toby42

The Notre Dame ECS is an excellent program that sounds perfect for you, and it's fully funded (last I checked), but it's also pretty competitive. But's it can't hurt to apply (https://classics.nd.edu/graduate-students/ma-in-early-christian-studies/). Plus, you are interested in PhD, there's a perfect program for your interests as well: https://theology.nd.edu/graduate-programs/ph-d/areas-of-concentration/christianity-and-judaism-in-antiquity/

Thank you both for the input. Good stuff, all of it. To answer, and clarify - First, another member said, "ANE is a notoriously difficult field to break into, especially if you don't have a certain academic pedigree. Many of my friends at "top" schools (Harvard, JHU, Yale, and UChicago) have completed 2 masters degrees before their PhD applications." But that aside, my primary goal in looking for this is not to be competitive (though I may have made it seem that way; my mistake). First, and primarily, if nothing pans out with PhD programs, I thought this would qualify and equip me to teach at the community/jr. college level as my degrees are thus far liberal arts degrees in Biblical studies and Theology and there's not a lot of demand for Bible/Theology courses at that level. Secondly, I thought about adding a History MA degree as I have the time to do something on the side since I may have to wait a bit before going on to my PhD after I'm done. And then, from that, I figured it would also bolster my PhD app. Which leads to: It's not that I'm not willing to move, but that I'm unable to right now and will probably be unable to do so until summer '17. At that point, it's another story. But also, though, I don't want to move just for a second MA in History when one of the places I'm hoping to get my PhD is right here where I am. Thank you both for the tips and advice... I appreciate it. I'll take it all into account.

I'm sort of reposting this from an earlier thread, because I made the title and content more specific than I intended it. So I'm giving it a second shot, but amended. Does anyone know of a school that has a distance learning program in ancient history (preferably with ANE courses)? I'm finishing up my MA at ND right now and was planning on going on to PhD studies... but I thought about adding to my repertoire by adding a History MA degree in a related field to help my chances for getting into a decent PhD program. I was hoping to possibly not relocate (for PhD) for another two years or so and thought I might do this in the meantime. Thanks!

Thank you both for the input. Yes, I do mean one that does not require residency. So yeah, I know this is a long shot, but that's why I came here; ya'll are pretty well-informed in this realm. To answer your other question, There are two primary reasons for my desire to seek an MA in Ancient History. The first was that I thought this might better allow and equip me to teach at the local HS or community college level (if nothing else pans out) as my degrees are thus far liberal arts degrees in Bible and Theology. Ancient history (particularly ANE and its relation to developing cultures) is a fascinating field that dwells largely within the secular realm, thus giving me something other than 'churchy stuff' to present to a local college or HS. The second reason is that I also hoped something like this might help my chances for getting into a decent PhD program (while, yes, informing my studies at the same time). I was hoping to possibly not relocate (for PhD) for another two years or so and thought I might do this in the meantime. But that's even if I get accepted to a PhD program of my choice, which I may not, so this is a bit of a back-up plan as well. Your advice about being kept in the loop by faculty is a good one, thank you. I also always attend the SBL conferences that I'm able to, and the regional ones have thus far included ASOR as well, which is helpful for this field. As for languages, I'm only beginning to expand past Hebrew, and am working (slowly) on Ugaritic and Aramaic. So I'm sort of behind in that area as well, having focused only on Hebrew and Greek thus far. As TMT suggested, though, I may see if I can take an Arabic course before I finish up at ND. 'twould be nice. Thanks again for the advice!

I'm finishing up my MA at ND right now and was planning on going on to PhD studies... but the top-level programs will be residency programs and I may not be able to relocate across country when the time comes. So I thought about adding to my repertoire by adding a History MA degree in a related field (ANE) and would like to see if anyone knows of a school that has a distance learning program in ancient history, preferably ANE-specific. Long shot, I know, but hey... who knows. Thanks.

Yeah, I got the same. They're just being cordial in their rejection of us. A rejection by any other words would stink just as bad... :/

...to have at least made the waitlist. :/

yeah... I actually look forward to telling a couple people I didn't get accepted just so they understand that not everyone who wants to gets to.

Prepare for rant. Initiating in 3... 2... 1... I find it frustrating and disheartening when people say, "Oh, you'll get in." EsPECially when they, so full of wisdom with their great history of experience in applying to grad schools, declare it as if there's NO way you won't. It chaps my hide even more when you explain to them the rigorous process and how hundreds are vying for the same dozen spots and they STILL flippantly dismiss it as a shoe-in. As if anyone can go just because they're 'smart' or a 'nice guy.' I think what miffs me about this is the fact that they're not recognizing how tough it is and that it is a real privilege and honor to be invited to a top-tier program. Then, if you're accepted, they feel justified in their assessment of the situation - "see, I told you" - and it diminishes your accomplishments and the work you put in to get accepted. I don't even know if this makes a bit of sense, but it's a rant, so it's supposed to be incoherent. So there. /rant.

After going through this w/ ND last year (sigh), it was my understanding that the offers of acceptance went out at the same time (possibly waitlist notifications, too), so if we haven't heard, we appear to be SOL. My official rejection notice came at the end of the month. Sooo... I would say (but I'm a pessimist, too) abandon hope all ye who linger here.

Notifications of acceptance are generally sent out first week or two of March. Denials are generally toward the end of the month.

Thank you, that info is just what I was looking for (and expected). Well, fingers crossed for MTS, then! Thanks!

I'm applying to the ND MTS program for '14 but am going to apply for the MA in Theology program as well as a backup. One particular appeal of the MA is that I could stay here in CO (near friends, family, church, etc) and travel out there for part of the summer. So if I get accepted to both, I'll have to make a choice, and there are great benefits to both programs for me. But one of my main reasons for selecting the MTS program (and pursuing grad studies at all) is that it's intended to move one right on toward their doctorate, which is my intention. So the question is... is anyone familiar enough with ND's MA in Theology program to say how it might be received by addcomms for my Ph.D? At this point, the two main places I'm looking at applying is ND and Wheaton. Thanks for the input.

A religion prof, a priest, and a rabbi walk into a bar. The bartendender says, "What is this, a joke?"

You know how something's funny at the time and then you sleep on it, wake up, and realized how dumb it really is? ...yeeeeah.... Ya'll gave some real good advice on the topic that (esp. after I slept on it) really confirmed my suspicions. Canis, you point out the real reason behind finding humor in it - well put. And marXian - most excellent advice to always err on the side of professionalism. Thanks, all.

I'm applying to the ND MTS program and have just finished my SoP (which proved a bugger). Just for kicks, at the end of a fairly serious and detailed SoP, I hit return and typed in, "(Plus, I'm Irish)." I had zero intention of actually including this... until I thought - should I? I still seriously doubt it, but I thought I'd ask! Go Irish, btw.

And how to cite it? Do you think that's absolutely necessary in an SoP?

For the life of me, I can't get over this roadblock, though I've heard the advice a dozen times that you need to "show how you will make a positive contribution to their program" or something like. I'm sorry - and maybe it's just me - but I'm applying to a top-notch school from whom I look to reap the most benefit; how in the world can I contribute to such a successful, well-established, illustrious program only fresh out of my undergrad? And I know that the AdComm knows this, but does anyone know what they're looking for when they say this? Here's a couple ideas I've come up with... am I on the right track? Do you hace anything really good to add to this? Projects that I've begun Unique perspectives My particular areas of study (within the main area, of course) Unremitting and unquenchable persistence. I will not quit. Relentless pursuit of - and demand for - excellence in my work. (both fancy ways of saying that I'm stubborn, I suppose) These are just a few things that come to my mind. Any helpful suggestions are welcome (note: helpful. )

This has GOT to be the number one in all our books. Of course, now that it's January it's only going to get worse! BTW... who's gonna compile the top ten list of the previous 62 pages of material!?

For a practical gauge, here's info from a school that will allow you to test out of beginner courses into more intermediate classes: For Greek you must be familiar with the following: 1. All vocabulary words that occur fifty or more times in the Greek N.T. 2. Conjugation of regular verbs in all three persons, singular and plural 3. Ability to parse all verb forms, regular and irregular 4. Explanation of the uses and meaning of verb tenses and moods (except the optative but including participles and infinitives) and explanation of the various functions of each 5. Ability to decline first and second declension nouns and adjectives 6. Ability to parse third declension noun and adjective forms 7. Identification of various classes of pronouns and their uses 8. Meaning of such details as augments, reduplication, contract verbs, deponent verbs, articles, etc. 9. Ability to translate the Gospel of John or 1 John. For Hebrew: "A student should have a working knowledge of the grammar and vocabulary as described above. In addition, the student should be prepared to reproduce from memory in Hebrew singular and plural form pronominal suffixes on prepositions (e.g., add to the l preposition all forms of the pronominal suffix) and nouns (e.g., add to the noun μyhilø all forms of the pronominal suffix), as well as all forms of the regular verb (e.g,. write out and identify all forms of the Hiphil imperfect of the root lvm). The student should be able to translate into English basic Hebrew vocabulary, including forms that are of varying gender and number, as well as those in the construct state (e.g., ynEB] as "sons of"). Finally, a student should be prepared to fully parse regular verbs, including those with prefixes (such as prepositions and waw consecutives) and object pronoun suffixes." "The student will be given photocopies of passages from Genesis 1, 3, and Deuteronomy 5:1-21 as found in the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. Without the assistance of helps they will be asked to translate specific verses from Hebrew into English, to identify and parse all verbs, and to explain any text critical notes for the verse that may be found in the text critical apparatus at the bottom of the page." I'd say that if you can do all of the above, you can comfortably consider yourself an 'intermediate' student.

The others bring out some good points/suggestions. As for me, I do this in two ways. First, it is my endeavor to be able to read the languages (Gr, Heb, and Latin for me - for now) as seamlessly and fluidly as I read English. So how'd I get so good and English? By reading. I spend every morning reading one chapter of NT Greek, the same chapter at lunch in Latin, and I try to do the same in Hebrew at night (not as consistent there yet). This is extraordinarily beneficial. The second thing I do is make sure I'm always growing and progressing in my learning. I moved from NT Greek to Classical Greek on my own with a nice old grammar from the 30s or 40s and have been 'learning anew.' I have also ventured into Greek readings outside of the NT, primarily the Patristics, but some Greek poetry/plays. If you're beginning Greek, I highly recommend a Greek Parallel/Interlinear for starting out. It'll save you hours in the lexicon! For Hebrew I'm not as consistent, but at church we're going through 1/2 Samuel, so I bring my BHS with me and stay fresh that way. Like I said, though, I'm trying to incorporate that into my daily reading. For Latin, I am teaching myself, but it helps that I'm teaching one of my boys at the same time. I also have Winnie ille Pu (Winnie the Pooh, Latin version!) that I will take up soon when I have the time. Basically, to sum up - read constantly and consistently and expand the level of your expertise with the help of other material. Be always learning.

Well I for one certainly hope that I am wrong. And that the email from the MTS department was wrong. And then the phone conversation about that email was wrong. I certainly hope so... but I'm not holding my breath. Also... before any of ya'll scratch them off the list for sure, I wouldn't be completely dependent on what I found out. I s'pose we really just need to wait for official word before we officially know. Or someone else could try and verify...

I don't hold it against them. I don't deserve a single thing. Those that got in deserved it. It is what it is.

This was for the MTS. I didn't feel to bad at all about the ECS - I know how competative that is. And yeah, the MTS is, too (200+ applicants), but seriously? I couldn't even get into the MTS program? Sheesh.

I must say, though, that I am amazed (/skeptical?) that no one else on this thread got accepted... ?? *Shrug*