Will people wait until April 15 for phd programs?

[Riotbeard]

<br />I visited nine programs in Boston, LA, Bay Area, Chicago, Nashville, and Atlanta while working full time and going to school. All before February let alone April. No excuses.<br />

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I had an open weekend in mid March, and one school I went to did not send out acceptances till the 3rd week of march. If you have a job you can't take the day off at the drop of a hat so you might have to wait a few week to take the trip. Both my trips were re-imbursed for history visits, and I even got a counter offer at a campus visit. Visiting is a smart thing, and not every school lets you know before February.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Riotbeard

[georgica2]

I think the waitlists are being drawn out longer this year with fewer overall admits going around, so many folks have offers but are waiting for programs they prefer to admit them off the waitlist. Wouldn't be surprised to see the active acceptance period stretch well into May (which is pretty unusual in my field).

As for the poster with two offers who had to do research and visit the programs, are you KIDDING me? Do your homework before you apply! How do you even know you "fit" with the program? Or quit being a nervous nelly and pull the trigger already! Last year I applied to 12 programs and I knew good and well the various funding levels at each program and which I would prefer. I would venture to say most thoughtful individuals do the same.

I'm assuming this is a response to my post. I did plenty of research before applying, and only applied to schools where I felt I would be a great fit. Every school I applied to is a top program in my field with excellent professors working in my specific area of interest and in locations I found liveable. I had one clear-cut top choice (I was rejected) but other than that, I didn't spend too much time "ranking" my choices -- I didn't see any reason to debate whether I'd rather attend Princeton, Yale, or NYU since there was a good chance I could be rejected by all of them. I knew I'd be happy at any one of the schools I applied to, but they were all very different programs with various pros/cons, and once I knew what my options were, I started comparing them specifically. Considering I'm still waiting to hear back about funding at one program, I don't see any reason why I should make a decision before feeling like I have all the information I need (and, by the way, I notified the programs that I'm no longer considering.) Just because you managed to visit schools across America and made your decision months ago doesn't have any bearing on my decision, or anyone else's. I don't need an "excuse" -- we're obligated to notify programs by April 15th, not before, and I don't feel remotely apologetic about taking the time I was allotted so that I can walk into a program in September feeling like it was the absolute right choice.

And yes, I do work full time, which meant that I didn't have time to do extensive visits at all the schools I applied to. Once I found out where I was accepted, I was able to do longer visits, hang around campus, attend some lectures/public events, get a feel for the program and the university. I certainly had no intention of making a decision based on a brief campus tour back in October. I'd guess that most "thoughtful" individuals actually take the time to "think" about their options before "pulling the trigger."

[so47]

I don't know that poster's subject area, but in some fields that is completely standard procedure. For example, in my field, physics, you do a certain amount of research before applying, but unless you only get into one program or one program substantially higher ranked than the others, you go on recruiting visit weekends with all the other prospective grad students in that department (paid for by the department). Students who have two or more even remotely comparable offers are generally regarded as insane if they don't go on visits and do more research post-acceptance. It's not insane at all to do research and visits after being accepted (if you're in a field where it's normal). There are just different expectations in different fields. I went on visit weekends at each of the four programs to which I was accepted. But that's completely normal in physics (and some other fields).

It was the same for my area as well (Chemistry). I had done plenty of research before, but the programs I got accepted to all had recruiting weekends. Not only did these give an opportunity to get a feel for the ever important "fit," but it also showed that a lot of the research going on with each professor is a bit different from what they have listed on the web. They tend to discuss older (i.e. published) work on the web, and the newer site is kept a bit closer to the vest to avoid people infringing on their work. I never could have known exactly what they are working on before I visited. Also, I got soooo much information from talking to current grad students, they told me things I never would have thought about in the decision making process. It is way better to visit on an official department weekend than just driving up on your own.

So overall, I think that was very close-minded of PhdWannabee. Obviously you are in a different type of program, perhaps one that doesn't offer these department weekends. Most people in my field wait until they are accepted to visit, since the department then pays for it and you actually get to interact with the people you would be working with. You can't assume that your way is the only way. One could say you wasted lots of time and money visiting schools that you didn't get into, on the other side of the coin.

[shakespearebro]

Seems like there are a few operating principles here. As long as you try to honor all of them, you're on the right track. By all means, take the time you need. You shouldn't feel guilty waiting until April 15. That's the time allotted to you. All of us on waitlists just have to live with that. The balancing principle, though, is to try to keep only one offer at a time. Each time you get an offer, re-evaluate and let one of them go. It's only fair to the waitlisters and to the departments trying to match people up with their funding. Now the complexity comes in when you get a "half-offer". You are admitted, but are waiting on funding. Or you have funding, but only partial, etc. In those situations just do the best you can. As for the visits and incorporating them into your multiple offers, well, I think the principle should be (but isn't necessarily) that the in-person visit is really just a tie-breaker. You've already done enough research to know you'd be WILLING to go there and that it would be a good fit. If you're struggling between two essentially similar offers, then the in-person visit is the tie breaker.

Well, that's my decision matrix anyway.

[someoneoutthere]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one in the waitlist boat! I've been waitlisted at what is now my top choice program and I'm so anxious!

One question I have for all of you: can we assume that, if we haven't gotten a rejection email, the school has not yet reached its target cohort size, so there's still hope for getting off the waitlist?

[Postbib Yeshuist]

Yes, people most definitely will (or did) wait until April 15th on Ph.D. programs, and it is perfectly reasonable to do so. Few programs require as much of an investment academically and personally as PhD programs. To "rush" into a decision could have devastating consequences. Furthermore, some are accepted at one institution and wait-listed at another. By waiting until April 15, they are maximizing the possibility that the wait-list will come through and they can decline their backup. To be honest. I'm a little frustrated when those on wait lists expect those who have been accepted to decide "early." I have many choice words that I could say, but that would probably be inappropriate. If someone did well enough to be accepted, they should have every chance they can to be sure it's the right decision. It is extremely selfish to "expect" them to decide any sooner. And FWIW, I say this as someone who was accepted to my first choice off the wait list. Not for one second did I begrudge those ahead of me the time they were given to decide.

[Postbib Yeshuist]

One question I have for all of you: can we assume that, if we haven't gotten a rejection email, the school has not yet reached its target cohort size, so there's still hope for getting off the waitlist?

Not necessarily. A call or e-mail would be the only "sure" way to know if you're still on the wait list or not.

[jblsmith]

i've been wondering about the April 15th deadline myself.... I've been accepted into two programs with funding, and I am waiting to hear from one last school, the best program out of these three. I've already decided between the two I've been accepted to (let's say I've chosen school #2), but I don't want to officially accept my offer from school #2 until I've heard from school #3 (does the way I'm explaining this make sense?). BUT what if I don't hear from school #3 until AFTER the April 15 deadline? I will have had to accept my offer at school #2, but it's possible (and by no means certain) that I would rather go to school 3. Would I then be stuck with school 2 even though I didn't hear from school 3 until after the deadline?

i don't want to ask school #2 for an extension, because honestly I'm so grateful just to have been admitted that I don't want to push my luck! School number 2 is a great (and easier, more convenient to my life choice) for me, but school #3 is a much better program, so I wouldn't be able to just let it go without a thought.

This is exactly the situation I'm in, well almost. I've been accepted to 1 school with funding as well as another, more prestigous school, where I'm wait-listed for funding. I don't want to have to accept the offer at School 1 only to find out on April 16th that I have funding to School 2. Sent the graduate administrator an email relating my predicament, hopefully they'll take it into consideration and I'll get good news before the deadline.

[neuropsych76]

I'd hate to wait until that long to make a decision but it could be possible. I did turn one school I knew I wasn't interested in anymore, but there are some schools (though probably rejections) I haven't heard from. I'd like to have all my rejections official before I decide

[Amalia222]

I have been wait listed at 2 PhD programs. Have you heard of people wait until April 15 to decide on a PhD program? I know many people are making their decisions right now. It would suck if they waited until April 15 to officially accept or decline.

I feel bad for people on the wait list, but here it is March 12 and I still haven't heard from the majority of my programs. I don't want to accept the one offer I have until I know whether or not I got in anywhere else. I want to make sure I make the right choice, even though my heart is already kind of set on the school I got the acceptance for. I just don't want to jump the gun, and then regret it later. So if the %&*@# schools would hurry up and notify, I could decide already!!!!!! :-)

[NadaJ]

I've been thinking about this over the weekend. I am a "waitlister". I only applied to one school/program because of the very small niche of my area of interest. I thought I would accept right away if I were offered a spot in the PhD program, but I don't think I would. It really is a lot to consider--picking up and moving my family, being a full time student, living as a poor student...so, even if I were to be accepted, even now, I would have to really mull it over, and I only applied to one program. So, while I am sitting here, waiting to hear back if I am off the wait list, I totally understand those with offers now. Unfortunately, this is the way the game is set up, and us wait listers just need to...well...wait.

[Eisenmann]

This is exactly the situation I'm in, well almost. I've been accepted to 1 school with funding as well as another, more prestigous school, where I'm wait-listed for funding. I don't want to have to accept the offer at School 1 only to find out on April 16th that I have funding to School 2. Sent the graduate administrator an email relating my predicament, hopefully they'll take it into consideration and I'll get good news before the deadline.

I am in the exact same situation. Let us know how it goes. I am thinking about just saying yes to everyone...

[Lyra Belacqua]

I feel bad for people on the wait list, but here it is March 12 and I still haven't heard from the majority of my programs. I don't want to accept the one offer I have until I know whether or not I got in anywhere else. I want to make sure I make the right choice, even though my heart is already kind of set on the school I got the acceptance for. I just don't want to jump the gun, and then regret it later. So if the %&*@# schools would hurry up and notify, I could decide already!!!!!! :-)

I feel sorry for waitlisted people too, but I'm waiting to decide because I still need to visit one of the schools I got into. I was supposed to visit last week, but due to a blizzard I couldn't make it out there. If not for the weather, I probably would have decided by now…

[isa_cl]

This is a tough time for all of us applicants...I am throwing in my two cents because I think this was briefly voiced in some of the above messages, but bottom line is that we are ALL playing a waiting game in some sense, whether it's with acceptances, rejections, or wait-lists. While the pressure is off somewhat for those who have an acceptance, there's still the question of wait lists and funding and while April 15th seems like so far away from now, in reality it's just a few weeks. Three weeks, in relation to a decision that is literally life-changing, for the short-term time of the program and all of the ensuing professional and personal effects, is really not that long.

Personally, I would have LOVED to have made a decision by now, unfortunately, I am still waiting on a definite decision from two more programs. So, I imagine that in many cases, where people do have an accept but are just waiting until all the cards are dealt (just because I am that kind of person), would love to move forward with the process but cannot because of the program taking their sweet time to get back to everyone.

I don't think this is really helpful or answers your question, because my answer is "No, I won't necessarily wait until April 15th, but right now, it's out of my hands when I will have the information I need to make a decision. When I do have that information, I will make a decision as quickly as possible, both for my sake and the sake of the whole PhD applicant program community!"

Take care and good luck!

[OR_Dan]

Yep, I guess we are all in the same kind of boat. I have already declined from those programs where I am certain I will not attend. But I am waiting it out before accepting at one and shuting the door on another one pending funding issues. To all who are on a waitlist I promise I will choose as soon as I have confirmation on funding from these two programs.

[Quazifuji]

As for the poster with two offers who had to do research and visit the programs, are you KIDDING me? Do your homework before you apply! How do you even know you "fit" with the program? Or quit being a nervous nelly and pull the trigger already! Last year I applied to 12 programs and I knew good and well the various funding levels at each program and which I would prefer. I would venture to say most thoughtful individuals do the same.

You can learn a lot about a school by visiting it. I've visited six schools, and nearly every visit affected my perspective on the school considerably. Some professors give a very different impression when you talk to them in person and when you just look over their website or email them, and you can also get a feel for the general environment and community of the school, which is almost impossible to see just through pre-application research, when you visit. I'm still deciding between a few schools, and the main factors in my decision are almost all things that I found out about the schools through visits (specific professors I got along with well, aspects of the community I liked). The actual details about the programs I could find out by just researching the schools are barely even factors in my decision anymore.

[finalcountdown]

I second that! I was almost done with my decision of choosing between two schools by April when school no 2 came up with a revised offer. They doubled the funding! So, while I hate to think about the person on the waitlist at both these schools, it's prudent for me to wait and watch and not take a hasty step till April 15.

As someone who is still staring at 2 offer letters trying to sort out which one to accept, the answer is yes. I'm not doing it to be cruel to those on the waitlist (I'm guessing the same goes for all of the other people who are still deciding at the last minute) but it's a big decision, and since I didn't get into my absolute top choice, I want to make sure that I've fully weighed the options. Remember, many programs only notified accepted applicants in mid-March -- I got my last decision about a month ago, during which time I had to find a time to visit schools, research the programs, weigh the pros/cons of each program, etc. This all takes time. 4 weeks blows by pretty quickly, especially when you're trying to make a huge life-altering choice like where to spend the next 5-7 years. Also, crucially, many programs don't make funding decisions until April, which means that applicants are waiting until the last minute to see whether or not they're going to be able to even afford to go to a program.

[Xero735]

Ya but it is April 9th. Funding decisions have already gone out. You have a list of schools. You read about said schools. Make a decision. It isn't that life altering. You are getting a degree. You don't want to weigh it lightly but grad school is simply learning how to learn. These people that are waiting to the last minute are simply being selfish and indecisive.

[Lyra Belacqua]

You can learn a lot about a school by visiting it. I've visited six schools, and nearly every visit affected my perspective on the school considerably. Some professors give a very different impression when you talk to them in person and when you just look over their website or email them, and you can also get a feel for the general environment and community of the school, which is almost impossible to see just through pre-application research, when you visit. I'm still deciding between a few schools, and the main factors in my decision are almost all things that I found out about the schools through visits (specific professors I got along with well, aspects of the community I liked). The actual details about the programs I could find out by just researching the schools are barely even factors in my decision anymore.

Yeah, also, I had to visit before making a decision because one school gave me my funding information in person when I visited, rather than emailing it to me earlier, and that was obviously their preference (otherwise, they might have sent it to me on the day I was supposed to be there before I had to reschedule). So that's a pretty important thing that I had no way of knowing about until the visit actually happened.

[adstatus]

So it' April 13th and no word from any of my wait lists. I have one offer in hand, but no funding (but could open up if an offer gets declined), and I'm wait listed at 4 other programs. One program says they have offers outstanding, but they don't expect that they will be accepted, which would then open their wait list, which I'm at the top of. Two other programs I'm not sure where I stand on the wait list. The final program I'm at or near the top of their wait list and they have one offer outstanding.

I think I wouldn't care about this dragging on past April 15th so much if I hadn't busted my ass to get all of my applications in to meet the early deadlines in December!

Oh well. For those holding on to offers, good luck in your decisions and I hope the ones you decline are ones I'm waiting for! Can't wait until all this falls out and everyone can post where they're going in the fall!

[NadaJ]

I think I wouldn't care about this dragging on past April 15th so much if I hadn't busted my ass to get all of my applications in to meet the early deadlines in December!

This is what gets me too. It's been such a long process. I feel drained.

[elduderino]

People are going to hate me for this but, hey, it's honest. When I applied to MA programs and again to PhD programs, I decided on April 15 both times. Both times there were two schools that I was having trouble deciding between and I had already turned down my other offers (to hopefully help someone on the waitlist for either admissions or funding). While I realize that it sucks for someone on the waitlist at the schools, I needed to wait that long before I was sure of my decision. And, even after I'd decided for the PhD, I was petrified that I'd made the wrong decision and almost switched back (there were extenuating circumstances that would've allowed me to do so). So, yes, I waited until April 15 (and we're talking 7pm EDT on April 15) to make a decision on PhD programs.

Im in that situations right now, down to two schools and I keep going back and forth. What ended up convincing you one way or another?

[adstatus]

This is what gets me too. It's been such a long process. I feel drained.

I've been pretty soured by the whole process. It is what it is and I don't begrudge anyone who wants to hold out until the last minute to make sure they are making the best decision. Hell, I'd love to be in their shoes. The thing is, the lack of any information really puts your life on hold.

The kids keep asking, "Dad, where are we going to go to school next year? Are we going to sell our house? Are we going to live in an apartment? blah blah blah" and I keep having to tell them that I don't have an f-ing clue!

I really expected that I would know where I was headed, if anywhere, by the end of March. I never anticipated sitting here on April 13th with my thumb up my rear still not knowing WHERE or IF I'm going to get a PhD.

----sigh---- sorry for the rant.

[gradschoolheaven]

The answers is...it depends! People will reply earlier or later depending on their individual circumstances. Generally speaking, applicants who have heard back definitely ("accepted" or "rejected") from schools will tend to make decisions well before April 15. Applicants who are still on waiting lists, or have only been accepted or rejected to programs in the last week, may take until the very last minute to make a decision. The week of April 15 is a tumultuous one, with a great deal of activity on waiting lists. Further, some schools make staggered decisions with respect to admissions and funding. In some cases, applicants may be admitted to graduate programs say, in March, but learn about their funding decision until close to April 15. I hope this helps and that this will be a week for celebration.

Edited April 14, 2011 by gradschoolheaven

[rising_star]

Im in that situations right now, down to two schools and I keep going back and forth. What ended up convincing you one way or another?

I decided by going with the person that I thought would best position me for the career I wanted. In the process, I got slightly less money.