Advice needed: get a Phd or second master's?

[mary109]

Hi all,

I'll be graduating in May with an MSSW and I plan to return to school but I'm struggling deciding which degree to pursue. 

While I enjoy the clinical aspect of social work and the ability to give therapy, I realized that I'm really interested in advocating for disadvantaged populations on a macro/systematic level. I want to study social systems and policies and create interventions and solutions to problems in the real world, internationally and domestically. I'm really passionate about social justice and I'm looking into Master's of Public Policy programs and considering applying. But I don't know the likelihood of me being accepted as I have no formal training in policy and my bachelor's is in psychology. Which brings me to the next part of my question...

Having studied it in undergrad, I'm really passionate about psychology and I can't shake the idea of wanting to further my studies in the field and receive the highest degree in psychology. I've been looking into Phd Psychology programs that have a developmental focus. I'm specifically interested in studying human behavior and childhood/adolescent development and using this understanding to inform interventions. 

I know  Georgetown has a dual MPP/PhD Psychology program which sounds ideal for me. While Georgetown's is renowned for the policy program, I don't know about the quality of their PhD Psychology program. But I cannot find many other dual degree programs like this. (I have been looking into NYU's Psychology and Social Intervention program).  Also I don't have much research experience, and I know this is a priority in PhD Psychology programs, so if I decide to apply to Phd Psych programs, I would first have to get research experience under my belt first. 

So that's my dilemma. 

Do I get a Master's Public Policy/MPP? Or a PhD in Psychology? Or try to do both? 

Any advice, direction, or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

Edited January 13, 2018 by mary109

[Clinapp2017]

These are interesting macro goals that you have. In a perfect world, what would be your ideal career title/employer? This might help guide your search and any advice that I and others might give to you.

 

From a policy perspective, I know plenty of MSWs from my work with a major non-profit during my undergrad that do macro-level advocacy for a niche area of medicine and research. What allowed them to get into their advocacy perspective, however, was 20+ years of applied clinical practice. Frankly, as someone who could see myself going into advocacy/non-profit work after a 25+ year in academia or private practice, I think we need more people in advocacy who have in-the-trenches experience and offer that expertise as an advocacy perspective. Book-knowledge really can only get you so far in identifying problems and advocating for solutions, in my humble opinion. 

[mary109]

1 hour ago, Clinapp2017 said:

These are interesting macro goals that you have. In a perfect world, what would be your ideal career title/employer? This might help guide your search and any advice that I and others might give to you.

From a policy perspective, I know plenty of MSWs from my work with a major non-profit during my undergrad that do macro-level advocacy for a niche area of medicine and research. What allowed them to get into their advocacy perspective, however, was 20+ years of applied clinical practice. Frankly, as someone who could see myself going into advocacy/non-profit work after a 25+ year in academia or private practice, I think we need more people in advocacy who have in-the-trenches experience and offer that expertise as an advocacy perspective. Book-knowledge really can only get you so far in identifying problems and advocating for solutions, in my humble opinion. 

I read my post again and realized my goals sound a little vague.

Ideally, I would want to work with nonprofits/ngo's and government agencies to create programs that will solve social problems and address the needs of disadvantaged people and communities. Topics/issues of interest are trauma, mental health, poverty, and education. It is a long-time dream/goal of mine to start a nonprofit one day. I initially considered doing a MPP because I realized that there needs to be informed policy making and reformation on many social issues that I'm passionate about. 

I'm still doing my research/thinking things through and your advice/post is very helpful, especially the bolded above - great advice. Thanks! 

[eternallyephemeral]

I don't see why you need to do either, especially right now.

There are organizations using a behavioral science (i.e., psychological) approach to policy interventions right now. Combined with the fact that an MPP is basically an MBA for the non-profit world, it is best combined with practical experience before the degree for maximum benefit.

I don't see why you can't work in a place that solves social problems and creates programs to do this, especially when those topics of interest are within your background already.

The combination of social work and psychology already addresses two of the major fields in policy/social issues.

 

Have you applied to positions? Have you even identified specific places you would work? Until you have tried that, how do you know what program you need, or whether now is the time to go into a program?

I can tell you that a PhD will not be focusing on policy-level change, especially in psychology. You won't get more in the details than by doing a PhD, which doesn't seem related to your goals at all. I'd highly recommend getting into the workforce and making an impact that way before looking at more school.

[rising_star]

On 1/13/2018 at 3:52 PM, mary109 said:

Ideally, I would want to work with nonprofits/ngo's and government agencies to create programs that will solve social problems and address the needs of disadvantaged people and communities. Topics/issues of interest are trauma, mental health, poverty, and education. It is a long-time dream/goal of mine to start a nonprofit one day. I initially considered doing a MPP because I realized that there needs to be informed policy making and reformation on many social issues that I'm passionate about. 

I've read this a few times and, like @eternallyephemeral, can't figure out why you'd want/need another master's or a PhD to do this. There are plenty of people who go into macro/advocacy work after doing a MSW so, why not be one of them? Were I in your shoes, I would seek those folks out and do some informational interviews with them to learn about their career path, see how they got where they are, and see what they think you should be doing to best prepare yourself. 

Also, you're not graduating until May, right? So why not start volunteering, doing an internship, or working part-time in these areas so you can get your foot in the door and prepare yourself for a job after graduation? Given your interests, you may also want to look into things like HealthCorps (is that still around?) or AmeriCorps as post-graduation opportunities to gain experience. Once you've got years of experience, you may then decide to do something like a MBA or Master's in Nonprofit Management if your ultimate goal is to start a nonprofit of your own.

[Oshawott]

On 1/13/2018 at 12:56 PM, mary109 said:

I know  Georgetown has a dual MPP/PhD Psychology program which sounds ideal for me. While Georgetown's is renowned for the policy program, I don't know about the quality of their PhD Psychology program. But I cannot find many other dual degree programs like this. (I have been looking into NYU's Psychology and Social Intervention program).  Also I don't have much research experience, and I know this is a priority in PhD Psychology programs, so if I decide to apply to Phd Psych programs, I would first have to get research experience under my belt first. 

Princeton has a joint degree in Psychology and Social Policy and I really like some of their psych prof's work in the area. I can't really asses how good Princeton's social policy program is (but I'm gonna make a random guess and say its of sufficient quality) but if your focus is a good psych PhD program with a public policy slant then this sounds like a good fit if you want an advanced degree in those areas.

Overall though, I agree with @eternallyephemeral and @rising_star's assessment that the PhD path probably isn't the best one for you based on your goals.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Oshawott

[StartingtheProcess83298353]

Johns Hopkins has a certificate program in Mental Health Public Policy; I believe it's free for grad students there (so you could do a Ph.D. at the same time as long as you can manage both).

[youngqueerliving]

A PhD in psychology will not help you operate on a macro level. Even in counseling or community psychology programs, which are more systemically-oriented than clinical programs, for example, you're still operating on the level of the individual but by placing that individual in their context. A graduate degree in public policy may be useful, but I feel like a MSW is equally as useful if not more so. You may need additional education surrounding policy issues, but to throw tens of thousands of dollars at that goals seems wasteful.