Teachers College Columbia vs. Boston University vs. Emerson - Communication Sciences & Disorders

[psychslp]

Hi everyone! Does anyone have any insight into any of these schools specifically for their CSD programs? I am an out of field applicant and still need to complete most of the prereqs. I know TC and Emerson both have summer programs to complete them. I most likely want to work in a school, early intervention, or a private practice with kids. All of these schools would end up being about the same cost, with Emerson a bit cheaper but not by much. Let me know if you have any insights, or just if you've been accepted and may be attending ? I'm so excited to meet everyone!

[speech517]

Have people heard back from Emerson? 

[psychslp]

@speech517 I heard from Emerson March 8th, but I think some people have heard since then, so they're probably still sending out decisions! 

[felicity_white17]

I'm also deciding between TC and Emerson and am also an out-of-fielder. Thanks for starting this thread - hoping to also get some insight!

[psychslp]

@felicity_white17 Definitely let me know where you decide!! Will you be at either of the open houses? I'd love to talk about the schools and about being in either of these programs coming from other majors 

[felicity_white17]

@psychslp i'll be at the TC open house! I can't make it to the Emerson one. Will you be able to make either? 

[psychslp]

@felicity_white17 just messaged you!

[socalslp]

I am also an out of field applicant and I am picking between Teachers College or BU! Does anyone know if out of field applicants would be able to finish Teachers College's program in 2 years?

[psychslp]

@socalslp If you haven't completed the prereqs (like I haven't), then you can do them during the summer prior to starting through their online prereq program or you can find them elsewhere, and then you'll finish it in 2 years and one extra summer. If you have the prereqs already, you can definitely do it in two. 

[Bookworm111]

If the choice is  just pre-requisites,  I would probably look at the easiest option. Columbia has a reputation for being rigorous as an Ivy league, but if it offers what you are looking for, I am sure it would be totally worth it for the experience and the reputation.

If you are asking about graduate studies, I would consider your long term goals. The choice is less important if you are working for a school than private practice. In private practice, clients are more likely to judge you by the school you went to.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Bookworm111

[bibliophile222]

4 hours ago, Bookworm111 said:

If you are asking about graduate studies, I would consider your long term goals. The choice is less important if you are working for a school than private practice. In private practice, clients are more likely to judge you by the school you went to.

Have you heard this from others, or do you have personal experience? I've never heard/read/thought of this before. I can see that clients may be impressed by an Ivy, but other than that how are they to know which SLP programs are highly ranked? I'm guessing most of them aren't checking the US News rankings (which are suspect to begin with)! Also, they wouldn't even see your diploma unless you're in a private practice (or maybe outpatient?) so I don't think that's a big enough factor to ultimately decide someone's school choice.

In some of your previous posts you've also stressed the importance of program reputation, which I'm curious about because all the advice I've read/gotten to date from seasoned SLPs contradicts that viewpoint--they ALL have said to just go with the cheapest program as long as it's accredited, good Praxis pass rate, etc, and that employers don't care where you went to school. Do you have any personal experiences with this you'd be willing to share to confirm your position?

[Bookworm111]

2 hours ago, bibliophile222 said:

Have you heard this from others, or do you have personal experience? I've never heard/read/thought of this before. I can see that clients may be impressed by an Ivy, but other than that how are they to know which SLP programs are highly ranked? I'm guessing most of them aren't checking the US News rankings (which are suspect to begin with)! Also, they wouldn't even see your diploma unless you're in a private practice (or maybe outpatient?) so I don't think that's a big enough factor to ultimately decide someone's school choice.

In some of your previous posts you've also stressed the importance of program reputation, which I'm curious about because all the advice I've read/gotten to date from seasoned SLPs contradicts that viewpoint--they ALL have said to just go with the cheapest program as long as it's accredited, good Praxis pass rate, etc, and that employers don't care where you went to school. Do you have any personal experiences with this you'd be willing to share to confirm your position?

When parents send their kids to the school SLP,  they do so because the speech pathologist likely works at the school and that is the choice they have. In private practice, the name of your university is displayed very publicly -  on insurance websites, medical ratings and many places on the internet. I live in a competitive city where there is a ton of choice amongst medical professionals and where many people I know will check out where for example a doctor or dermatologist studied before making the appointment - as an example a Harvard doctor would get preference over a doctor who qualified at a small lesser known university. So this may be specific to my experiences, but it is very real - as superficial as it is, people can easily try to judge your competence by where you studied. I agree with you that most people won't know SLP rankings but unfortunately that's the superficiality of it - educated people do tend to know the top ranked universities in the country though. Most people I know personally have attended top universities or are highly educated (at least 50% of my friends are Ivy league graduates),  so this is entirely based on personal experience (which may be a 'snooty' one) and others may have different experiences and opinions which I respect. 

Statistically there is a general correlation between how much you earn and the school you went to (I say general because there are always exceptions) and I've read many articles to support that  - I've just pulled off one randomly from the internet -the first chart shows the earnings of an Ivy league vs 'all schools'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/14/this-chart-shows-why-parents-push-their-kids-so-hard-to-get-into-ivy-league-schools/?utm_term=.a16d6fea3225

Edited March 20, 2019 by Bookworm111

[bibliophile222]

2 hours ago, Bookworm111 said:

When parents send their kids to the school SLP,  they do so because the speech pathologist likely works at the school and that is the choice they have. In private practice, the name of your university is displayed very publicly -  on insurance websites, medical ratings and many places on the internet. I live in a competitive city where there is a ton of choice amongst medical professionals and where many people I know will check out where for example a doctor or dermatologist studied before making the appointment - as an example a Harvard doctor would get preference over a doctor who qualified at a small lesser known university. So this may be specific to my experiences, but it is very real - as superficial as it is, people can easily try to judge your competence by where you studied. I agree with you that most people won't know SLP rankings but unfortunately that's the superficiality of it - educated people do tend to know the top ranked universities in the country though. Most people I know personally have attended top universities or are highly educated (at least 50% of my friends are Ivy league graduates),  so this is entirely based on personal experience (which may be a 'snooty' one) and others may have different experiences and opinions which I respect. 

Statistically there is a general correlation between how much you earn and the school you went to (I say general because there are always exceptions) and I've read many articles to support that  - I've just pulled off one randomly from the internet -the first chart shows the earnings of an Ivy league vs 'all schools'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/14/this-chart-shows-why-parents-push-their-kids-so-hard-to-get-into-ivy-league-schools/?utm_term=.a16d6fea3225

Hmm, interesting. I totally see how in certain circles it really can matter, like these competitive private practices you mention. For people looking to get these kinds of jobs that is definitely valuable information to know.

I still think, though that for the majority of future SLPs school rank won't matter. Unfortunately, most of the country is NOT highly educated--in addition, there is a general lack of health literacy. People without as much money and education (i.e., most people who need our services) may be far less likely to investigate healthcare professionals in this way. Different cultural norms may also come into play: for instance, some cultures regard any healthcare or education professional as a respected expert, so these populations may be far less likely to doubt our expertise. Also, even in the medical realm there are times when I feel this would be far less likely to happen: if a patient is in acute care following a stroke, and their SLP is THE SLP, what can the family do, move them to a new hospital just because the SLP isn't from an Ivy? I imagine it's happened, but I don't think it's happened nearly enough for prospective students to be worried about their job opportunities.

Another economic point: if a student spends a fortune on a top-ranked school, the overwhelming amount of student loan debt they end up with may cancel out any additional earnings they got due to their schooling. If student A makes 5,000 a year less than student B, but student A has 20,000 in loans and student B has 120,000, it would take at least 20 years for the costs to even out. Student B makes more, but they may also postpone buying a house, having a family, or saving for retirement. If someone gets a great financial aid deal to an Ivy then that's another question entirely, but funding is sadly far too difficult to come by at most SLP grad programs.

I also think that the article you cited doesn't provide the whole picture. Although it would be an extreme exaggeration to say that only wealthy students attend Ivies, it is also safe to say that much of the student populations come from well-educated families who also tend to have more money, since education is correlated with socioeconomic status. These families may be legacies with connections to the school and other legacies, or they may own companies with connections to a number of prestigious jobs. Families with generations of wealth and education tend to have more power and networking ability, thus securing higher-paying jobs. The school obviously assists them in that, but assigning only one variable (the school) as the reason someone makes more money is missing the effect of other variables. (I'm going to blame my research methods class on my obsession with variables...)

I'm sorry if this got really long and rant-y. I promise I'm not trying to be argumentative! I think you raise some really good points about what may matter in very specific settings, I just don't believe that it can be generalized to all or even most SLP settings. I also don't want to dis highly-ranked schools in any way, since they do tend to provide a great education, but I don't want anyone to spend a fortune when they don't need to because they're worried about their job prospects. Unless they really want to, of course! ? 

[Rezzy S.]

6 hours ago, bibliophile222 said:

Have you heard this from others, or do you have personal experience? I've never heard/read/thought of this before. I can see that clients may be impressed by an Ivy, but other than that how are they to know which SLP programs are highly ranked? I'm guessing most of them aren't checking the US News rankings (which are suspect to begin with)! Also, they wouldn't even see your diploma unless you're in a private practice (or maybe outpatient?) so I don't think that's a big enough factor to ultimately decide someone's school choice.

In some of your previous posts you've also stressed the importance of program reputation, which I'm curious about because all the advice I've read/gotten to date from seasoned SLPs contradicts that viewpoint--they ALL have said to just go with the cheapest program as long as it's accredited, good Praxis pass rate, etc, and that employers don't care where you went to school. Do you have any personal experiences with this you'd be willing to share to confirm your position?

This aligns with what I've heard from quite a few SLPs as well. I know that we have a big shortage of SLPs so it opens a lot of options. I think our field particularly bends the rules of better university, better earning potential because of this shortage. Plus, as you said, the average person is probably not all that interested in the US News rankings. I think what can get you ahead in the job market is great externships/experience, interviewing well, and being good at networking.

[psychslp]

Does anyone know ( @Rezzy S., @bibliophile222, @Bookworm111) whether the rankings have any value in terms of how good of a program it is? In other words, might a high ranking mean that the program has better research or clinical opportunities, better professors, or better connections to hospitals or something of that sort that would actually affect one's experience being in the program? I'm wondering because BU is technically ranked higher than TC and Emerson, so I'm wondering whether there is any merit to this scale and whether I would then be going to a better program with better, valuable experiences by going to BU, or is this not really the case? I'm sure BU is great and all the schools are great, but I'm wondering if BU's high ranking is as valuable as the list makes it seem. I don't really know how they make these rankings. Thanks so much for your help!!

[bibliophile222]

3 minutes ago, psychslp said:

Does anyone know ( @Rezzy S., @bibliophile222, @Bookworm111) whether the rankings have any value in terms of how good of a program it is? In other words, might a high ranking mean that the program has better research or clinical opportunities, better professors, or better connections to hospitals or something of that sort that would actually affect one's experience being in the program? I'm wondering because BU is technically ranked higher than TC and Emerson, so I'm wondering whether there is any merit to this scale and whether I would then be going to a better program with better, valuable experiences by going to BU, or is this not really the case? I'm sure BU is great and all the schools are great, but I'm wondering if BU's high ranking is as valuable as the list makes it seem. I don't really know how they make these rankings. Thanks so much for your help!!

From what I understand of the rankings, they're done by faculty at other schools. It stands to reason that the more they know about a school the more likely they will be to rank it highly. Faculty also tend to know more about established, research-oriented institutions because they read research articles by the faculty in these schools. If you check the lowest-ranked schools for program completion rates, Praxis pass rates, and employment rates most of them have just as good numbers as the top schools. This indicates to me that the lower-ranked schools are still doing everything they need to do to make their students good clinicians,  they're just not research powerhouses.

Now, I do think that top programs tend to have good connections to placements because they're well-established. The Boston area, for instance, has several highly ranked schools and also many great placement opportunities affiliated with these schools. However, I dont think going to a lower-ranked school automatically  means that there aren't good placements. 

Also, as far as you're concerned, I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever whether you go to a school that's #12 versus #20 or 30. It's more important that the program have the specialty track, electives, unique opportunities, etc that best fulfill your goals.

[psychslp]

@bibliophile222 Thank you so much! That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that. It is extremely helpful, and I really appreciate it!!

[Rezzy S.]

I think rankings are helpful if you are interested in research and learning from those doing the cutting edge research (which is no small thing). However, in California, our highest ranked program is 23 with most well over 100, but most of the programs I’ve seen are excellent, there just isn’t the funding to do research and have top notch facilities. The programs, especially state schools, are extremely committed to evidence-based practive and making you a well-rounded, prepared professional. Plus there are amazing externships at great hospitals etc. because of the large population. My point is, I really do think it comes down to research as to how a school is ranked.