NDSEG 2019

[lambda]

I haven't heard about my app either...hopefully that means it's by office and not that I got rejected! 

[pchem2018]

What offices did you apply for? Sounds like the person who got it applied for ARO, I applied to ONR. I haven’t heard anything yet either.

[DiscoTech]

6 minutes ago, pchem2018 said:

What offices did you apply for? Sounds like the person who got it applied for ARO, I applied to ONR. I haven’t heard anything yet either.

Mine was ARO too. However, a friend in Aero also got the award too. Naively, I am assuming his was AFOSR.

 

BTW, last year they did not send out rejection notifications to a lot (most?) people. Those ranked 69-200 got an e-mail saying there was not enough funding, but a lot of us outside the top 200 did not hear a peep. Had to call them.

Edited March 31, 2019 by DiscoTech
More info

[NeoOzymandias]

FWIW I applied to ARO and haven't heard anything...meanwhile another student I know did receive the fellowship from ARO.

 

So maybe they did send all the acceptances out. Or maybe not. It's STI-TEC, you just can't tell! Especially when their website is still advertising application status updates in "early April".

[Epigenetics]

12 hours ago, lambda said:

I haven't heard either way about my application...so maybe by office?

Very possible! My area was biosciences and I applied to the ARO if that gives any useful information. It also wouldn't surprise me if NDSEG (given how few fellowships there were last year and presumably this year?) is waiting for people to decline to send more offers. So all may not be lost!

[jjvamd47]

They said in the application confirmation that rejections are sent out after 'award acceptance'  (probably indeed waiting for people to decline before more offers are sent out). It also seems like last year the results sort of trickled in over a week or so. I think probably the top candidates got their offers already and the rest of us have to wait longer to hear back.

[lambda]

1 hour ago, jjvamd47 said:

They said in the application confirmation that rejections are sent out after 'award acceptance'  (probably indeed waiting for people to decline before more offers are sent out). It also seems like last year the results sort of trickled in over a week or so. I think probably the top candidates got their offers already and the rest of us have to wait longer to hear back.

Ugh...good to know though.

[Entangled Phantoms]

3 hours ago, lambda said:

Ugh...good to know though.

I doubt anyone has any idea what STI-TEC has in store this year. This is their second time doing this and the first time was ... well .... not smooth. Just for fun, here is a recap of last year.

1. 69 fellowships awarded and on April 12-13 acceptances go out.

2. Folks in the top 200 but not selected got this message:

• "As you know, your application was chosen to move forward to the final step in the process: the DoD Panel Review. We regret to inform you that you were not selected as part of the 2018 class. This year we planned to award roughly 200 fellowships and only 69 were selected due to the budget. You were in the top 200 and have been placed on the alternates selection list for the fellowship. This does not guarantee that you will be awarded the fellowship but serves as notice of  your ranking and your potential in the unlikely event that the DoD will select additional awardees."

3. Folks were naturally like, "WTF?" I mean, DoD has just gotten a big budget increase. Some grad cafers called their representatives in Congress:

• "I called my congressional representative + senators, and they sent me an email of a congressional staffer Jain Thapa who supposedly works with budgeting on DoD matters. He responded to my email saying he would follow up next week."

4. Grad cafers also know how to do their research.

• "Reached out to the government affairs office at my university. Very odd they cut number of fellowships awarded given that NDSEG specifically is a subprogram funded through the AF University Research Initiative account, which had a $12M increase over FY17."

5. STI-TEC apparently hears from Congressional staffers that there are a lot of pissed off people out there. Puts out a tweet (which they later deleted) suggesting that negative comments might lead to NDSEG getting shut down.

• Archived tweet - https://mobile.twitter.com/Andrew_S_Rosen/status/986273914019106818/photo/

6. Guess what? There were no budget cuts! STI-TEC was forced to send us this:

Dear 2018 NDSEG Fellowship Applicants,

 We are writing to you today to retract a part of our statement regarding the selection of the 2018 Fellowship class. In our email, we reported budget cuts as the basis for the number of fellowships awarded. We would like to provide clarification on the allocation of funding for the program.

We incorrectly reported that the National Defense Science & Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) program has experienced budget cuts; however, the Department of Defense (DoD) increased the spending on the National Defense Science & Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) fellowship program compared to the previous fiscal year. In an effort to ensure that the program remains competitive with similar fellowships, the Department made programmatic changes to the FY17 NDSEG program that increased the cost per student.  This increase in costs per fellow has, in turn, reduced the number of fellowships available. Moving forward, the Department intends to review the programmatic changes instituted during the FY17 fellowship class to properly balance the competitiveness of the program against the overall number of students that are trained in areas of defense relevance

We apologize for any confusion that our statement may have caused. We appreciate your understanding and your support of the program.

-The NDSEG Fellowship Team

As it turns out, the cost per student increased soooo much that they went from 200 fellowship to 69!

7. Meanwhile, a lot of students outside the top 200 heard nothing. 

8. Professors at Caltech and UCLA went to town on STI-TEC on twitter because their students heard nothing.

• https://mobile.twitter.com/sarah_reisman/status/985645455051665408
• https://mobile.twitter.com/ArmaniLab/status/985630862631780352

 

 

 

Moral of the story - until STI-TEC establishes a track record of doing things in a professional manner, do not count on things working like they would at most other fellowship programs. Good luck to folks waiting on results. May you all have better luck than I did last year. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Entangled Phantoms
typos

[bfc]

In case any of this is useful...

I got an acceptance e-mail at 3:05pm Eastern time on March 29. I applied under ONR w/ electrical engineering as my discipline. In my online application portal, there's now a "Fellowship Acceptance Form" under "Your tasks," and the e-mail indicates that this needs to be submitted no later than April 15...so maybe they'll send out another batch after then...?

[CM8]

Yea, I called and was told that they send notifications as the come in from DoD groups. Some will hear sooner than later. They don’t wait to send them all out at once like other fellowships.

[lambda]

23 minutes ago, CM8 said:

Yea, I called and was told that they send notifications as the come in from DoD groups. Some will hear sooner than later. They don’t wait to send them all out at once like other fellowships.

Like ARO and other major offices, or by the BAA section? Was that made clear? 

[CM8]

No, she really did not want to tell me that part. I was trying to get it out of her. However, she just said the DoD groups has to give them names and they'll notify applicants as they come in. 

[lambda]

3 minutes ago, CM8 said:

No, she really did not want to tell me that part. I was trying to get it out of her. However, she just said the DoD groups has to give them names and they'll notify applicants as they come in. 

Thanks for trying! Guess it's just time to wait...

[Ryleigh Moore]

1 hour ago, CM8 said:

Yea, I called and was told that they send notifications as the come in from DoD groups. Some will hear sooner than later. They don’t wait to send them all out at once like other fellowships.

Thank you for doing this. Maybe all hope isn't lost then! Keeping my fingers crossed for all of us who haven't heard.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Ryleigh Moore

[hw2014]

Applied for funding in computational fluids doing unsteady aerodynamics under Army BAA.  First time applying, I'm an undergrad.  I understand NDSEG is notorious for being a mess to deal with.  I have yet to hear anything; no updates to application page or emails.  Really, really could use word from them as I have very good offers on the table, and knowing where I stand with NDSEG would make my decision so much easier.  Honestly I feel like applying for NDSEG as an undergrad was a mistake because they take so long to get back to you.  No decision yet and I have 15 days to accept/decline assistantships...not worth the stress.

[caha9192]

Just when I started going through the five stages of grief (fellowship rejection) hope is given again by the staggered acceptances! I applied to AFRL; will be anxiously waiting until all the acceptances are announced.

[Epigenetics]

My guess from these responses is that the first set of acceptances across funding offices are out. However, NSF hasn't come out and it seems that (despite NDSEG having better funding/benefits) most people who are awarded both choose NSF based on prestige/recognition of the awards. Given how few awards they gave out last year and the likelihood it is on part this year, they may be waiting for people to decline to send out more awards. So it doesn't seem all is lost but it does appear the first wave went out. My letter from NDSEG didn't mention my office, so it seems like a general funding notification for the program. Good luck!

[punch_it_chewie]

On 3/29/2019 at 7:32 PM, Epigenetics said:

Awesome! Was that because you took NSF instead? NSF hasn't come out so I'll have to see on that end but it appears that most consider it more prestigious even though NDSEG has seemingly better benefits. Was that your experience?

 

On 3/30/2019 at 9:51 AM, DiscoTech said:

Would be interested in the answer to this too, although GRFP results are not out yet. I didn't apply for the GRFP last year because the stipend is essentially what I am getting now. However, after last year's application season (I applied for NDSEG only and got dinged), my advisor was incredulous that I would apply for the NDSEG and not the NSF. It was news to him that NDSEG offers more money and conference support (maybe this was not always true?). Regardless, he said the NSF is the "better opportunity" whatever that means. So why is there this bias against NDSEG? 

Long time user, but given my professional ties, I opted for anonymity. So I once had this dilemma (NDSEG v NSF). In my case, the choice was easy because the money was almost exactly the same. However, had the NDSEG paid $0-10k more, I still would have taken the NSF. Here is why.

The reputations/brand of fellowship programs, not unlike the universities you are applying to, have been built based on their history and performance. In terms of raw prestige, at least in science and engineering, nothing beats Hertz. If you turn down the NSF or the NDSEG for the Hertz, not a single professor will ask - "why did you turn down the NSF/NDSEG?" However, turning down the Hertz or the NSF for the NDSEG will get you stares from faculty. You have to remember that the Hertz and NSF were around when faculty were younglings and their perception of these programs has been shaped by that. This is not a great reason, but I did not want people to look at my CV and wonder - "hmmm .... everything looks good, but why didn't she get the NSF?"

So I got the NDSEG when ASEE was running the show, but it sounds like the new sheriff has not done anything to boost the profile of this program other than offer a couple thousand more dollars. I suspect the reason ASEE lost their contract was because they could not boost the profile of the fellowship. To their credit, their approach had merit . By maximizing the number of fellowships offered, you can boost the chances the tomorrow's superstars were once NDSEG fellows. However, the NDSEG (200 fellows per year) was tiny compared to the NSF (1,500-2,000 fellows per year) and could not compete with Hertz. I mean look at the people on this list - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz_Foundation. This approach was simply never going to work unless DoD put more money into the program.

The new sheriff has tried to turn this into a Hertz-type fellowship (although it sounds like there is some skimming of funds too) - fewer awardees and additional benefits relative to the NSF. A run-of-the-mill defense contractor is simply not equipped to develop a highly regarded fellowship. This a matter of both vision and resources. Well, mostly about vision. Contractors are excellent at two things - winning DoD contracts and managing relationships to avoid losing contracts. Sadly, neither talent correlates well with actual performance. A foundation/academic non-profit with some experience in this area would have been the right steward. Boosting the stipend/benefits is definitely a good move. But then to go ahead and have what looked like a disastrous roll out as they did last year just quashed any chance of a quick brand reboot. To circle back to my point about reputation - as a poster above notes, some high profile professors criticized the running of the program publicly. Do you think any of them will recommend their students choose NDSEG over Hertz/NSF?

I think the DoD rightly has aspirations to compete with the Hertz and the NSF (and the Ford, Google, and other fellowships). But, as usual, it seems to think hiring a contractor and telling them what they want will fix the program. If you are thinking along reputation/brand name lines, the question you have to ask yourself is what you think the current steward of the program will be able to do for the program in 5-10 years - when people are looking at your CV. Given what a disaster the SMART program has turned into (completely different structure and contractor) and the recent management of the NDSEG, I am not terribly confident that it will rival the NSF in prestige anytime soon. I really think DoD should put more money behind the program if they are serious about competing with NSF/Hertz, but I suspect saying this to DoD is a great way to lose the bid for the contract. 

Any discussion of reputation and brand is fraught with biases. Mine are based on when I applied and what professors' impressions were. Things might have changed.  

Cliff Notes:
1. If you have any interest in academia/government, IMO Hertz >> NSF > IBM/Google/Ford > NDSEG >>>>>> SMART
2. If you have no interest in academia/government, just take whatever fellowship offers the most money. No one in industry cares very much about these signalling cues. 
3. External funding is awesome. Do not obsess too much about one over the other. But if you are, hope this helped.
4. Good luck!!! ?

[Epigenetics]

3 hours ago, punch_it_chewie said:

Cliff Notes:
1. If you have any interest in academia/government, IMO Hertz >> NSF > IBM/Google/Ford > NDSEG >>>>>> SMART
2. If you have no interest in academia/government, just take whatever fellowship offers the most money. No one in industry cares very much about these signalling cues. 
3. External funding is awesome. Do not obsess too much about one over the other. But if you are, hope this helped.
4. Good luck!!! ? 

This is incredibly interesting! I wish I had known about Hertz as a G1, I would've taken the shot there. I think it's so prestigious that few people know those who have it or have it themselves, so everyone focuses their effort toward NSF.

The other problem is that NDSEG has allocated more money, but at least in prestige fields like biomedical research you're already guaranteed more money than the fellowship anyway, so the program covers the difference. So NDSEG has decreased its reach while providing benefits that only change it's appeal (like the travel benefits).

I will also say I applied for NDSEG literally on a whim, I think I edited my NSF statements up/down in a day to fit NDSEG and threw it in. My previous PI I worked for as a research tech basically told me she'd never heard of anyone getting NDSEG and throw it in but don't worry about it. I have grad classmates who has an exceptional resume and didn't apply for NDSEG cause he didn't see the point.

I really appreciate the context and find it very interesting to have this insight! Here's hoping I actually have any need to consider it haha.

[mse123]

those who have received this so far this year, are you all currently undergrads? Maybe they have only released awards to those that need to pick a graduate institution still while they figure out the rest?

[Epigenetics]

Just now, mse123 said:

those who have received this so far this year, are you all currently undergrads? Maybe they have only released awards to those that need to pick a graduate institution still while they figure out the rest? 

No I'm a second year graduate student.

[md@]

"National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship

This application is for the 2019 class for the National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship Program.

Update: April 2, 2019

Notifications for awards of the NDSEG Fellowship for the 2019 class will start the first week in April. Anyone who was not selected will receive notification following award acceptance from those selected. We anticipate the status of all applications by the end of April.

The email address used to create and log into this account will receive the status updates."

Did you guys see this in the portal? To me, it definitely seems like not even the entirety of the "first wave" even went out yet...
 

See my application

Edited April 2, 2019 by md@

[Ryleigh Moore]

1 hour ago, md@ said:

"National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship

This application is for the 2019 class for the National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship Program.

Update: April 2, 2019

Notifications for awards of the NDSEG Fellowship for the 2019 class will start the first week in April. Anyone who was not selected will receive notification following award acceptance from those selected. We anticipate the status of all applications by the end of April.

The email address used to create and log into this account will receive the status updates."

Did you guys see this in the portal? To me, it definitely seems like not even the entirety of the "first wave" even went out yet...
 

See my application

Yay more hope!  Seems like they must be still sending them out as they trickle in to me.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Ryleigh Moore

[Ryleigh Moore]

56 minutes ago, md@ said:

"National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship

This application is for the 2019 class for the National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship Program.

Update: April 2, 2019

Notifications for awards of the NDSEG Fellowship for the 2019 class will start the first week in April. Anyone who was not selected will receive notification following award acceptance from those selected. We anticipate the status of all applications by the end of April.

The email address used to create and log into this account will receive the status updates."

Did you guys see this in the portal? To me, it definitely seems like not even the entirety of the "first wave" even went out yet...
 

See my application

Where did you find this? I can't seem to find it...

 

[jjvamd47]

17 minutes ago, Ryleigh Moore said:

Where did you find this? I can't seem to find it...

 

I just end up on the portal that does not say specifically for 2019 with no update? Are we getting trolled lol