. Honestly, it sounds like the quality of each school is the same and the slight differences can change depending on who you talk to or what rankings you look at. So obviously they must all be comparable in terms of name quality. Factor that out, and really think about what will fit you best for the next 5+ years of your life.

I'm assuming you were at the BU BME open house a few days ago? Did that help influence your decision? I do think it is possible to work with professors at Harvard, MIT, MGH, etc. but that they would be more like partial advisers that would probably sit on your thesis committee. In fact, a PhD in my lab at BU has a person like this on his committee. He still works directly in a BU BME lab, but occasionally meets and gets advice from this outside adviser. That is what I imagine what the recruiting professor had in mind. I wouldn't count on working directly at Harvard or MIT for the majority of your time doing the PhD at BU. Your question about which "fit" is more important is incredibly subjective so I'm not surprised you got exactly opposite opinions. I know plenty of people who chose to live in the middle of nowhere in towns they hate in order to goto a better program with a better lab. I also know others that did the opposite and went to better quality of life cities for a lesser program. Only you can decide what is most important for you. But let's also keep in mind you are choosing between 2 top programs in their respective fields so you won't really be sacrificing anything in your future either way. Some things you might also want to consider are what you want to do after your PhD and where you want to be? Academia vs industry. Say you want to goto industry in biotech, going to BU would be an advantage since Boston is a HUGE biotech city and all the professors at BU have lots of connections to biotech industry in Boston. If you want to stay in academia on the west coast, Princeton carries a better universal brand name that everyone knows. I personally think these factors are just as important as lab/research fit if not more important.

Unfortunately I am not in the mechanical/industrial eng field, so I can not speak specifically to those areas. However, I know most the eng fields are similar in terms of gaining admission to a funded PHD. It sounds like you are trying to get into a U.S. school? How did you find your Masters program? Finding a PhD program is very similar. 1) The best way to start looking for PhD programs is to go through the rankings (US News, NRC, etc). Now I don't buy into the rankings and place all my money on them, but they can at least be a starting point of potential colleges to look into. There is a lot of debate about how perfect the rankings are, but even so you can bet a top 10 ranked school is viewed favorably in terms of jobs and prestige. Once you find potential schools just search the department webpages and read about their research and then go through all the professor profiles and lab webpages to find out if their work matches what you want to do. If you find something that looks interesting, keep track of it and add that school to your list. Pay attention to the admissions info and note all the materials and deadlines. 2) You will most likely need to retake the GRE. GRE scores are good for 5 years so last year would have been the last year to use them. 3) It takes a decent amount of time to find a PhD. It takes A LOT of time to do the applications, gather materials, and apply to lots of programs. Depending on how ambitious you are and the quality of schools you apply to, some people only apply to 2-3 schools. Others like me apply to 18-20 schools. Obviously it takes much longer to fill out 20 apps than 2. My biggest concern for your app would be your Masters GPA. Most people do better in a Masters than undergrad, especially since Masters grades tend to be a bit inflated. You will definitely have to address that in your personal statement. I am not sure how good of programs you are shooting for, but you should check the other threads with applicant profiles to get a sense of how you stack up and what schools you could potentially get into. Hope that helps a bit, let me know if you have any other questions.

hmm ok since finances really are pretty even, that is definitely a tough call. I still think UCLA's name is super strong on the west though. When I was on the west coast, whenever I mentioned I went to UCLA everyone was impressed and would give me praise. Whenever I tell someone I went to UCLA on the east coast, nobody cares at all. In fact, just recently I told my employer that I did my undergrad at UCLA and my Masters at Boston University, and she said nothing about UCLA but was like "WOW BU" hahahaha so strange to me. But yeah, if you really want to work on the west, you can't go wrong with UCLA. But at the same time, Columbia is still an ivy and will be well regarded. I just want to make sure you know that UCLA is regarded as highly on the west coast as Columbia is on the east. Yeah, the job situation really does suck in CA. I have known a few engineer undergrads that really struggled to find jobs straight out of school. But like I said before, I think for your industry you will be fine. I don't think it will be EASY to find a job, but I don't think you will be homeless either.

I completely agree with the last post that there is no formula. Getting into a top PhD program is so competitive and it is hard to say exactly what will work. Also, don't discount you undergrad stats. In fact, I would arguably say that your undergrad GPA will weigh more heavily than your Masters GPA. If you want to get into a top 10 program, to be safe I would say your GPA should be above 3.8, your GRE scores should be perfect for quant. (since you are in ECE) and above 75% in the verbal sections. I also think most people would have a few years of research experience and a couple publications. I am also pretty sure for most schools domestic applicants do have an advantage over international.

Don't lose hope! I'm in a completely different area (biomedical engineering), but I had an incredibly low undergrad gpa (2.57) for no reason other than a lack of goals and direction. I did some research work, published a bit, and completed a Masters with a 3.74 gpa. I have been accepted to Columbia for a PhD in the fall. So yeah, anything is possible. I will admit that I heard from some admission POIs that my low undergrad gpa put me in a huge disadvantage and hurt my chances, but I was at least acknowledged and waitlisted in many places. With some perseverance and a little luck, you still have a decent shot!

I'm not in the CS field, I am more in the biomedical engineering/neuroscience area, but I did my undergrad at UCLA and I am contemplating going to Columbia in the fall myself for a PhD so I have a decent idea of both schools. From a Cali perspective, I can definitely say that UCLA is very well respected for computer science/engineering. I know on the east coast UCLA doesn't always garner a lot of prestige like ivys do, but it is pretty much the opposite in cali. In the west, everyone is impressed by UCLA and the general public really only knows the names Harvard and MIT from the east. And most people would have a hard time being able to say where exactly Columbia is located (no joke!). So if staying on the west coast is important to you, I would be inclined to say that UCLA would be a smart move for you. Not only is UCLA very prestigious on the west coast, but I bet your adviser and other networks would have more contacts and influence on the west coast. Are you sure cost is the same for UCLA and Columbia??? I thought out-of-state tuition at UCLA was more like $15-20k/yr and that Columbia is $40k+? Keep in mind that the cost of living around UCLA is relatively high, but NOT NEARLY as high as around Columbia. You can easily find 2 bedroom apts within a 10 min drive to UCLA for <$1500/month. There is no way Columbia is anywhere near that. Even if you had to do 2 years at UCLA vs 1 year at Columbia, it would still seem cheaper overall at UCLA. Finally, your job concern is valid and California sucks right now for jobs. Budgets are really low and even public schools like UCLA are making huge cuts and losing lots of funding. However, I would still imagine computer science/software engineering jobs would still be in decent demand and I would think that you shouldn't have too hard of a time finding a job after school. Granted, you might have to be open to living in either norcal or socal, but there should be some good jobs out there if you look hard enough.

got my acceptance to Columbia!!! Argh, now a tough decision between Columbia and BU =( good luck on the rest of your apps everyone. Also, if anyone is going to the BU visit days tomorrow, I'll see you there!

I have a feeling enochrules meant to say PhD program. I would agree with that. It would only make sense to transfer if you were trying to get into a PhD after, but it wouldn't make sense to get a MEng instead of the M.S. if that is your goal. Basically, MEng programs in general are usually like 1-1.5 years and each school has very specific requirements. It doesn't seem likely that any school would prefer transfer students and they probably won't transfer all your credits, if any at all. It seems like you should just make a choice to either do the RIT program now and finish it or wait and reapply next year for Cornell's MEng. However, keep in mind that Cornell is a very tough eng school to get into and it wouldn't be wise to completely bank on going to Cornell. You should apply to other programs as well.

This is more from my personal view and other fellow grad student views as I have not discussed it with professors, but I believe it is generally frowned upon to leave the PhD program after getting your Masters. I think you are potentially blackballing yourself from academia. It basically just looks like you wanted to come in and get a free Masters and then leave. You waste the school's time and your adviser's time and worst of all you take another potential student's spot that legitimately wants to go there. I would also think that any future schools would be very cautious with your application since you went to another school and left after a Masters. In their eyes, they might think you would just do that again. I would also think your adviser would not write you the best LOR. Imagine if your were the advisor, you are doing work you are proud of, building up good relationships, and then you find out one of your students never wanted to be in your lab to begin with and then they want to leave for another university which basically means they used you to get a Masters, and then they ask you for a letter of rec? Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I am against the attitude of accepting a PhD spot with no intention of finishing. If you like the school you are accepted to and you like the work they are doing, you should go there and be happy. Stop worrying so much about rankings, I know plenty of successful engineers that didn't goto a top 50 school and came out with great jobs and are happy. What matters the most is that you are doing good research with people you like and being productive in publishing. If your accepted school doesn't offer you these things, than you should just take time off, improve your app, and then re-apply to your desired school in the future.

I agree, if all things are equal I don't think anyone would argue that in location Boston vs Troy, Boston handedly wins. I live in Boston and it is a great city and has students everywhere. It is a pretty cool atmosphere for graduate studies. I have met other people from RPI and they tend to not like Troy and the city. However, their campus is supposed to be really beautiful. Hope that helps.

@banana_panda: Dammit, I guess I kinda regret not applying to Vandy! I knew about them and sorta had them floating around on my list, but I was so tired of applying to all the other programs that I just decided to not put in my app, even though it is the only free app....I looked at their website and they really do look like they are doing some great work. My background is in EEG/MEG and fMRI, so I hear you on MRI. It does sound like we have pretty similar interests. My only acceptance is at BU, but I am waiting on a final decision from Columbia. Keep us updated on your final choice, and I am sure future applicants could look back at this thread and learn about Vanderbilt, especially if you end up choosing them over Stanford!

@banana_pand: ohhh what type of imaging? Optical? I have recently been more interested in optical imaging. I have been looking at schools that do neuroengineering and specifically neural prosthetics. So I applied to like 18 of the top 25 schools and really focused on the schools that were good in bme and neuroscience. Wow, I am surprised to hear Vanderbilt is up there with Stanford on your list. Do you particularly like the research that is going on? I heard the campus is nice and that the program is getting stronger, but I personally would have a hard time turning down Stanford. Like everyone I have talked to this year got rejected by Stanford, that is really awesome you got in!

oh BU is on spring break right now, so I have a feeling you guys won't hear anything until next week at the earliest.

@banana_panda That is surprising that you got all the way through the interviews at HST but didn't get an offer. It is so hard to figure out how competitive the interviews are or if they are just trying to make sure you aren't crazy. Do you know where you want to go? It sounds like you have some great options there. @intirb What type of research are you trying to get into? Since you did a Masters in neuroscience are you doing neuroimaging? I too have a background in neuroscience and engineering and I applied to all neuroimaging/neuroengineering POIs. I'm guessing we might have applied to a lot of the same people.

Well I was JUST at Columbia a couple days ago for interviews in the biomedical eng department. I am not as familiar with the robotics field and not even sure which engineering department you applied to, but I can say that Columbia makes a HUGE emphasis on business and consulting. From the bme department, like prob half the PhD grads go into business or consulting after. I also heard from current students that Columbia gets heavily recruited by consulting firms. So if those are most important for you, I don't think you would be disappointed on that end. Other than that, I am not sure how good the school is from an academic standpoint in your field.

Thanks! much appreciated

@mrhr0bin: sorry if this becomes a trend, but would you mind posting up the top 20 for Biomedical Engineering as well?

I agree, this happens all the time. Also, on a personal note, I am attending BU currently for a Masters. And from an objective standpoint, I did my undergrad at a much more top ranked university than BU, but I can say that BU is an excellent grad school and highly underrated all around. I have no idea how the rankings fit within your area of study, but in general, BU is doing good work and has lots of top applicants in many of its programs.

I wouldn't sat your GPA is "low" by any means. In fact I think most of those top schools report average GPAs as around 3.6 anyways. Plus you were doing this at a top school. Don't mind the posts on these forums because obviously only the top people are mostly posting up their ridiculous scores. I'm sure for every one of those posts there are like 5 times as many people with much more mediocre scores that are choosing not to post. Also, your Masters GPA is good, your GRE scores are excellent (prob some of the highest I have seen) and you have lots of research experience. Plus on top of that you are a female which is highly desirable for engineering schools. I'm sure the lack of publications is a slight negative, but in light of all your achievements and awards, I don't think that is a deal breaker. I would just think that the reason you didn't get into Stanford or MIT is that you may not have matched well with a prof or that a POI isn't taking new students. You are really going to have a tough decision on your hands. Those are all such great schools. Why is the HST program only 1 year funding? Are you not guaranteed funding all your years there? That looks like such a great program and really the best of both worlds with Harvard and MIT jointed together. And yeah, I have been checking the results, but the posts have been pretty sporadic and I haven't seen much going on with Brown. I get the feeling that I am in a limbo/waitlist stage with quite a few schools since some people have heard either acceptance or rejections, but I haven't heard anything. Good luck with your last interview, I have been to Seattle a few times and have visited UW. It is a great school and a really cool city.